Removing Balance

[SteveT]

N00b question but I've seen two recommended methods to remove the balance assembly from the movement, and now I'm confused which is the best / more correct ?

1. is to lift the balance cock and very gently remove it by just holding the cock and making sure as to not snag the balance wheel. so that the wheel hangs on the hair spring, as per Mark's videos. Also when using this method how does one go about flipping it over to lay it in the parts tray, other than very carefully ..

2. is to pick it up by holding the balance cock and wheel together in your tweezers, as per the picture attached (sorry for the blurry mobile phone pic).

So which is the most correct way and more importantly why? Which way should a n00b like myself be using. 

[matabog]

I am curious at what the elderly have to say about that!

 

p.s. - I use the first method

[rogart63]

I use the second method. As i am elderly i tend to shake a little making the first method difficult.  But that can be risky and i think u can bend the pivot if you hold to tight? On balances that has a jewel that you can remove . I do that and put it back after i have put the balance back on the movement? 

[StuartBaker104]

I'm an option 1, to prevent any possible damage to the pivots.

I usually place the assembly on a soft worksurface to then turn over.

I like to think I am not one of the elderly though...

S

[rodabod]

I use both methods. I've once tangled a hairspring using method one (balance suddenly sprung upwards due to sticky lower jewel). I've once bent a lower balance pivot using method 2 since the lower pivot was stuck again, and the balance always lifts at an angle when you use this method.

 

I usually go for method 1, and use method 2 if the balance is sticky. If it is too sticky, then I pick up an oiler in my other hand and use it to persuade the balance wheel to lift.

[oldhippy]

Method 1 for me.

[jdm]

Same question and same answers:

http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/5694-propper-way-to-remove-a-balance/

I recommend you use method 2. just as shown on the textbook. Personally I use tweezers with wide, round tips for that.

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by jdm

[madchops67]

I use the first method to avoid damage to the hairspring, just in case it's gets nicked by being compressed against the balance wheel and balance cock.


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[jdm]

2 minutes ago, madchops67 said:

I use the first method to avoid damage to the hairspring, just in case it's gets nicked by being compressed against the balance wheel and balance cock.

That can't happen, because the shape of the upper pivot into the balance cock hole the makes so that there is always a certain space between the wheel and balance body.

On the other hand, when you keep the wheel dangling by the hairspring, the latter can get distorted by catching int something, or by the wheel weight itself.

[madchops67]

That can't happen, because the shape of the upper pivot into the balance cock hole the makes so that there is always a certain space between the wheel and balance body.
On the other hand, when you keep the wheel dangling by the hairspring, the latter can get distorted by catching int something, or by the wheel weight itself.

It happened to me once before, maybe because I gripped to hard with the tweezers and the outer part of the spring end up distorted. It may have been pinched or rubbed against the balance cock. That is jus my experience, so that's why I use the first method.


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[Geo]

I use option 1 all the time.

[digginstony]

I prefer option 1 but use option 2 if the whim takes me.
I like to lift the cocktail and rotate so it sits on the movement leaving the upper staff pivot loose. Then lift the lower pivot out its jewel. Then lift the assembly. That way you'll not end up with a jumbled mess if sticking pivots in the jewel hole.
On old pocket watches there is a third option.
3. Loosen the stud retaining screw. Push the stud down away from the balance cock. Remove the balance cock. Then remove balance wheel and staff. It can then be reassembled on the worktop.

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[digginstony]

That should read "Lift the cock" not cocktail [emoji2]

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[mikepilk]

I find that a cocktail first helps steady the nerves 

And No. 1 method for me

Edited April 25, 2017 by mikepilk

[anilv]

Method 2 for me..

But you need to ensure that the cock is free off its locating pins first, if not, the whole lot will come away suddenly and screw things up.

Anilv

 

[RyMoeller]

I'd have to say it depends a bit on the movement.  In some movements the center wheel is very large and will cover a good portion of the balance making option 2 difficult.  Other times, if the movement hasn't been serviced in quite a while or you know the balance pivots may stick, option 1 goes out the door. 

I generally use the first option but with a caveat; Once the balance cock is loosed I'll lift it and shift it slightly to release the top pivot from the jewel, then lift the balance wheel up out of the bottom pivot before removing the entire assembly.

[digginstony]

That can't happen, because the shape of the upper pivot into the balance cock hole the makes so that there is always a certain space between the wheel and balance body.
On the other hand, when you keep the wheel dangling by the hairspring, the latter can get distorted by catching int something, or by the wheel weight itself.

If you use method one you don't need to leave the hairspring dangling. I use a balance stand and a bit of rodico and it could sit on its standard for years if necessary. Have attached some pictures for demo. Just remember when taking the balance assembly of the stand to hold the wheel gently incase lower pivot sticks in the rodico. Then release from the rodico.
I think people prefer method 2 to avoid having to flip the wheel over when working on the balance.

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[WatchMaker]

Great question ... and answers!

I've always gone for option 2 as it has served me well but I might start using option 1 for some of the reasons given.

And digginstony I am so getting (or making) myself a balance stand! 

Edited April 27, 2017 by WatchMaker

[Wesley881]

On 4/24/2017 at 5:31 PM, digginstony said:

I prefer option 1 but use option 2 if the whim takes me.
I like to lift the cocktail and rotate so it sits on the movement leaving the upper staff pivot loose. Then lift the lower pivot out its jewel. Then lift the assembly. That way you'll not end up with a jumbled mess if sticking pivots in the jewel hole.
On old pocket watches there is a third option.
3. Loosen the stud retaining screw. Push the stud down away from the balance cock. Remove the balance cock. Then remove balance wheel and staff. It can then be reassembled on the worktop.

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I use this method so I can sneak up on it, save for the third method there that I haven't thought of, pretty slick!

BTW I just got one of those balance stands/tacks and it's extremely useful.

[rogart63]

On 4/24/2017 at 11:36 PM, digginstony said:

That should read "Lift the cock" not cocktail

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What has that to do with this? Better to let it swing? 

[digginstony]

What has that to do with this? [emoji4] Better to let it swing? 

Yep it's more of a swing than a vertical lift, to move the balance bridge from its fixing stud or studs Then ease the lower pivot from its jewel but it still necessitates a slight lifting motion ??

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