Leaderboard

Several months back, I was perusing eBay looking for a cheap watch to work on. Saw this lot of 8 watches and got them all for pretty cheap. What attracted me to the lot was the scalloped case of the Elgin. The movement turned out to be an Elgin Grade 524, manufactured in 1937. I finally got around to servicing it. The balance wheel had lots of issues (bent hairspring, wheel out of true, roller table not fully set on balance staff, and a loose roller jewel). I ended up finding a 1936 donor movement to steal the balance out of. Well, that doesn't seem to work well with these older timepieces. So, I serviced the donor and got it to run pretty decent. I ended up doing a movement swap with the watch. Now I have a movement that I can use as my guinea pig for a variety of balance work. The watch turned out quite nice i think. Case just needed a clean and light polish. Crystal was in good shape. Added a leather strap to finish it off. Love the look of that case and dial.

My first foray into the 404 club is an accidental one. My girlfriend's 13 year old daughter picked up this cute little Timex at a thrift store for $1. She'd been wearing it semi-ironically as a fashion statement and I asked if she'd like it to work. "Sure." So I took it home, tried a battery, and it lit right up! So of course I had to clean it up, polish the crystal, and lubricate the stem. Not bad for $1! I made a little video of it functioning: Then while searching for an instruction manual for her, I found this: And this was her response via text:

Hi Guys, Today I have a huge sense of accomplishment and relief after finally finishing restoration of this Ball 999B 16s 21 j railroad grade pocket watch. I started it in April, so it only took me five months to complete; as life got in the way. It also had a lot wrong with it. Broken jewels, broken staff, bent wheel, broken hands, well, you get the picture. It's running great in my estimation. The fact that it's running at all is proof, not of my workmanship because heaven knows it's lacking, but of the high quality of workmanship that went into the watch's manufacture. I feel very lucky to have gotten it back into shape. My only regret is that you can see some of the glue used to adhere the crystal. I thought it was supposed to dry clear. I might retry with some UV glue to see if that's better. Thanks to all the people who gave me input along the way. I couldn't have finished without all their help. Arron.

Well it worked, because I was sitting here trying to figure out how I could see the carpet through the back of the watch.

Been a few weeks since anyone posted. Heres 25 candidates for the 10:10 club. 25 watches £203.00. I have a few favourites. The Nivada on my wrist, bit small at 30mm but its a lovely little bumper automatic. The Doxa, cant wait to get to this, the Cyma is a nice size, Citizen Eagle 7, Leonidas GSTP. Mickey Mouse Timex.

Hi guys, I know this might stir up a hornets nest, especially talking about lubrication, but I really think this is a very subjective matter in watchmaking that needs explaining to anyone who is new to horology, or isn't quite sure to buy yet another lubricant because the service manual says that is what is needed. Higher end isochronistic movements tend to have a bigger variation of lubricants, but they are not always needed and equivalents can be used. I'm not here to tell anyone what to use as a lubricant, I want to explain what I use and most importantly why and it has all to do with torque and speed of the arbor needing to be lubricated. So, the slides will explain more than words, but the important thing to remember is you have high torque/low speed at the barrel and low torque/high speed at the balance cap jewel and staff, there will varying degrees of torque and speed as the force travels from the barrel to the escapement and if you know what that is, you can choose a lubricant to suit that particular torque and speed based on something specific. I once trained a watchmaker of 13 years from a very well known watch company here in England (I won't say which one) and when I asked him what lubricant he used and where, he told me he uses the same as the guy on the next bench. When I asked him why, he told me "Because he uses them." So, he was basing his choices of lubricant based on the guy next to him, with little understanding of the subject. When I started out it was confusing what to use and where and WHY! Also, taking into consideration the size and age of the movement will sometimes change the decision of what to use, where, but most importantly why, because your choice is based on some science and experience, rather than the guy sat next to you. That kind of science you only learn by listening to the guy down the pub tell you what is best!

Make a wig for your old lady.

Seiko 9983-8039 Twin Quartz Finally got it running to spec across all temperatures+-5 Seconds per Year. Treated it to a new dial and crystal that I had been searching for for over 8 months. A single dial finally turned up on Cousins and I pounced on it along with the sapphire crystal. The equivalent JDM 'Superior Quartz' model apparently cost as much as a Toyota Corolla back in 1979. Cost my uncle £500 back then and that was a lot, more than a Rolex back then. Also did a bit of work on the case and bezel to bring it back a bit as it had had a really rough life.

Now this is 1970's worthy of a night at the disco

Today's choice:

I don't. Work on watches just to avoid thinking.

A "Siro" pin lever nickel cased "trench watch" for 99 pence. This most likely has radium on the dial, so I'll need to be a little careful with the cleaning. The case looks in reasonable condition, except for some oxidation on the front.

My Type B flieger which is an aliexpress case & generic dial over a gorgeous hammered finish Swiss Unitas 6487 rescued from a silly looking 1970s Arnex pocket watch that had a pastoral farming scene on the dial. The 6498 was in basically new condition. I want to upgrade it with nicer crown & ratchet wheels though, and need to find a shorter sub seconds hand. This is at the extreme of what my bony wrist can manage, made worse by phone camera perspective tricks.

I am not the one to say if You are crazy, but what You describe is common for the movements with indirect driving of minute hand pinion and 7750 is one of them. The simple explanation is that there is a free play between teeth of wheel that drive the pinion and the pinion leaves (the mesh between wheels) and this free play measured by the hand moving is about 30 sec. This is due to the construction of the movement and is fully normal. To avoid what You describe, set the time finally by moving the hand back, not forward. Wat I mean is if You need to set 12:00, then set to 12:01 and carefully turn back to :00, thus the hand will start moving immediately after pushing the crown in.

I've had a rough time the past few months, I recently lost my job so lost my mojo in repairing watches for a few weeks, then I had a run of 4 or 5 watches that would just not work, and spare parts lost in the post etc.... anyway long story short, not a great watch repair time. However the watch below has broken my unlucky streak and I'm 'back on the horse' The watch is a Clinton and was won on eBay and was 1 in a lot of 2, so he price is $10.00 US each, so below the £10.10 threshold. It was quite beaten up and non-runner. Here are the before and after pictures: Here is the front of the watch, the crystal was destroyed, and the case dirty and in need of some TLC: Here is the back of the watch, complete with free arm cheese, there were no marks inside the caseback: Here is the movement I needed to replace the stem and crown due to rust, and the crystal (obviously), I also played around with straps, but all the ones I had were either too sporty or too formal, so in the end decided to splash out on a bracelet. I decided not to re-lume the hands as this would have contrasted with the look of the watch and the existing lume was stable (good call? - let me know!): And here is the timegrapher result let me know what you think

The pallet stones can easily be resized. Of course, You will need bigger (wider) stone and grit 1000 or so flat surface diamond disk or file. You put the stone on the disk and press on it with finger, then move the finger with the stone forvard-reverse on the surface to grind the stone. 4-5 movements and try if it will fit in the slot. May be it is clear without mention, but never grind the rest surface, grind only the opposite one, which is never in contact with the escape wheel teeth PS Chipped stones (if chipping is small) can be repaired too. Rotating brass flat surface is needed and diamond paste about 10 microns particles. You can easy shape and change the impulse surface angle. The stone gets shorter, but usually it is not a problem

@Simeon - I took an 8 cm section of a broken wristwatch mainspring, filed a V-shaped notch in one end, and another slightly-hook-shaped notch in an edge just a bit down from the V. I chuck it in a pin vise and use it to help align pivots on full-plate movements. It's so thin that I can reach around and over obstacles easily with it. Makes setting all the pivots much easier.

I'm servicing a nice but very dirty (gasket dust) Enicar Sherpa with a 1141 movement. It has a minute wheel on a ruby post. I've never seen this before. Is it just an Enicar thing, or more common? Well, I'll have to re-think the "nice" comment on this Enicar. I got it from the first owner, who bought it when he was young. He told me he only got it serviced once in the 70's by an east German watchmaker, but it wouldn't run very well afterwards, so he put it in a drawer. What do you think, would a broken, warped and soldered centre wheel influence timekeeping??

Originally bought as a parts movement, this Vostok 2214 arrived with a chunk missing from its crystal and the dial covered in sand. As I cleared the debris off the dial, I was smitten with its blue-purple sunburst. And since I am all about bringing back the most hopeless basket cases (and since I found the lost part I needed it to donate right under my nose) I went ahead and serviced it. I love how it came out and it runs great. I even took my first stab at re-brushing the caseback with a result no worse than the rusty and pitted dial.

I am bumping up this old post because, @Jon, I wanted to thank you again for this tutorial. Recently I had to service a customer's vintage Byn Deluxe, a lesser known Swiss watch which uses a Baumgartner 34. The movement was running but the hands weren't moving. Luckily, I remembered reading this post a few years back. I managed to find it here again to refresh my memory, and was able to read what you posted on how to tighten the clutch with a staking set, since the cannon pinion on these movements must remain free, as they are only mounted on an unmoving post. I was able to tighten the minute wheel enough to provide just the right amount of resistance, and then - everything got a cleaning, oiling, and regulating. The hands move now!!! I am sure I would not have know quite what to do with that thing if I had not read this post. You are awesome sir! And so is this awesome forum!

It looks like the collet is not pushed fully down. Also, it looks like the top pivot bent ? You need to bend the terminal curve so that it is flat.

The speed control on my unit is pretty good, I can adjust it from 0 to 2000rpm. I been using it at 200 rpm and works fine. Unfortunately I have to pit a timer since my stirrer doesn't have an alarm when it stops. But I am happy with my unit. You can find it on amazon for less than 100$

Looks like a horrible cheap copy. Look at the poor quality of the bracelet ends, and the notches round the edge of the back are not sharp. The diamond does not line up with the hour marker, the graining on the case looks poor, the hands don't look right etc etc

Kalle regularly mentions how he enjoys the interaction with subscribers on the live streams. (Are there any others that regularly live stream?) Personally I wouldn’t want to move through assembly with all the interruptions. Besides that, all the real work has been done before assembly… He does have a library of instructional videos and more planned with his upcoming book (an observation, not a paid endorsement…) Not an opinion I disagree with but I’ll share this amongst y’all- I sent this one into their shop last month… Hear me out- I appreciate heavy patina as much as the next man but this dial has damage…and is visually distracting IMO. I suspect this happened early in it’s life as the rest of the watch is mint- no scratches, tight screw slots, clean and original case. Hat tip to WRT’s Stian who uses the word ‘coherence’- where the parts of the restoration make sense given the wear and age of the piece. Here I don’t think there’s coherence… …This one’s been sitting for nearly two years hoping I’d find an original JLC replacement but no luck. Perrin had an inexpensive leCoultre which the watch has ATM but now the watch is a bit of a franken… If all goes well the watch is going to a known owner who has much interest in vintage but little interest in patina…

Eeeek... What has been seen, cannot be unseen. Now I'm going to have to wash my eyeballs.

Just to close this out - I ended up going with a clasp extension from Cousins. I bought the link extension that is supposed to fit under the clasp as well but that wouldn't work with my bracelet without lots of modification. As it is, the clasp extension needed a bit of fettling to make it work. The holes didn't quite align on one side (it's not that well made) so I aligned it with the existing clasp and drilled out the hole with a 0.8mm drill where they overlapped so that I could install a springbar between them. I also brushed the existing clasp and extension with some small Scotchbrite type buffs on my Dremel to get them both matching a bit better. I think it's turned out OK, considering.

If there is one tool I love more than any other it is my Jacot tool. We often emphasise the importance of perfect pivot holes, but the truth is we need perfect pivots as well.

You'll need to insert a thin lever to release the clips as shown in the video around 5 minutes.

I've got one of these tools, which are great for holding crowns for removing and replacing gaskets, as well as drilling out old stems and closing up watch hands. I'll do a little review on the tool in the next day or so. In fact, I've got half a dozen new toys... I mean, tools, so could do some reviews for them. I even got some boxwood tweezers from AliExpress for about a tenner, which are mind-blowingly good for picking up bridges and the like

Wearing a new-to-me Longines today. It didn't quite qualify for the 404 club, but I picked it up for only $40 US and some change. It was at a local antique store, with a tag describing it as "Not running no crown". I asked to see it, and I held it and did a few turns-of-the-wrist, and the second hand advanced in different positions, so I took it home. The movement was dirty, but in excellent condition otherwise. And I had the perfect crown for it. Thorough cleaning, fresh oil, a bit of regulating, and it runs beautifully. And the Kreisler band is surprisingly comfortable. The movement is a 23ZS with 17 jewels. Nothing spectacular, but just finding a genuine Longines for that price was a feat in itself. And it's looking fairly accurate so far, so I am a happy camper.

It appears they only made 2 movements and the OPs is actually a 240.33 Edit Here's another listing on eBay for the part I think they're referring too in their original post. https://www.ebay.fr/itm/223329882996?customid=&toolid=10050

Rich, why have I never heard of Flume ! What am I missing, what have you been hiding from me ? (whilst googling for Flume, I found this great document which is like a Swiss version of Bestfit. Follow the second link on this page https://omegaforums.net/threads/download-official-catalogue-of-swiss-watch-repair-parts-1949-1959.88089/ )

It was a cal 2230 from a ladies watch. The rotor pivot had snapped off where it's riveted on, so I had to find a replacement. It was very straightforward to service - with online info when I needed it, e.g. on how to properly lubricate the reverser wheels. The only thing I was worried about was regulating. On a small movement fiddling with the balance weights I could break a pivot. I bought a Microstella tool, but in the end didn't need it. It was (and still is) the only watch I've serviced which didn't need any regulating. The timegrapher was flat in all positions. Amazing. Beautifully made, but I still don't want one

Right, I have of course seen all the elaborate Breitling aviation watches for example. Nothing like that one though. And I had found and gotten started on that slide rule bezel article yesterday before work interrupted. And since I don't usually post here, today is an instance of an heirloom passing the wrong way up the chain. This Casio was my kid's first watch at age 9, but the strap broke after a few years and he got another one new (cheaper than replacing the strap). I kept it around and eventually did buy a genuine replacement strap & buff out all the deep gouges a child puts into the crystal on one of these. Today I will use it to time his 5k cross-country race.

It is indeed an M22, produced in Scotland (Dundee). The single plate construction means they can be a little fiddly to strip down and re-assemble. This one just got a quick solvent slunge, and some fresh lube. The trickiest job on these is to sort out hairspring damage, but fortunately this one didn't need any real fixing, just a clean and fresh oil.

This evening I'm sporting a 1959 Timex Marlin - One of a pair of watches I picked up for the 404 club. It was filthy and gunked up to the point that it barely ticked, but a little TLC has it ticking away with that distinctive alarm clock tick that only an ancient Timex can muster. .

Yep rigid enough for this job. These work a treat as mini levers, bending the mainspring to snap the pieces i wanted from the straight center portion of the spring gave them just the right amount of curl to fit over the balance wheel rim and under the hairspring and collet. So the handles are 3mm pegwood which feels about right maybe a touch thicker might give them a better feel. A 0.2mm diamond disk cuts the 10mm slot in the pegwood to slide the spring into, fill the slot with clear nail varnish insert the pieces of spring, and run a bead of nail varnish around the slot and a little onto the spring, set them aside for a couple of hours to cure. When set add a bevel to the top edge only and remember to remove the burr created on the backside, using a fine diamond plate, fine finish the edge with dental strips, i guess the xfine is around 3000 @HectorLooi might know what the grades of these are. Finally polish up with polinum on a sponge pad add a drop of oil to either the polishing pad or mix it in with the polinun, job done . The spring measures 1.1mm x 0.7mm, i left around 8mm showing from the handle, its actually a tad long but works well, 5mm might feel a bit better.

That's where the big leap happens from following photos taken to reassemble a movement, to spotting something out of place, because you know how the movement should work and you are not making assumptions about what you have found when disassembling. I always tell my students 'Don't assume what you find is how it is meant to be.' Like the brake spring. You'll be surprised what you find when you look at a movement with scepticism.

A small update for those who are interested. Last Friday I finished the disassembly and for those of you who are interested, I have added new pictures to the link I published in a previous post (please sort by name in ascending order). It was over 300 pictures. In the long run, I plan to create a service walkthrough and then I will have plenty of pictures to choose from. I was a bit unsure whether I should dismantle this cannon pinion-like part on the "Cover mechanism" because Rolex explicitly writes "Do not dismantle". But, since the whole movement is covered with metal debris, I chose to do it anyway. However, I had some headaches because it did not work with my trusted cannon pinion remover nor with some of my presto tools which were all too big. I tried to pull the tube off by clamping it in my staking set and pushing the tube up with brass tweezers, but that only resulted in the tip of the brass tweezers breaking off (easily dressed) but better than damaging the tube. After looking through a bunch of videos I finally found a video where @Markshows how to do it. Many thanks! The parts are now soaking in a degreaser (Horsolov) and I will brush them all off before it is time for the cleaning machine. Getting everything perfectly clean will be a challenge considering the service neglect and damage made by the loose rotor.

Latest £5 Charity Shop find Record from approx. 1980. FHF 69N movement. Replaced crown and stem as old one was too worn. Had to use HP1300 everywhere to prevent knocking as the amplitude after cleaning was so high (even on the balance jewels and pallet fork).

The fact that the amplitude seems to be jumping all over the place, suggests it could be endshake - with the wheels moving around and possible touching. The way I judge endshake, is to assume it's about the same as the thickness of the pivot. Too much and you get can get variable amplitudes like you are getting. If you can get a steady 240° and more than 180° after 24h, I would then wear it for a while to see how well it keeps time. I have some Seiko's where I have really struggled to get above 220-230°, and in the end decided it was OK. As @JohnR725 keeps pointing out, it's nice to have high amplitude, but not critical for good timekeeping. Look at the amplitude requirement for an Omega 560 (similar sized automatic) after 24h : 160° !! Interestingly, here are a couple of pics from the WatchGuy, who usually gets good amplitude when he services watches https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/library?action=show_brand&brand=Seiko For a 7s26A, 232° and a 7s26B 231°

Welcome to the world of watch repair lol, it does get easier.

Funny how one can make it sound like a simple affair and then someone else can.............kind of not. Lol After reading joe's and geotex's comments, it makes more financial and reputable sense to just save those for date watches and buy the appropriate non-date version movements required. Makes no sense to cause yourself a headache now and a potentially bigger one further in the future. It may actually be a recognised and acceptable modification but why take chances. My trade is different but the same principles apply, make it right first time and you only make it once. Happy customer means happy business I'm not a watchmaker and never will be in the true sense of the word. I think I'd make a good apprentice and with luck one day be a good amateur maybe even part-time professional with the odd qualification. At 57 i am a pro in my trade with 40 years of experience of it and a businessman with 37 years experience with past success but winding down now, trademen with physical jobs can only last so long. To build a reputable business you need principles and methodology that you stand by while working. It takes time and a lot of effort to build a reputation, stick to good principles that you set for yourself af the start and your reputation will grow. There's a saying here in Yorkshire " you're only as good as your last job " and its absolutely true. People risk their own character when recommending , for some it can be like recommending themselves. I rarely do it for others. So that follows that good reputations take time to grow. Those same people that are slow to recommend only need to blink to generate critism, that follows that criticism can dent and destroy a reputation. Get it right , get it right and keep getting it right. Rich.

The price gives it away it's a fake. Just look at that bracelet as someone has already pointed out it's as rough as a badgers ass.

Most schools won't teach how to cut gears, or if they do, just the basics. You do learn how to saw and file to a high level, and how to make turned parts on a lathe, like winding stems and balance staffs. To cut gears you need some special machinery; lathes can be adapted to do it, but small watchmaker lathes are far from ideal. You also need the profile cutters to form the teeth. Once the hairspring was invented, two big issues became the focus. Isochronism- the stability of rate over high and low amplitudes, and the effects of temperature. Up to the 1930 or so, the best option for compensating the effects of temperature (gaining rate in colder temp, losing rate in hotter) was a bimetallic balance of roughly 2/3 brass and 1/3 steel, in various configurations but usually with the rim cut at the cross arm on both sides. As the balance heats, the sections of rim contract, as it cools, they expand, thus correcting for the change in elasticity of the hairspring (which was made from steel). Charles Guillaume invented Invar in the early 1900s, which is an alloy that doesn't change length with temperature change, then Elinvar, which doesn't change elasticity with temperature change. It was a pretty big deal, netting him the Nobel Prize. Now a watch could be made to rival the best bimetallic balances using a monometallic uncut balance coupled with an Elinvar hairspring. Over the years further developments were made, in particular making the hairspring alloy virtually non-magnetic (another big deal). You can make a balance from a number of materials and get good results using a "compensated" hairspring, but most high quality balances are made from beryllium copper. If you want to make a balance that uses a regulator into a freesprung, you will need to add some sort of adjustable masses to the balance rim. This will cause the balance to be too heavy for its hairspring- but you can also remove material from the rim to compensate for the added mass. It's pretty high-level watchmaking work, not something to start with.

If you don’t know your options…present it back? Seriously, the top of the list is replace the balance or staff and there’s the low probability of success bending with a seitz pivot tool but with that amount of bend would it even fit in a jewel? …and just because the watch is no name doesn’t mean the movement is anonymous. Maybe there’s a replacement out there?

Personally i think too much emphasis is placed on getting high amplitude. Dependency of it varies between different watches. An example i have is a 60 year old Raketa that produces around 220 -240 ° at full wind 180-200° after 24 hours depending on watch position. Keeps very good time, a minute or so deviation per week, winding once per day and stays within one hour of the specified power reserve when i don't wind it.

Hi I have used a few and had no bother. We are always hung up on amplitude, if the watch works as it should and keeps good time as is I would just service the watch as normal but if when removing the mainspring it looks set or damaged it will require changing . If ok reuse.

This is one of those tasks which starts as a real nuisance, but once you have the technique, becomes quite easy. I have a ground down oiler which works well, but you have to keep the tip really sharp. I also made a copy of the Horotec Incabloc oiler (which is designed for this task) by gluing an old balance staff in to some brass tubing (which was stuck on an old oiler). I put a blob of oil on the jewel, push the oiler through the hole and wait for a few seconds, then turn the jewel over to check the size of the oil circle. Repeat until enough oil gets through.

The cheap, simple demagnetisers do not automatically "fade out" the magnetic field, which is an essential part of degaussing. With those, you need to start with the tool or part against the device, press the button then move the item slowly away from it, out to a couple of feet or more away, before releasing the button. If you just press and release the button, the residual field will depend on what point in the AC cycle the button was released; it could be small, or it could be strong.