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JohnR725 last won the day on January 28

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About JohnR725

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  1. JohnR725

    Running Oh So Fast

    Somewhere in the discussion group within the last year or so this came up with another watch. So the balance wheel oscillates at its proper frequency the timing machine shows that. The gear ratio has to correspond to the rate of the balance wheel as pointed out above. If the gear ratio is wrong the hands will move at the wrong rate. I've seen this occur with several watches they came in several different frequencies. So basically physically identical watches a lot of parts would interchange except gear train they be some differences there for the gear ratio and the different balance wheels. This met when you're ordering replacement gear train gears you had the make sure you ordered the correct wheels or you'd get exactly what you have strange timekeeping.
  2. JohnR725

    Rolex owner claims watch stops

    The problem when you're doing automatic watches is the lubrication can be very specific for each of the watches. Some of them definitely have to have surface treatment or else. Others as you mentioned there is a very diluted lubrication that you can purchase or mix yourself that can be used. As clockboy pointed out there's other issues that come up. This then becomes a problem if you're servicing a watch when you're not authorized because unfortunately like Rolex is really tight with their technical documentation. So all the nifty updates that would explain all the things you need to be doing don't exist which can definitely be an issue if you're servicing watches not to have the proper current documentation.
  3. JohnR725

    Rolex owner claims watch stops

    Initially when I saw this " Episurf Neo" I assume that was something I wasn't interpreting correctly? But seeing MrRoundel Message above I googled it and found a link below. Then I remembered Omega had what I thought was a revised but in reality is a new document on new procedure to apply Epilame treatment. So they're using FIXODROP ES/BS 8981 Which comes in 1 & 5 Litre Bottles. So a dramatic departure from the past new procedure and what gets surface treated has changed dramatically. New procedure is run the watch through the cleaning machine same as always. Then we get to the dramatic difference previously only a couple of components got treated now a couplet components are not treated and just about everything else in the watch is. Then the complicated application of the past is gone you put a new jar in your cleaning machine filled with the solution there recommending for a Greiner machine half a liter of fluid for the jar. One minute in their a couple of minutes in the dryer your good to go.. https://www.surfactis.com/en/produits/episurf-2/ http://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en/products/epilames
  4. You're asking in impossible to answer question? Impossible to answer because the materials used to make the watch were they designed to last forever? I know you're not asking forever but how long do the rubber gaskets last before they let moisture in. Moisture is a great source for generating rust which is a grinding compound. The lubricants how long were they meant the last. Even the metal that they made the watch out of a lot of times Seiko's use softer metal than they really should things have a habit of wearing out faster.
  5. I'm not 100% sure what your question is so I'm taking a slightly different approach. I consulted with one of my coworkers as I did not think that the 6R15 timing wise was really equivalent to your watch. So he seemed to think that the 4R25 was more closely related it's a slightly more expensive movement. Then Seiko has an OEM division called time module they make basically the same movements with a slightly differing numbering scheme so the 4R35 is equal to the NH3x series. I'm attaching the timing sections out of each the reason I wanted the time module sheet is it specifies in greater detail how the why and just better at explaining things. For your mainspring there are technical complications? I've attached an image of mainsprings the lower mainspring is an American pocket watch spring the upper mainspring is a modern mainspring. Notice the back curve? The modern spring is at least some of them have been designed with these interesting back curves to hopefully equalize the force throughout its winding. So the more modern watches conceivably will have a much more equal force running time through their entire running time or at least a much bigger section then watches that don't have these more interesting mainsprings. So the simplistic of the question is you look at modern watches their designed to run at least 48 hours so that the first 24 should be relatively even in the power curve. If you look at Rolex specifications they go over 48 hours their timing specifications are at Fully wound up and half power which of course is 24 hours.
  6. JohnR725

    Rolex owner claims watch stops

    It would be interesting to know what was the prior history of the watch and the customer? In other words was the watch running fine and he decided to have it serviced or is this a new acquisition with no history? Was the watch giving him a problem before he had it serviced? One of the problems with automatic watches is our modern lifestyle doesn't necessarily move the watch enough to keep it fully wound up. This watch has approximately a 50 hour run time it should easily run overnight and still be running the next day. Out of curiosity did you time the watch the way Rolex specifies? Like for instance after winding the watch up letting it run 24 hours put it on the timing machine and what was the amplitude In the pendant positions?
  7. Seiko and their tech sheets regarding timing specifications finding out what they are can be challenging. For instance for your watch there's a technical sheets for servicing with no timing specifications. So physically the 6R15 is supposed to be similar to your watch not sure if the timing specifications are I'm almost think they might be better but the tech sheet does have specifications which I snipped out and put below. Then note a difference between the PDF link above? Usually the higher the grade watch the more positions their time and in. So typically eight positions is for a chronometer grade watch. So they give you two sets of numbers what the watch does on the rest and what it should be doing on a timing machine. Then a clarification for the timing machine the definition of fully wound up not specified here is you let the watch run about 15 minutes up to one hour. Usually the watch needs a little bit a stabilizing time when it's wound up. Then the isochronism number at the end of 24 hours only in one position.
  8. What sort of timekeeping were you expecting from your Seiko? Then accuracy timing machine or 24 hours is not the same thing. Timing machines give you instantaneous in that one position of what it is doing. Watches do a nice job of averaging imperfections over 24 hours. Then if you really want to do the timing machine thing you can't just do it in one position unless you keep your watch only in that position when you wear it all through the day. So you need to do multiple positions and a little math found at the PDF below. But no matter what that's still only tells you what the watch is doing at the moment you had it on your timing app/timing machine. So ideally every 24 hours you compare your watch to something that keeps better timekeeping than the watch. Then what affects timekeeping simplistically everything. The biggest influence will be amplitude fluctuations both short and long-term. Long-term effect is as the watch is not moving or not moving enough to wind the mainspring the mainspring less power, amplitude will drop timekeeping is affected. Short-term the gear train depending upon its quality doesn't necessarily transmit the power in a nice linear fashion the wheels bind up and unbind and you can get some short-term timing fluctuations. Positional errors in the balance wheel cause timing problems and they get worse with amplitude.Then things like external influences I wasn't thinking about the moon and gravity more along the lines of vibrations & temperature extremes conceivably. https://www.witschi.com/assets/files/sheets/X-D-DVH-Di-Im-N_EN.pdf
  9. JohnR725

    2892 Remove mainspring power

    So my apology when I looked at the tech sheet I knew the automatic came off that standard but I thought it had a standard click mechanism not quite. Mark actually has several videos I found another one at about eight minutes 40 seconds he shows releasing the click. Then just to make sure from your image I circled where the click should be. Then image from the tech sheet to see the layout of the gears etc. part number 425 is the click.. So as a guess if they gear train is glued together with gummy old oil and that would include the stem winding parts it's not going to release. You may be able to back wind from the crown if the parts will move at all. Then worst-case not my favorite remove the pallet fork. Make sure the dial side components are off when the train spins down you don't want to have anything to come to a sudden stop that would be very bad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5M4WFJ359c
  10. JohnR725

    2892 Remove mainspring power

    Are you trying to let the power off with the automatic assembly still in place?
  11. JohnR725

    ETA 2892A2 Amplitude

    So regarding the mainspring did you remove it from the barrel and did you clean it? If the mainspring in a prior servicing had been lubricated with some lubrication then we really can't assume that the spring is not going to be a source of a problem. Modern mainsprings come prelubricated so no lubrication is required on the spring itself. Breaking grease is required on the outer wall. If you'd remove the cap and the mainspring look clean other than lubricating the arbor if you didn't want to fool with it you would've probably been okay. But if you saw lubrication on the spring attempted to clean it without Removing the spring that's not going to be successful and then trying to put grease on it after the fact that may or may not work either. So with a watch that is having an amplitude problem mainsprings can be an issue. Not so much because thay are going to be set or go bad mainly because Of the possibility of sticky lubrication.
  12. JohnR725

    ETA 2892A2 Amplitude

    You didn't mention what other lubricants you are using for the rest of the watch? Then minor problem with 9415 a little is good too much is bad Omega has an interesting guideline for lubricating the pallet fork and it's depending upon the conditions of previous lubricants specifically whether is lubricated with Lubrifar As that changes the lubrication. But in any case they apply of very tiny little drop than 24 hours verify it meets their specifications and the use of 40 power microscope. So a very tiny bit a lubricated is important too much is bad but that's more of a high performance thing I doubt it's what affecting you unless you put huge blobs on. I don't suppose you know the service history of the watch its prior condition before you serviced it? Then I was rereading the entire discussion timing you did dial-up and dial down there was a discrepancy does the discrepancies still exist? Then you gave a dial-up and dial down you didn't give any of the pendant positions like wristwatch typically crown down what's that doing?
  13. JohnR725

    ETA 2892A2 Amplitude

    You have to be careful when you look at a chart like that in that it doesn't explain the numbers? A better source of information is the manufacturing info sheet for the watch which I'm attaching. So specifically the minimum amplitude is after running 24 hours. ETA 2892-A2 of manufacturing info.pdf
  14. JohnR725

    Timex on timegrapher?

    Any time you get random dots on the machine then the numbers are meaningless. So I did an experiment for you same timing machine different Timex unfortunately I only have one Timex that's running. So initially it wouldn't even display unless I set the machine to 18,000 beats per hour watch. So occasionally something resembling a pattern of dots like in the image below or totally random dots and occasional the machine resets because it can't read it at all.
  15. JohnR725

    How to remove stem from this JLC

    Yes that is the ideal ideally you want to see the roller jewel is perfectly centered and aligned where it's supposed to be but it is impossible normally see the roller jewel with any watch. So the simple is to make sure the pallet fork is centered between the banking pins. That is usually relatively easy to do. The other solution is especially since you've taken your balance wheel out is to look at the alignment of where the roller jewel is and put a mark on the outer edge of the balance wheel corresponding to where the roller jewel Is and then make sure that's centered over the invisible line from the center of the balance staff to the center of the escape wheel. I notice the reference above to moving the regulator arm so a clarification the regulator arm regulates the timekeeping the stud changes the beat. So you have two separate arms I'm attaching an image of the regulator see you can see where that is. Then there is an unfortunate habit of sometimes moving one actually moves both of them usually moving the stud moves both of them. Another way to get close if you visually can't see what you need to see Google the model number of your watch look at the images and assume that other people have their studded regulator about where there supposed to be and that will get you reasonably close and then just very tiny movements of the stud because it can be very dramatic the effect. Timing machine interpretations? I noticed in your first image it looked like random dots and the timing machine does not have intelligence if it does not see whatever it perceives it's supposed to see it will still indicate something so random dots usually mean the numbers are wrong. Next image that I have below looks better but I do have concerns? Numerically it looks good but graphical a the lines are really far apart? The problem and we've already done an experiment it's elsewhere in this discussion group if the beat is great enough the lines will roll over and no longer graphically represent what they're supposed to. Then in the experiment I don't think we push the numbers over 9.9 so I'm assuming even though we didn't do it that if you go over 9.9 the machine will roll over and 10 Is probably going to look really outstanding as it's now going to be a really small number. So basically are graphical display doesn't agreed numerically with the numbers there too far apart. Then in the picture that HSL Has put your stud back to about their new awards put it back where it was when you found it which should correspond hopefully the pictures you find online that should get you close and see what the timing machine looks like then.