Mainspring winders

[Marc]

I haven't measured one but it seems widely reported that the ID of the 7S26 barrel is either 10mm or 10.5mm.

If you check Cousins web site it lists the bergeon winders by size.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/watch-bergeon-winders-by-size

No.6 has a diameter of 9.8mm so woud be the right size.

[fireftr45]

Thank you all!!!  I am finding out that Seiko has discontinued making a lot of these mainsprings for 7S, 4R, 6R.  I guess they just want you to buy a new movement.  So a generic spring will most likely have to be sourced.  They don't even sell the barrel complete anymore. (or I just haven't found a viable source yet)

I have gotten a little frustrated lately, as I started purchasing spring winders from ebay.  The first turned out to be a pocket watch spring winder that is too deep and the spring winds up in a ball.  The second set I bought was an adjustable K&D 123, A & B, that fits the barrel but the right winding knob has the nib that grabs the spring hole worn off, so it won't wind.

I am still very new to this.  This is the first spring I am trying to wind up and it has been a source of stress so far.  The spring has gotten kinked several times so I just decided to keep practicing on it till the tail broke off last night.  I will say I almost had it once, but when trying to get the spring to let go of the knob, as I removed the winder knob the spring popped out.

I suppose I could just keep trying to find a newer knob for the 123A, but I am gravitating towards spending more for the Bergeon and be done with it.  My thinking is I could always add new drums one at a time as needed over time (as I don't have $1K+ to drop on a whole set).

Well again Thank You all for your help.  I will keep trying.

[transporter]

I'm afraid I can't help you either mate, but I expect you paid a pretty penny for a brand new set of bergeon winders and if it's a fault with the tool it's unacceptable, if for instance you had manage do pick up a set of chinese winders for a few quid you wouldn't mind so much, but for bergeon to have a fault I can understand your annoyance and frustration.

[clockboy]

The issue I had with the Bergeon was the slit that the spring enters was often too small. I therefore filed these slits (see pic) wider which is annoying considering the cost.I have never had a issue of a spring not ejecting.

 

[vinn3]

before using a spring winder,  get some experence winding the main spring by hand (thumbs - on a parts watch).

[digginstony]

Oh dear, don't be disappointed with your purchase. You've just equipped yourself with the best winder available today and with the full set will be able to tackle almost any alloy spring known to mankind.
Have you seen Marks video on using this type of winder... but with most things you need to learn how to use them. If you are birds nesting, this is probably due to failing to achieve a clean release from the winding arbor whilst retracting. The spring mentioned will be the blue number 6 from the set.
These winder are not specifically designed for the old steel spring, suggest some pre lubrication of the spring might help.
The red and blue dots do part company sometimes if pushed against. Still not an issue. Just note the winding direction of the arbor between the righties and lefties.
Are they a waste of money..NO SIR..they are worth every hard earned penny.
I note Mark seems to think you can pick up a desent used set on Ebay for a few hundred pounds. You'll be lucky Mark ! They hold there price a lot better than that.
If you decide to sell your set, you will have no problem finding a buyer.
Learning to handwind first is an excellent idea but not with something to small. I used to practice on a pocket watch barrel, size 16.


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[Blubarb]

Hi all.
Does this look like a complete winder? Are all the parts to successfully wind a spring visible?

Thanks,

John

[oldhippy]

Some come with different size arbors, my clock main springer winder did. Other than that, it looks ok.  

[Tmuir]

Yes other than different sized arbors its complete, but if you have access to a small lathe they are easy enough to make.

If you have the money consider getting an Ollie Baker style mainspring winder.

I have one identical to what is in your picture but have just ordered myself an Ollie Baker style mainspring winder

[Lc130]

I'm a very new hobbyist and don't currently have a winder.  I see that new Bergeons are very costly.   Will this set work for wristwatches?  Is there any reason to avoid this type of winder?

Thank you for any insight!

 

[rogart63]

Sure it will work. Had a set like it and some spring had to small or to large inner loop so wouldn't fit or was so tight it just was damaged when trying to remove.   Could be that all winder s have the same problem. 

[VWatchie]

I’m scouting eBay looking for a used Bergeon mainspring winder set like this. So far I’ve only used my fingers to replace mainsprings, and although it works, it is a delicate process, and I never feel perfectly confident doing it, and I’ve probably damaged (a bit) one or two mainsprings in the process.

Anyway, I’ve only just recently learned that not all mainsprings are wound in the same direction. Up until just a few days ago I had only serviced Vostok 24XX movements and a Unitas 6498 (following along the 2nd course on watchrepairlessons.com, good stuff BTW). However the movement I’m servicing now is a Poljot 2614.2H, and one of the differences is that its mainspring, unlike the Vostoks and the Unitas, is wound counter clockwise (inner to outer coil) when placed in the barrel.

Watching the video on how to use a Bergeon mainspring winder on watchrepairlessons.com, it is obvious (I guess?) that the winder used in the video wouldn’t work with my Poljot mainspring, as the hook on the mainspring winder tool is for mainsprings that are wound clockwise, and this brings me to my first question; Would the mainspring winder set I linked to work with both types of mainsprings, clockwise and counter-clockwise?

My second question is the result of trying to understand the listings of the Bergeon mainspring winders on cousinsuk.com. There are "left" and "right" handles, and "left" and "right" arbors for winders. I don’t understand what the "left" and "right" refers to, but my guess is that it determines the direction of the hook pulling the coil when wound into the winder barrel? Or, maybe it’s just a matter of the watch repairer being right or left handed? Or, something else?

If anyone can bring some light to my questions, or have some informational links to share, I’d be very happy!

 

[khunter]

Left or right refers to the direction of winding. 

Some winders will work in either direction, some are specific. Not sure about the one in the link, without a close up view of the hook it's hard to tell.

Generally speaking it's not a good idea to wind the spring into the barrel by hand as this can distort the spring into a cone shape which will cause friction inside the barrel. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by khunter

[jdrichard]

I have made a video on winding mainsprings. jdrichard01

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[jdrichard]

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[jdrichard]

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[rogart63]

Have a couple of incoming winders. A adjustable K&D and some others. Have high expectations on the K&D  winder.  Anyone tested such a winder? 

[jdrichard]

Have a couple of incoming winders. A adjustable K&D and some others. Have high expectations on the K&D  winder.  Anyone tested such a winder? 

This is the one that is held in a vice, correct?


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[rogart63]

13 hours ago, jdrichard said:

This is the one that is held in a vice, correct?


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Have that also. But this is the one. Not exactly this but the same. Borrowed picture .has an adjustable barrel from 8-11 mm 

[jdrichard]

Have that also. But this is the one. Not exactly this but the same. Borrowed picture .has an adjustable barrel from 8-11 mm 

I have many of these and my video on youtube shows how to use it.


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[VWatchie]

The "KENDRICK & DAVIS ADJUSTABLE MAINSPRING WINDER" looks like a really nifty tool! Probably a somewhat stupid question, but as there are two arbors, I take it that one side is for clockwise wounded springs and the other side is for counter-clockwise wounded springs? In that case, and if it works well enough, it looks like the ideal tool for those of us who are passionate hobby repairers!?

[jdrichard]

The "KENDRICK & DAVIS ADJUSTABLE MAINSPRING WINDER" looks like a really nifty tool! Probably a somewhat stupid question, but as there are two arbors, I take it that one side is for clockwise wounded springs and the other side is for counter-clockwise wounded springs? In that case, and if it works well enough, it looks like the ideal tool for those of us who are passionate hobby repairers!?

They are not for left and right, they are for different size spring sizes at the arbour.


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[teegee]

I bought the what looks to be the same "Bergeon" set from a watch fair in Holland. The seller had even put a nice yellow Bergeon label on the box. It was a good deal and it works great, but it isn't a proper Bergeon. I don't particularly care, but I was kinda miffed that I fell for the scam.

As others said, this only winds in one direction. Another problem with it is that the arbor sizes are rather large. I was trying to wind in a 2824 mainspring yesterday, and the winder arbor size was twice the diameter of the barrel arbor (and would completely stretch it). I wonder if a proper Bergeon set uses much thinner arbors.

Sometimes I fall back on my trusty old winder, which has the benefit that it's much easier to make new arbors for. The hook on my new arbors allows winding in both directions. I've also drilled out the hook in existing winder arbors in the same set in order to replace them with a bidirectional variant. One of the arbors I made before was perfect for winding the 2824 spring. 

I've added some pictures of the old set and new arbors below.

Cheers!

      Rob

[chadders1966]

It's been mentioned a few times on here before but you don't really need to be able to wind in both directions, although it is simpler. You can wind the mainspring and if it needs to go in the other direction you can push it out into a small circular object (washer, nut, empty mainspring ring etc.) flip that over and press out - direction reversed.

I have the same set as you (teegee) and I find it good, but as you have noticed the arbours are often too big. I sometimes use smaller size handles with the barrels and this works well providing it isn't too loose. I do wonder if older mainsprings used smaller arbours as I have not had this problem with older mainspring winders. I don't often work with modern watches so I'm just guessing.

I wouldn't worry about the branding, it's not as if you'd get any better tool if it said Bergeon. In fact it probably comes from exactly the same factory anyway. It's not as if Bergeon really make anything very much (if at all) they either contract others to do it or just buy in products and brand them.

Rogart I've used that winder before. Although it works I found it difficult to control, perhaps because I have big fingers. I much prefer the handle style of winder.

[VWatchie]

I must say, trying to find a decent set of mainspring winders (and understanding what that would be) has proved a lot more complicated than I had thought it would be. What do you think of this set? In a private message the seller  wrote to me:

"Hi not entirely sure as got this from watchmakers estate but i try my best to answer. The handle has two pins rather than a hook so suggests it could spin both ways."

Edited April 12, 2018 by VWatchie