Lubricants

[Alastair]

OK--In the spirit of education--What are the opposing properties of (Thin Grade, 9010/20) watch-oil and motor-oil?

 

[jdm]

11 minutes ago, Alastair said:

OK--In the spirit of education--What are the opposing properties of (Thin Grade, 9010/20) watch-oil and motor-oil?

Some just off my mind:

watch oil: restricted temperature range. Motor oil - the opposite

watch oil: to forms lubrication between hars stones and metal film - watch oil - meta to metal only

motor oil: resist pressure via oil pump:- watch oil: no pumping pressure

motor oil: contain all kinds of additive like anti-foam, cleaning, detergent for combustion residue. watch oil, nothing of that is needed.

I'm sure anyone can come up with with some 30 more and then the most important: the product is designed and tested by the maker and moto (or watch) maker. Or do we want to have a laugh all together at the next watch fair, see you at the Mobil booth.

 

 

Edited July 28, 2016 by jdm

[Alastair]

Any good sources for the Dr Tillwich range of lubricants? Ive  got one or two of this range but was looking for the LGN (TS5500) for metal/stone synthetic they do.

[beastomaniac]

I'm going to do a full service for ETA 2896 movement and the service documentation says that the oils needed are:

• D5 (OK - I will use HP1300)
• 9501?
• 9010 (OK - I will use 9010)
• 941/9415 (OK - I will use 9415)
• Treated (ETA)?

Other oils I have available at the moment are 9020 and 8200. What does "Treated (ETA)" mean, can I use 9020 or 8200 as a substitute for 9501 and/or "Treated (ETA)"?

[vinn3]

welcome to the forum..  sounds like a good project,  good luck.  vinn

[canthus]

Moebius 9501 is a synthetic oil based grease for parts normally greased.  Mark uses this grease in his videos.

Treat ETA may mean treated with Epilame (Moebius Fixodrop).

[rogart63]

I use 8300 instead of 9501. 9501 is synthetic and way expensive. I think 8200 is a little to oily. 8300 is more like grease? 

Have some 9501 but tend to use 8300 most of the time. 

Edited August 16, 2016 by rogart63

[beastomaniac]

I was just thinking that could I use 8200 instead of 9501...

[clockboy]

The treated ETA is I believe "Lubeta V105" which is used for reversing wheels.

 

 

 

[rogart63]

2 hours ago, beastomaniac said:

I was just thinking that could I use 8200 instead of 9501...

There is only one place where you should use 9501 on a 2892. That is the underside of cannon pinion . I think you can use HP1300 or 8200 there. Or a breaking grease like 8217 . It very little you need? 

Or what does the other guys say? 

Don't forget to check the reversing wheels before you clean them. Very often outworn.

[lluvitar]

Just my own observation here.  About 3 years ago when repairing some vintage long clocks I did a very small scale test of Mobil 1 vs a clock oil I have used for years because I am cheap and was looking for a alternative.  The Mobil 1 was 0w20 which our Prius's use.  Two very similar clocks cleaned and lubed, one with clock oil and the other Mobil 1.  Both are still running fine today but...and it's a big but.  In performing this test I had put a small amount of Mobil 1 in a clean bottle cap which I was using for a oil cup during the servicing.  Couple of months ago while cleaning my computer desk I found this bottle cap with what remained of the Mobil 1.  It was a noticeably thicker and sticky.  Wish I had saved it now to post a pic but I didn't.  I wouldn't have thought a fully synthetic oil like Mobil 1 would evaporate like that but it sure did. The bottle cap had remained covered with a tinfoil cap so it wasn't dust and it is possible it could have reacted with the thin plastic coating on the inside of the bottle cap but that appeared unaffected when I poked around it with a toothpick.  Like I said at the start, just an observation.  And thankful that clock oils aren't as costly as watch oils.  

[jdrichard]

Just my own observation here.  About 3 years ago when repairing some vintage long clocks I did a very small scale test of Mobil 1 vs a clock oil I have used for years because I am cheap and was looking for a alternative.  The Mobil 1 was 0w20 which our Prius's use.  Two very similar clocks cleaned and lubed, one with clock oil and the other Mobil 1.  Both are still running fine today but...and it's a big but.  In performing this test I had put a small amount of Mobil 1 in a clean bottle cap which I was using for a oil cup during the servicing.  Couple of months ago while cleaning my computer desk I found this bottle cap with what remained of the Mobil 1.  It was a noticeably thicker and sticky.  Wish I had saved it now to post a pic but I didn't.  I wouldn't have thought a fully synthetic oil like Mobil 1 would evaporate like that but it sure did. The bottle cap had remained covered with a tinfoil cap so it wasn't dust and it is possible it could have reacted with the thin plastic coating on the inside of the bottle cap but that appeared unaffected when I poked around it with a toothpick.  Like I said at the start, just an observation.  And thankful that clock oils aren't as costly as watch oils.  

I suspect that on a watch Mobil 1 would be a disaster

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[bobm12]

One of our members has a chart of his experiments with motor oil and posted it so I suppose you guys can check it out...I tried to find it (pdf) but didn't have much time. I'm sure it will give some information about the subject. Also, oils and lubrication is an argument waiting to happen as Clockboy said, so no matter what the result as per experimentation and/or chart consultation, I'm sure we will always be reluctant to change our ways, specially when they gives us good result and peace of mind. Therefore, Moebious will always have the upper hand and Mobil will never make it to the watch industry...unless they are willing to spend lots of money to win the - for them -- "meager" new market (no comparison in volume sales cars vs watches).

Just my two cents. Also, I will try and use always the recommended oils until I know better but that's simply affirming the above.

Cheers,

Bob

[canthus]

Dr Tillwich Oils.

An alternative source from Germany for specialised (watch) lubes which are cheaper than M etc.   They have some really decent oils and greases. Home site data sheets and source on e**y links below.  I spent many years in lube industry so can help interpret tech data if needed.

http://www.dr-tillwich.com/index.php/en/produkte-3/schmierstoffe/datenblaetter

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/uhrmacherwerkzeuge/Uhrenole-Dr-Tillwich-/_i.html?_fsub=9879334017&_sid=111822197&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

[canthus]

Is this the next generation of lubes?

https://www.fraunhofer.de/en/press/research-news/2014/may/liquid-crystal-as-lubricant.html

[SSTEEL]

7 hours ago, canthus said:

Is this the next generation of lubes?

https://www.fraunhofer.de/en/press/research-news/2014/may/liquid-crystal-as-lubricant.html

I came across that research findings last year, but ever since, its not shown up anywhere to of been developed for the marketplace which is a shame.  Its something that I would love to try on some Chinese movements that have been modified with extra gear train for moving the native seconds @9 to either sec@6/12/3.

[clockboy]

10 hours ago, canthus said:

Is this the next generation of lubes?

https://www.fraunhofer.de/en/press/research-news/2014/may/liquid-crystal-as-lubricant.html

Very interesting article & yes maybe it is the future of lubricants. My only issue is not the non friction properties of the crystalline oils but can they stay where put. This is the dilemma with watches & clocks. They need lubrication but the oil/greases must stay where applied.

[berniethebolt]

what about pegasus/anchor/porpoise jaw oils?

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, berniethebolt said:

what about pegasus/anchor/porpoise jaw oils?

Murdering poor defenseless porpoises to steal their oil is generally frowned upon and that would include whales in the same category.

Anchor oil has really interesting properties especially when you Google it. Then usually in horological discussion groups the subject is undesirable lubrication. So you have to wonder if the few horror stories you hear are just a few or whether all of the oil is bad?

Then Pegasus oil I have no idea what that is?

[berniethebolt]

agree with the fish!Pegasus is sold on e-bay and there is Liberty oil on e-bay-obviously american,postage a bit steep.

[vinn3]

there has been a lot of research done on oils since 1945.  probably not for watches, but for military use, like 50 cal. air craft machine guns ( see p-38s are not oiled).  detergent and  multi viscosity oils were available after ww2i use.  the mineral non detergent motor oils DEFINATLY  have a shelf life.  standard oil of californa has a research lab where oil engineers have been working for many years.  i use motor oil on clocks and  watch oil on watches.  if the experts change watch oil every 5 years,  so be it.  vinn

[berniethebolt]

porpoise jaw now using sustainable fish,not porpoises for 100 years!

[DouglasSkinner]

Mobius is very expensive.  What about Nye watch oils?

[Dawagner]

There is a seller on ebay who sells smaller volumes of moebius so it is more affordable if your just doing it as a hobby. She sells like 1ml and 2ml portions

[mcass]

There is a seller on ebay who sells smaller volumes of moebius so it is more affordable if your just doing it as a hobby. She sells like 1ml and 2ml portions

Sellers name?


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