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JohnR725 last won the day on October 17

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About JohnR725

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  1. Thank you it makes it much easier to find the reference if you know where it actually is in the book versus the page number. Especially when you have multiple editions of the book and things tend to shift around a little bit. Then anyone who has the third edition it's page 156 So I see is that Henry does actually use the term dirty. Then from the link above " Crusty pivots, like crusty jewels, need a thorough scrubbing ". I guess maybe I'm being overly nitpicky tarnished in my mind is not the same as crusty and scrubbing is not the same as polishing.
  2. There is one itsy-bitsy problem with the picture though? It appears to be the balance wheel isn't in the watch? Yes I know when it's in the watch it's really really hard to see it's easier to see if it's out of the watch but if it's rubbing touching bumping and causing an issue that is usually in the watch not when it's out of the watch. So the problem occurs in the watch that is where you need to look at it. Out of the watch the balance wheel is not in its alignment with both pivots it usually can lean a little bit. So ideally when you're looking at a problem like this you should be looking at it in the watch for the most part.
  3. Does your timing machine show a graphical display you can show us? Besides swapping escapement components what other servicing have you done to this watch? Plus what sort of lubrication are you using especially on the escapement components.
  4. We need a clear picture looking in sideways at the hairspring and balance wheel in the watch. Then yes technically her out a center but it's minimal it shouldn't be the cause of amplitude problems. They hairspring not flat would be a cause of problems especially when it's touching something. Can we get timing machine results? And that includes the graphical display with the numbers.
  5. Then back to cleaning pivots and for that matter the entire watch. Maybe another solution would be purchasing proper solutions designed specifically for this. So rather than looking at the usual sources for these things I looked at Amazon and eBay. I'm giving the Amazon links of a couple below there is probably more I just didn't go looking for them. I noticed eBay had at least one of these listed below. Then fourth link PDF description of these. So you will note with the cleaning product you need a associated rinse product. Then minor caution when you're using professional fluids that clean extremely well be careful not to leave your watch in there all day or you'll find it goes beyond cleaning and starts to etch. You can usually recognize this the solution will turn blue that's the copper that used to be in your watch plate now in solution. Worse case was a watchmaker told the story of going on vacation forgot to take the watch out the cleaner and now needed a new movement. Then unfortunately depending upon the temperature the fluid a variety of unknown conditions I wouldn't go over 10 minutes with any of the cleaning solutions I typically aim for five minutes. The rinse itself shouldn't be an issue but just to avoid any unpleasant surprises probably best not To leave your watch in any fluids for any length of time. https://www.amazon.com/Ultrasonic-Ammoniated-Watch-Cleaning-Solution/dp/B06X9CC2RM https://www.amazon.com/Watch-Rinsing-Solution-Chlorinated-Solvents/dp/B06WWH9Q3Z https://www.amazon.com/Ultrasonic-Non-Ammoniated-Watch-Cleaning-Solution/dp/B01LQYMRRC http://www.lrultrasonics.com/pdf/Jwlry.WatchSolutionsGuide.pdf
  6. Helpful to have the background history? What was the watch doing before you service the watch? Then timing machine results dial up, dial down and at least one crown position crown down would be fine more would be better. Not just numeric results we need the graphical display. Then the following a proper timing machine protocol is to wind the watch fully up let it run for 15 to 30 minutes typically. Time for 30 seconds in each position and allow 30 seconds in between shifting positions to settle down. A lot of this will depend on the type of watch some will settle down faster than others.
  7. Balloon Chucks I've attached a picture of the common type ones that you will find. The older style ones can have a lid that unscrews. The newer style tend to be the two that are on the bottom. The most important thing though is that when it's holding the balance and the pivot is sticking out that the Pivot is not wobbling. Then you have a variety of things that you can use with your pivots. Sometimes referred to diamond lapping the film that's the colored strips on the left-hand side. Note there is no diamond it is aluminum oxide they come in a variety of micron finishes. Depending upon how aggressive you want to be there things like hard Arkansas stone, steel burnishers, Stone and sapphire burnishers Etc.
  8. As we appear to be somewhat going off subject I will continue with that. The jacot tool mentioned above is an interesting tool. As a young watch student one of the older watchmakers showed me how to use it. So this is what I got out of it to be good you need to practice every day. If you know how to use the tool like he did the polish produced is outstanding and that's a gross understatement. In the absence of that tool and the practice of every day a balloon Chuck works fine.
  9. I should've extracted out each section of your reply like this it might make it easier to read. Polishing in general does not change the shape I have no objection to the method only polishing usually doesn't remove crusty stuff and is a final step not the only step. Then the reference to the Balloon chock and heavy burnishing? That is in reference to the video in the video the burnishing tool appears to be a clock pivot burnishing tool. A clock burnishing tool is in general way too aggressive on a watch pivot.
  10. First off to avoid any complications I've seen his website I like his website I just have problems with this particular page and in relationship to this particular discussion. Then quoting your text above is a problem in that you're commenting about a whole bunch of things at the same time which is going to make for a very confusing answer possibly and hopefully no one will quote this mess as it will be super complicated it be better to break this up into simple questions and answers. So this discussion is on "Cleaning balance pivots" .The website is on "Cleaning Balance Staff Pivots" Then quoting again from his website "But sometimes we need to kick it up a notch. Crusty pivots, like crusty jewels, need a thorough scrubbing. In The Watch Repairer’s Manual (4th ed., 156-157), Fried describes a useful method for scrubbing pivots to a clean and shiny polish without removing metal or changing a pivot’s shape." Then minor nitpicky complaints when quoting from a book that was printed in multiple additions giving the title of the chapter would be helpful for us that have a different addition of the book. Let's see if I can summarize crusty pivots could someone give me a definition of that? What he is described in your quote on the webpage and Henry's book is a wonderful method of polishing a pivot. My objection is crusty and polishing does not usually turn out well. Polishing is more of a final step when you have a clean pivot. Then I see I need to improve my reading skills? I see at the very end he does comment you can freehand doing and if he says you can I'm not going to object that he can but I wouldn't. Then it would be really nice if he had shown a picture of the blue and Chuck and the pivot polisher because most people probably have never seen these before. Then this answer is too long and I don't think I covered everything in your huge quote so I'm going to start another answer
  11. Perhaps as a new person we should take a different approach? The first approach would be what is the problem? So from the a question above you not specify a specific watch it helps if we know exactly what watch were talking about. That's because every single watch is different there like human beings they're all different one approached is not necessarily work for every single one. Then once we find out which watch your having problems with then we look at why do you have low amplitude because it could be a whole variety of things probably not the balance pivots. Then Spinning the balance in a pin vice against your buffing stick is probably going to not have the desired results depending upon the size of the balance wheel etc. So I really think we should concentrate on where the problem really is. I'm not saying it's not 100% the pivots but we really should look at the individual watch and see what's going on.
  12. Your link is very misleading and the description is not quite appropriate. Scrubbing isn't exactly the proper word and cleaning isn't exactly valid either. Unfortunately you have to read almost to the very end to get this sentence that I'm exactly quoting " To mount the balance, you can place it in a balloon chuck in a lathe or set it in a pivot polisher ". Then I'm attaching a sort of helpful link to a YouTube video. The video is not entirely correct either sort of but does show a balloon Chuck. So a balloon Chuck allows you to hold the balance wheel in the lathe with only the pivot sticking out so you can work on it. Working on it would mean polishing which is exactly what is described that your link. Possibly reshaping the pivots but hopefully not as aggressive as in the video. Or Reshaping the end of the pivot. Simplistically it's a way of holding a balance wheel to allow you to work on the pivot without destroying the rest of the balance wheel. Then yes if it's a really big American pocket watch you can usually leave the hairspring on as it doesn't seem to bother it. https://youtu.be/9K0-DVmZjrg In this next link scroll down to "Joseph School of Watch Making" Click on "Unit 4 - Burnishing Balance Pivots" This also shows the balloon Chuck. https://www.mybulova.com/vintage-bulova-catalogs So now go back to the original link read carefully instead of heavy burnishing instead you're going to polish the pivot. So sometimes aggressive burnishing is not required only polishing.
  13. If you feel that my answer was inappropriate I apologize obviously I have zero idea how professional watch shops work. Notice that everyone is making assumptions? So the assumption skips over steps and assumes basic watch basic servicing zero parts zero problems only cleaning and as stated above not even professional cleaning because you skipped some steps. Then the money's the biggest assumption of all as a professional you would be paying rent even if you're operating out of your house. The tools and equipment and supplies all have to be paid for cost of cleaning fluid disposal of cleaning fluid and all other normal business expenses. In order to do that servicing the watch somehow has to get to your hands conceivably there's another person involved or if it's a really big shop several people. With several people involved yes watchmakers can do watches fast because a lot of tasks are offloaded to other people.
  14. I'm going to skip over what I think of the fantasy 1.5 hours to service a watch otherwise you're going to get several paragraphs of the stupidity of that. It only works in a theoretical situation of everything absolutely perfect and unfortunately this is watch repair other than a modern service center that just isn't going to happen. Then even a modern service center with specialized equipment conceivably several people work on that watch. Somebody will do the casing work polishing the case of that's needed casing up to verify that everything is waterproof it depends on the shop a watchmaker might do a lot of that but a lot of time several people involved. So here's a link below if you're looking for watchmaker. There is some minor problems though with their search? So the search text is based on the content found associated with each person. This means when you search for a chronograph for instance the list is tiny because people didn't list that they would do chronographs even though I know there's people that are not on the chronograph list that will do chronographs. Then you have to click on each name to find their website link at the bottom of the description but still you end up with a list of watch repair people. Then to be on this list you have to be a member of this Association which means a lot of watchmakers won't be on the list because they choose not to be a member of this Association. But still as a whole bunch of names some of them have websites very just be nice if they list the websites with the name seat enough to click on every single name and if there text descriptions were little bit better that would be helpful. https://awci.memberclicks.net/find-a-professional
  15. That's an interesting movement holder looks like it will do the quartz chronograph also. The only catch is it's missing the support pieces for driving the hands on. Then because the image I snipped didn't show that I'm attaching a picture just in case you see one in the junk box of Seiko stuff you'll know what you're looking at.
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