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mikepilk last won the day on November 25 2017

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About mikepilk

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    Watford, Herts

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  1. Thanks @saswatch88. Speedtimerkollektion have a barrel for a cal 5204 but it doesn't look in great shape. There are new barrels on ebay, but I don't know the part number. This is my first Citizen, and I find it annoying that it's so hard to find information and parts. I've got several Seiko's - I like that it's so easy and cheap to find spares
  2. I'm pinning my hopes on it being the mainspring. I've examined every jewel/pivot under the microscope - the gear train runs beautifully, (tried all individually and together) as does the new balance (nothing touching). The pallet/jewels look good. Had it stripped down about 6 times trying to find the cause ! Currently showing just 215 deg. Out of interest I looked up the coefficient of frictions (sliding) for brass and nickel : nickel to mild steel is 0.64, brass to mild steel 0.44 (couldn't find numbers for spring steel) So when the nickel wears through, the friction drops about 30%
  3. As @nickelsilver pointed out, the barrel has worn through the nickel plating to brass. I therefore plan to change the barrel, when I can find a replacement - there are some NOS on ebay but I don't know the part number. Anyone got a reference to Citizen parts lists? I have the technical/service manuals but can't find any parts list. With a replacement barre l+ new spring + 8213, I should hopefully get decent amplitude !
  4. The barrel wall doesn't look too bad, a bit worn and smooth. I'll try to get a replacement barrel and some 8213.
  5. I agree the spring doesn't look right in that pic. There were signs that it had been rubbing on the barrel lid. One reason I changed it was the height was 1.1 mm, whereas the original spec shows 1.2 mm I do use a spring winder, though as these wind the 'wrong way' I have to wind it in to the next smaller winder, then transfer it to the correct size to get it the right way round. I unwind it by releasing the click whilst controlling the crown in my fingers. I agree it's a good idea to remove the lid and watch it wind, though the slot in the arbor isn't deep enough for a screwdriver, so I'll have to try and use a pin vice.
  6. I did to start with, but as the amplitude was so poor, I fitted a new spring. I wonder if the surface condition of the barrel wall could be the problem ? I've been looking for a donor movement - but the 52**/54** movements aren't common.
  7. I have a Citizen 33J cal 5204 which is driving me nuts trying to get decent amplitude. I'm pretty sure it's the mainspring slipping in the barrel. This is the procedure from the service manual - Where it says 'Check the number of rotations by re-winding the mainspring' - does that mean letting down the mainspring ? As the arbor has a slit in the top, it's easy to watch it. If I wind it about 10 rotations, then let the spring down, the arbor only turns about 1 revolution I use Moebius 8217 on the barrel wall. I thought I might have used too much, so cleaned it and put very little on, and fitted a new mainspring. Any ideas ? Thanks (the pic is the old spring before cleaning !)
  8. I use a small ultrasonic - lighter fluid (naptha) for cleaning and isopropanol for rinsing. Worried about shellac dissolving, I tried an old pallet in IPA for 5 mins in the ultrasonic without any noticeable change
  9. I find the overcoil very difficult to work on as it is not resting on a flat surface. You need steady hands and make very small adjustments. I recently wrecked a Universal hairspring trying to make a tweek like the one you need. The overcoil somehow got wrapped in the coils.
  10. The experts use tweezers, but it's all a bit tight with those small ones. I found using Rodico and pegwood is less likely to result in springs flying off. I found the only way I could fit those small ones, was : 1. sticking it to some Rodico, then getting one side inserted (easier than tweezers) 2. using sharpened pegwood to hold the first side in place (put the tip inside the spring so it can't fly off) 3. use another bit of pegwood to press the other side down and slide it sideways. I made some tools - just the blunt end of sewing needles pushed in to pegwood, which are really useful for fiddling with shock springs.
  11. I too struggled until I carved some pegwood in to a tool as shown by @jdm The smaller one's used by Seiko on the gear train are the really fiddly ones - it's not easy to make a tool that small.
  12. Note that in Japanese movements the springs often wind the opposite way to the 'standard' Swiss movements. You can see in Mark's video above it has a RH bend. Therefore the standard spring winders don't work - the nib faces the wrong way and won't grab the spring. I'm working on a Citizen with a 10mm barrel, and had to use a 9mm winder bit to wind the spring the wrong way, then transfer the spring to the 10 mm bit to reverse it before putting in the barrel.
  13. Thanks. I thought it might be. There's a 039-039 balance on ebay for a 5430 - which is a similar movement to the 5204..
  14. I need a new balance for a Citizen 5204. There's some on ebay but I can't find the part number, 039 -??? I downloaded the service/technical manuals from here : www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/10466-heads-up-1971-citizen-technical-information-download-found but cannot find any parts list. Can anyone help out ? Thanks
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