Mainspring lubrication, manual and automatic

[matabog]

I put a small blob of kluber in each of the 6 indendts of an eta barrel

[Lawson]

I put a small blob of kluber in each of the 6 indendts of an eta barrel

 

Yup.  Just blob some of the black tar on a few spots on the barrel wall ... I don't think there's any real special method.  By the time you've worn the watch for a few hours it's going to be smeared pretty much over the complete wall by the slipping of the spring.

 

The real question is how do you get kluber off your oiler tip!!!! :huh: That stuff is just plain nasty!!

[matabog]

Rodico + cleaning fluid (benzine, isopropanol)

 

Methil-Ethil-Cetone

Triclorethilene

 

Fire!

 

Throw it away...

[Gary]

Another question related to automatics and 8217. Can 8217 be pushed in any type barrel? I see 8212 and 13 are for specific barrels, e.g., alum or brass?

I need to purchase any of the three and don't know which.

[Davey57]

I came across this in among a selection of watches I bought as spares or repair. I have picked it up loads of times and not given it too much attention but the other day I noticed it was marked .375 which seems to indicate it is 9ct. It is a ladies Bentima Star, it was trying to work so I thought it might be nice to try and fix it up and rescue it.

 

Not sure that the hands are original, they don't seem to match the watch. Thinking they might have originally been gold coloured to match the numbers on the dial.

 

 

Almost all stripped here.

 

In the tray ready for cleaning.

 

I have it all cleaned now and I did not find anything obvious as to why it wasn't working so I am hoping it just needs cleaning and oiling.

Which brings me to the reason for the post. I have taken the mainspring out to clean etc but noticed that it was bone dry with not a sign of lub anywhere. So should I apply some lub when I rebuild it or not? Would the oils that I have for Seikos be suitable for the movement. I have Moebius, D5, 9010, 8200 and 8213.

Also, would the stem have had any kind of a seal on? There was just some disgusting material inside the crown that I cleaned out and it resembled what might have been a felt washer. If it wasn't a felt washer I would rather not think what it might have been.

I'd be glad for anyone's advice.

Thanks.

 

 

[clockboy]

I use Moebius 8200 & it seems to work well. Many will have different ideas I expect.

[bobm12]

 

I use Moebius 8200 & it seems to work well. Many will have different ideas I expect.

Maybe, but not me, CB! :)

 

There are also other oils out there I believe used depending on material of drum or if the spring is for an automatic or if you are putting it directly on the drum before the mainspring or if you are putting it on the mainspring after it is in the drum or... well, too many options.

 

What CB says is the most practical way for me and it works perfectly!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[Davey57]

Ok that's good enough for me. Might as well be using it on something considering how much it costs.

Thanks for your help.

[clockboy]

I only lube normal mainsprings not auto mainsprings. I read somewhere not to so I don,t.

However I do lube the barrel rim of the auto,s. with a non slip grease. Also when fitting a new mainspring these require no lube as they already have some sort of lube on them I think I read somewhere it is a teflon coating. 

[JohnR725]

Lubrication for mainsprings is an interesting question. Depending upon whose mainspring and the package you look at most the modern mainsprings are claimed to be Self lubricated. In other words modern mainsprings don't need lubrication. This is where if you look at modern repair sheets for mainspring replacement they show lubrication of the arbor only. If it's an automatic they will talk about the breaking grease on barrel wall but no mention of mainspring lubrication because it's prelubricated.

 

So does pre-lubrication last forever? Then because we can't see it and were not replacing the mainspring then lubrication is nice. So 8200 is a classic mainspring lubrication.

 

Then the PDF below has an article on lubrication page 5 has a reference to old-fashioned 8200 no longer needed. But it is assuming were replacing the mainspring which more than likely were not going to if it still looks functional.

 

 

http://www.awci.com/wp-content/uploads/ht/August2012.pdf

[Davey57]

Thanks for that. There is a lot of interesting reading in that document, I will save it and read it all the way through.

[Dawagner]

Sorry to bring this one back to life. My local supply house has 8212. It says this is a weak breaking grease for barrels. Is this an acceptable substitute for 8217?

[vinn3]

"weak  breaking grease"  i have never heard that statement,  what does it mean?

[Dawagner]

That's what has me questioning it as well. Here is the description from startimesupply.com

Moebius Classical Grease, 20ml, Glissalube B, for the walls of alloy, aluminum, nickel plated, barrels (weak braking) 

[jdm]

On 11/16/2016 at 5:03 PM, Dawagner said:

That's what has me questioning it as well. Here is the description from startimesupply.com

Braking is referred to the action of a grease that prevents the mainspring bridle slipping on the barrel wall during normal working, but still allows slipping when the spring is fully wound and either automatic or the manual wind continues.

[Dawagner]

Braking is referred to the action of a grease that prevents the mainspring bridle slipping on the barrel wall during normal working, but still allows slipping when the spring is fully wound and either automatic or the manual wind continues.

Yes I get that but what about the "weak" part. The main question I had was is 8212 a ok substitute for 8217.

[jdm]

Yes I get that but what about the "weak" part. The main question I had was is 8212 a ok substitute for 8217.

Weak as opposted to strong, these are quantifier of said braking action.
Moebius make a great number of products which are, in the end, similar. I would not lose sleep substituting one for another.

[Cmmb8519]

Does anyone apply any lubrification to new mainsprings or just to the barrel? I only apply to the barrel, but last I got from CounsinsUK seem quite dry and I'm concerned it might not have enought lub.

It was for an old Seiko Presmatic 5106 and these mainsprings might not sell too frequently.

 

Many thanks

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

 

[clockboy]

I don't lubricate new mainsprings but do apply the appropriate lubrication  to the barrel wall for automatic watch springs.

[praezis]

Hi,

modern mainsprings are Teflon coated and need no lubrificating.

Frank

[jdm]

16 minutes ago, praezis said:

modern mainsprings are Teflon coated and need no lubrificating.

All are? I don't think so. I've checked Générale Ressorts (the brand sold by Cousins as generic) website and they say nothing about teflon.

The comment by clockboy above is correct.

[oldhippy]

Original Seiko automatic barrel unit’s m/springs had breaking grease.  Kluber p125 will do the trick.  

[Wdc]

On 7/19/2014 at 8:15 AM, Mark said:

Moebius 8217 is braking grease for the barrel walls

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hello Mark, I procrastinated in buying braking grease and now I'm ready to reassemble a Seiko 6139 automatic. I will order 8217 but in the meantime (for this build) can I use one of the following which I have on hand.

Moebius 9010, D-5, 8000, 9501?

Thank you, Will

[Mark]

4 hours ago, Wdc said:

Hello Mark, I procrastinated in buying braking grease and now I'm ready to reassemble a Seiko 6139 automatic. I will order 8217 but in the meantime (for this build) can I use one of the following which I have on hand.

Moebius 9010, D-5, 8000, 9501?

Thank you, Will

Sorry to say - neither of those lubricants have the correct properties to act as a braking grease.

[rduckwor]

On 7/22/2014 at 7:41 PM, anilv said:

 

 

The manufacturer's recommendation is to replace the barrel complete.

This seems to be a problem with some Seiko models and the barrel complete is no longer available.  While it is a PITA to open a Seiko barrel to withdraw the mainspring, it can and probably should be done.

RMD