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Wdc

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Everything posted by Wdc

  1. Sorry hade not open your photos, it appears you've already disassembled the assembly . Your 2nd photo shows the clutch pressure plate which is staked to the 3rd wheel subassembly and the bottom of the clutch itself. I would be curious to see the flip side of the clutch (top side and raise collar) and to know how you were able to get it off of the pivot shaft without damaging the pivot? Did you punch the shaft down through the collar and if so, were you able to do it without damaging the pivot? Take care and looking forward to your response
  2. When addressing only a loose 3rd wheel I found a less invasive and risky approach. Where I originally felt I could re-stake the wheel what I found while disassembling the chronograph assembly is that the 3th wheel is part of a three-part assembly including the pressure plate of the clutch. In short, you cannot get to the 3rd wheel without unstking the clutch pressure plate. After reevaluating the risk as it related to the objective (secure the 3rd wheel). I found a less invasive approach which I've outlined in this link (bottom of page 1, continuing over to page 2). http://wristsushi.proboards.com/thread/19076/seiko-repair-procedure-center-chronograph I am getting much better at disassembling the chronograph assemblies, in fact I just replaced the date finger wheel on one of my units with no complications. The problem with a complete disassembly is removing the clutch off of the pivot shaft. It appears to be cramped and would require a very small stake to fit over the pivot and drive the shaft through the clutch hub. Good luck and feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions. Will
  3. Thanks, rogart63, nice tools and 2281 looks like just what I need, I’ll keep and eye out for a second hand one. Until I can find the proper tool I am thinking of a jig as follows. My primary focus is aimed at setting the jewel the right deep in the fork before shellac. Not deep enough, and the escape wheel teeth will not pass the jewel, too deep and it will free-wheel. As I see it the relative measurement is from pivot to (out-facing) edge of jewel(s). My thought for achieving this was the following · use a plastic base, drill a hole to fit pivot shaft, just over .28mm (firm fit .29-30mm) · Using a NOS pallet glue to the base (3) three stops. One for top edge of each jewel, a stop on ether side of fork to lock it into position. By doing the above I can lock-in the fork, insert each jewel (set at right length). With everything set same as NOS, carefully lift out the fork, moving it to heating plate for shellac. For the base I will use ether 1/8" white Acrylic Plexiglass or Canvas Phenolic (which I have an abundance). Care has to be made with the jewel stops making the short, so that when lifting the pallet fork out of the jig it comes out & free, without moving jewel. Well again I thank all for your input. Regards, Will Below is a (very) rough example of what I am thinking.
  4. Has anyone ever setup a jig for setting the jewels in a particular pallet fork in order to make the job easier? Finding NOS Citizen 8110A forks is getting near impossible. I have just purchased the last of Jules Borel stock of 035-39 PALLET FORK AND ARBOR and I have not been able to find any more NOS (or used) forks. I do have a few 035-39’s in various states of disrepair, mainly needing re-jeweled but getting the jewels set right is a pain in the a**. Just wondering if anyone’s set up a fork jig, locking it in place, with a stop for the jewels so they are the same length and right position every time without the trouble of putting them in and out of the watch to check before heating and resin? If you have any tips or tips on a better way of positioning, I would luv some advice . I have been following this, anything better? FITTING THE PALLET Thanks, Will PS I have not found a video or advice from @Mark
  5. Thank you, you have an observant eye and good question. Based on the before pic it does not look like the same chapter, but honestly, I can remember anymore. As part of this process I have collected a number of these Citizen’s i.e. complete watches, cases and parts. I am a Seiko guy but have grown to appreciate the 8110A, there a bit more complex . Take care and all the best
  6. Thank you for your kind words. If you recall you helped me out early on in this project which resulted me in tearing down a number of these 8110A while leaning to master them. All my best to you,
  7. Gentlemen, for those that wanted to follow this disassembly it seems that I (by mishap) have failed you. I lost my step by step photos showing the disassembly, when getting a message on my tablet photos where being saved on my SD card do to space it turned out, it was defective, and photos lost. Summary: the operation (for the most part) was a success, sadly the patient died ☹ Starting, I did find I had a fourth wheel with a tooth missing, making the loss easier to take. After studying @Dahasco photos, it was clear that the assembly (i.e. retaining washer, minute counter, heart-reset, spring clutch) was stacked on the extended second chrono shaft, retained by the staked washer. The challenge started with finding away to back-up the parts while using a stake to drive the shaft down though the staked retainer-washer and subsequent parts. The tool I decided on was a (modified) case splitter, flipping the dies over and squaring them so that I could fit the die edge between the heart and spring, essentially backing up the heart. Using a stake, I tapped the pivot-shaft down though the washer, freeing the minute counter, heart-reset, leaving (on the shaft) the spring and fourth wheel. Now, this is where the patient died and one should take note. The above working so well, it thought I would proceed backing up under the spring assy, driving the pivot-shaft. This was a mistake, as I did not understand the spring assy is two parts. The upper spring half which includes an incorporated collar that fits over the shaft and a bottom backing plate (a fly-wheel of sort) which is attached to the fourth wheel. By backing up under the spring backing plate, tapping down on the shaft is bent the plate and damaged the spring. Patient died. What did I learn and what to do different? The top half of the spring that needs to come off after the heat-reset is fitted to it’s own shaft collar. There are some groves on the collar that I could use my back-up tool to hold and drive the pivot-shaft though it. Closing: I am sad I lost the photos as it shows (those that follow me) that each part comes off without any damage. Springs then can be saved (harvested) and used elsewhere. The photo of the chronograph wheel (compete) in the back up tool is a second chrono just to show you how it was fitted. I am not ready to disassemble it yet. Need time to maul the post-mortem before committing. Also based on this exercise I have anther idea how to fix a loose fourth wheel without disassembling the chrono assy. Well I wish you all good luck and however takes this to the next step, please keep me posted. Will Concussion Again, had I understood that the spring was two half’s I could have disassembled the chronograph wheel without damaging the spring. Now whether this is wroth while, I am not sure. I guess if one had a chrono with a pivot, one could interchange the shaft, ect. This is yet to be seen. For me the challenge was can a chronograph wheel be disassembled. I believe my next shot now understanding how the spring is assembled that I can demonstrate it can, without breaking any part including the spring.
  8. This has been a challenging restoration, just finished it today. Rags to Riches I’m a Seiko guy, but have come to appreciate these 8110A Citizens
  9. Thanks @rogart63 Your input is always appreciated and cleared up one of the mysteries I had with Dahasco’s post photos. The first couple of photo appears to be a metallic retaining washer, which I now think it is, originally thought is was a long collar passing though the top three assy parts, (mine is also metallic with no staking marks). Starting on the third photo the washer changes to brass, with a clear staking ring .5mm off the bore. the change in the washer from metallic to brass must be Dahasco using more than one of the units you sent to him. You can really see the staking of the retaining washer on the sixth photo. Anther interesting point is the machined step in the bottom side of the washer, with I assume fits into the brass “Chronograph Finger for the Minute Intermediate Wheel”. Again all of this is based on a lot of assumptions on my part, while looking though the work Dahasco has provided. What I have not worked out is why on the metallic washers there is no sign of staking, leading me to think it could be an interference fit pressed onto the shaft. A little more research on my end before committing my chrono wheel, filling in working on a Citizen 8110A bullhead I just received parts for. Take care
  10. Attached is a link provided by@bodo over in wristsushi that offers some insight http://wristsushi.proboards.co...16502/6139-chrono-wheel?page=2 on stripping down the chrono assy. Still have some questions but getting closer. Sent from my SM-T817T using Tapatalk
  11. Thank you @rogart63 for taking the time to respond. Should you come across the tool it would be a big help to see a photo and/or a sketch of where the tool fit and how it functioned. I am envisioning some type of puller that the clutch plate or the (heavy wall collar as seen at the top around the shaft) and a pin that pushes down on the pivot shaft. I could be all wet just a vision based on nothing. A picture would be with a 1000 words. In my case(s) nether of my chronos have broken clutch springs, both are the fourth wheel pushed up and popping the staking. How do I know, I pushed against the wheel and heard them pop free spinning on the shaft? Not once, but twice, stupid I know! That said if I can press off the tree parts above the wheel I can re-stake the wheel down then refit the 3 part assy. Thank you again and take care, Will
  12. SEIKO 6138/6139 Repair Procedure of CENTER CHRONOGRAPH WHEEL PREAMBLE: My Quest for a Repair Procedure of Seiko 6139B CENTER CHRONOGRAPH WHEEL (PN. 888612) I have on several occasions searched for information on how to repair the infamous Seiko (6138, 6139) CENTER CHRONOGRAPH WHEEL, to no avail. Threads about the subject matter are generally sprinkled with authoritative sounding comments that they cannot be repaired. My question is why? Why can the number of parts stacked on the extended pivot shaft, stacked above the fourth wheel not be lifted off of the shaft, giving access to the fourth wheel staking location? In my case I have 2 chronos where the staking on top of the fourth wheel, holding it in place, has loosened making the wheel loose)? Logic leads me to believe, if I remove the 2-3 clutch parts (above the fourth wheel) off the top of the shaft, exposing the top of the fourth wheel, I could re-stake it and then re-install the parts in sequence, thus repairing my problem. MY QUESTION: Has anyone had success removing the stack of clutch parts above the fourth wheel and/or know of and literature explaining the procedure? NOTE (6138B): interesting that the Center Chronograph Wheel PN.888611 is listed, as one part, (a complete) and in the diagram it is shown as one-part, but in the part list there are a number of additional parts listed. I’m assuming this is the stack of parts sitting above the fourth wheel that make up the (complete). So with all of this said, how do we lift these parts off the shaft without damaging them and the chrono ASSY so that the fourth wheel can be re-staked? Thanks in advance, Will
  13. Solved – Removing outer bezel A special thanks to @mikeyt_53 (WTF) for responding and relating your experience. These comments along with a number of YouTube video’s, in particular (below) stopped me from second guessing myself, resulting in successfully removing the TAG bezel. For those that follow I succeeded using the following method. 1. Working a knife edge between the case and bottom of bezel, lifting the bezel enough I could spray (into the hex-spring groves) penetrating oil. 2. With the knife holding a small gap I worked in a small jeweler’s flat screwdriver, widening the gap a bit. 3. Using a second small flat screwdriver I worked the gap around the bezel bottom until the bezel popped off the case. Note: that before using this method I tried using a four point case-splitter which did not work. Again, thank you & good luck Will
  14. A Bounce, still looking for help on TAG Heuer bezel removal
  15. Removing Rotating Bezel - Help Needed Is there anyone in the forum that has experience and/or knowledge removing the outer rotating bezel. I am assuming it has the hexagon (or muli-gon) spring between the bezel and case, as it ratchets when rotating. I have put light presser with a case splitter to lift the bezel, but it’s not popping off. Thought is best to reach out before damaging anything. Model if needed is 980-0208 Thanks in advance, Will
  16. Good Morning Gentlemen (i.e. @Nucejoe, @rodabod), A quick note to let you know that I apricate your above advise and to let you know I have not abandoned you. Even though I am to the most part retired, I do still occasionally consult for some of my valued customers on specialty drilling projects, mostly overseas. I am, more or less, a fire fighter they contact when things go amuck, requiring me to drop everything and focus on their problem. With things back to normal I picked up a Seiko 6139-6002 that was striped and cleaned, and waiting for reassembly, focusing on something I know before revisiting the Citizen. That said, I found myself re-reading all your comments to solidify it in my fading mind and I again thank you both. PS: the bench is again lit and alive
  17. Correction after looking closer, its not off 90°. From first glace the RJ looks to be lined up within the fork while it sits on the left banking pin. I need to go back and find @MARK video on this, cant recall if the center between the banking pins when lining up the RJ. I am assuming I can use the regulator on the balance cock for small adjustment and do not need to mess with the collet?
  18. Also, I going to circle back around on the Citizen base plate stamping of “L or R” (below in photos), does anyone know what this signifies? The 8110A I have been working on is stamped “L” and when cracking open a 8200 I see it stamped “R”. I am thinking this may sig what side of the fork to position the RJ. I have scanned the net and find no reference to the letters. Any thoughts?
  19. Gentlemen thank you for the in-depth response. The problem does appear to be associated with the positioning of the roller jewel (RJ). I do recall watching Marks video on lining up the jewel with the forks while in a resting position. I was just hoping to not have to get into it so soon…lol I am reflecting on the numerous installing of the Balance ASSY while trying to work this out and I have been having to turn the bridge 90° from its mounting position in order to line up the RJ with the center of the fork. To someone more experienced that would have been a dead give-away. Give me a bit to read and re-read your comments as a lot of what I read on first glance was fussy-jargon to a newbe. Thanks again and, “I Will Be Back”. Will
  20. Thank you for that, excellent video! I have been trying to eliminate being on the wrong side of the fork with the roller jewel by positioning the jewel between the two forks. In some movement its hard or impossible to see but in this case, I have a clear unobstructed view. I was led to believe you could do this to prevent overbanking if you do not know what side to place the jewel, left or right. This does Segway to the question of how does one know from caliber to caliber if your to position left or right? I have noticed a “L” stamped into the base plate (framework) near the pallet fork and was wondering if this was a indicator. Photo of “L” attached note the "L" below the pallet fork bridge. Thank you for your response, I will study this area a bit closer.
  21. Hello Joe, just wondering if you have time to offer a recommendation. 

    Thanks in advance,

    Will

     

    1. Nucejoe

      Nucejoe

      Hi Will,     I gladly be at disposal. Joe

  22. I am seeking advice on how to address a problem I am having on the re-assembly of the 8110A movement. Preamble: This was a project watch purchased for restoration. I do not recall if the movement ran smooth without the balance stopping before strip-down. The Cal was stripped, cleaned, inspected, re-assembled, train runs smooth without pallet fork Problem: cannot keep Balance Wheel (BW) in motion, keeps hanging up in the same spot, when balance rotates clockwise with the balance spoke about 10-oclock. 1. When I inspect, I can see the roller jewel against the right side of the fork 2. When I apply a bit of pressure on the BW, more to the right clockwise the jewel will push past center of the fork and the BW keeps turning right. 3. The BW will do the same if pressed counter-clockwise (CCW) past the fork but it does not hang up CCW as you can see in the video 4. I have inspected the Roller Jewel it looks ok, not chipped, broken or loss 5. Pallet fork looks ok The problem appears to be the roller jewel hitting the fork on the right side and wedging. Any thought and/or recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks, Will
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