Endeavor

Inspired again by @VWatchie affectionate passion for Russian watches, I just given another Vostok a total service; out of the darkness of the drawer into the daylight. This time a Komandirskie "Red star" 3AKA MO CCCP. It seems pretty original and is in nice condition, but since I'm personally not so attracted to these "golden cases", it will some day go on the Bay. Dial down; Hopefully I can make somebody happy with it and that it gets the wrist time it deserves

@VWatchie: it's to hope that more people on this forum will get bitten by the Russian watch "bug" ! For people who are interested in servicing the Poljot 3133 (31659) (the old Swiss Valjoux 7734); I did a walk-through a bit more then a year ago; https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/6189-poljot-31659-chronograph-service/?tab=comments#comment-62446 So far, I also don't have much experience with other Russian watch-brands either. There are probably valid reasons why Poljot , Molnija and Vostok are well known brands. In the end of the day, Poljot & Molnija are ex-Swiss ...... Looking very much forward in seeing more (people with) Russian watches, talk about them, exchange (modification) ideas or chase the more rare examples...... even though I have "a few", I just can't get enough ...... I enjoy very much that you are one of Russian watch fans !

Found some more in the drawer ..... and "finally"(?) an immaculate N.O.S. Molnija 3602 Serkisof "Rail road" pocket watch; The Molnija's do have an interesting background and the 3602 movement was used, among others, by Rolex. I sold off a more rare N.O.S. Molnija "Rail road watch" with a "shock-proof" 3603 movement; Here is some more information about Molnija: http://linuxfocus.org/~guido/molnija-pocket-watch/

To add to the Russian watch fun, I opened the drawer (sorry not an Ikea ) and pulled my working Russian watches out. I do have more Russian "projects" (Vostok & Poljot) to assemble, but with already so many watches to choose from, these "projects" have to wait ...... Sorry for the poor picture quality, my Japanese camera did "funny" today ....... perhaps affected by the heat-wave? The Vostoks below do have various types of Vostok movements; 2209, 2409, 2415, 2416B The watch below has a well made, but fake dial ...... unfortunately even the Vostok (eBay) market gets flooded with fake dials, especially the "sought after" older (USSR-, CCCP & 3AKA3-dials. Vostok 2209 movement. Top twp dials are originals, bottom one is fake; Nearly original N.O.S. Poljot Sturmanskie 3133 (wrong chronograph seconds-hand, the original hand got damaged when I, after nearly 30 years, pulled it off for a watch service. I still have to find a way to repair the original hand pipe-bushing ) Original N.O.S.Poljot Sturmanskie 31659 but in a different new, original 1980's Poljot housing: As @VWatchie says, the Vostoks are AKA AK47 but can be a bit "off". However if you spend enough time in adjusting them (while wearing), they can run pretty accurate. Some of my watches run on the wrist within +2 sec / day........ better than my Rolex ! Be very aware of 3133 "Franken" Poljots !! There are many fake dials out there too ....... Here a link to educate yourself of what could be fake, but the list has grown a lot longer since ....... : http://www.polmax3133.com/guide.html Hope this forum will get some more Russian watch enthusiast ......... Hmmm ......... which one shall I wear today ??

@oldhippy: I like your approach. We all, and all the new posters do their best. Of course, nobody is perfect and so now and then we need a gentle, moderate touch in the right direction. Still miss moderator Bobm12 (Bob) who, next to his know-how, brought also humor to the forum and made you feel "home". I've done a quite intensive search to find out what happened to him, but all trails (also on other forums he was a member of) go cold and (email) addresses are all suspended. Unless somebody knows better, it seems to me that he sadly is not among us anymore. He was/is of the same age as I'm, begin 60's. I wholeheartedly agree with @dadistic : "I think things will be just fine, and I certainly appreciate all the work that goes into maintaining this forum".  @anilv: This forum needs people like you ....... lessons are now learned. Please reconsider ..... !!

Very nice collection with some exclusive dials ........ how do you some the problem "which one and when to wear"?

@StuartBaker104 Very nice Stuart! Another learning curve and experiences under your belt Lets hope it now has become, next to a very nice decorative piece, a functional piece as well ! Believe it or not, I'm now into stripping / restoring / reassembling a high quality sewing machine and learn how to sew / make outdoor equipment (tarp, hammock etc) ......... in the last couple of months no time spent on watches / clocks. There is so much to learn in the whole spectrum of mechanical things and (old) skills ............

Good news ....... now you know where (roughly) the problem lays Congrats

From a distance it is hard to judge how much "side-play" you are talking about. There is always some play between the pivot and the jewel, but too much play is not good either. Did you check all the jewels with a great magnification? Whether there is (oval) wear or that the jewel is perhaps cracked. If the escape wheel pivot has too much play, this could be a reason why the watch suddenly stops. As I've written above, you have to systematic go through the watch. See what in your opinion 100% works. A process of elimination so to speak. If you find that the train is running smooth, but somehow things start to get less smooth around the escape wheel / pallet fork / balance, than concentrate on those items to see if you can find anything wrong, like a worn / broken / chipped jewel, worn or bend pivots, bend / worn escape-wheel teeth or anything else odd. Take your time to study and use at least 5x or 10x magnification. Have a good look at the balance as well and / or the anti-shock cap-stones and Chatons are nice level in their settings. Are the jewels of the pallet fork still 100%? It's a relative simple movement, so if the train is good and smooth running, and with the hour-wheel disconnected, then there aren't many parts left; the escape / pallet / balance. It may be an idea to study how an Swiss escapement exactly works. There is a lot of information given in these videos and play them as many times a required until you fully understand the escapement, if you didn't already? ;-) As you can see, all needs to be perfect harmony .......

@arkobugg; I would start checking the hands, whether they touch each other. Set them in another position and see what happens. Look "flat" (horizontal) over the dial and turn the hands (the full 12 hours) and see if they are free of each other and the dial. Check also the little seconds hand. Try this with crown pulled out and pushed in. If that doesn't improve, take the hands and dial off, remove the hour wheel. This will disengage the keyless works and the movement is "free" to run / move. If the movement doesn't run, the trouble is somewhere in the movement. "Kick start" the balance and see if the pallet fork has energy to "jump" and whether the escape wheel like to move with "gusto". If that doesn't work, remove the balance assembly and see if the pallet fork "jumps" backward and forward if you carefully touch it. The escape wheel should power the pallet fork and move one teeth at the time. If the escape wheel doesn't progress, the problem is somewhere in the train, spring barrel or spring. If the escape wheel has enough power, then the pallet fork may be the problem ..... Basically, work you way backwards and see if you can spot the problem. Of course there comes a point by which you have to take the power off the mainspring. After you took the residual power out of the spring, removed the "click" and you can "hand-power" the spring barrel / train with a pegwood. After you removed the pallet fork, the train including the escape wheel should turn without effort either way. Try with very little power to see if there is a "tight" spot in the train. Suc6

You are welcome Of course, it isn't all that hard and one learns from sharing tips & tricks. I learned a lot of (Rodeco) tips & tricks from José ........ a very inspiring walk-through: http://www.hablemosderelojes.com/forum/showthread.php?67039 Pictures say more than a thousand (Spanish) words Thanks again José !

Hello All; I managed to get a NOS Molnija Pocket watch from a collector who passed away. Before I do this relative simple walkthrough, I read up on this iconic Russian pocket-watch and like to share some of its history I gathered; The Molnija movement is basically a copy of a Swiss cal.616 movement designed by Cortébert. This design was very popular and turned out to be a blueprint for many other movement designs such as in Rolex watches from around 1940's: The Molnija (Молния) pocket watches were made from November 1947 to October 2007. The main factory was located in the Ural town of Chelyabinsk with a second factory outside of Moscow. The Russian word Молния means "lightning". The Russians improved accuracy of the movement quite a bit when they upgraded it to their 18 jewels version of the movement but the basic design remained the same until the closure of the factory in 2007. In other words the Molnija movement was originally a Swiss Cortébert movement. A high quality movement. The movement is mainly made out of a nickel copper alloy. The smaller and more delicate cog wheels are made of brass and the bigger wheels which are directly connected to the main spring are made out of carbon steel. Molnija technical specifications Movement diameter: 36 mm Movement types: early movements are called "ЧК-6" (ChK-6) and they have a nice striped pattern finish (Geneva stripes). Around 1964 a new movement called 3602 was introduced. The 3602 is almost identical to the "ЧК-6" but it has no finishing pattern and some of the internal dimensions are different such that you can not exchange parts between the two types. The 3603 movement is a 3602 movement with shock protection (the balance wheel jewels are different). Jewels (gemstone bearings): normally 15 on the "ЧК-6" and 18 on the 3602/3603 movements Rate: 2.5Hz, 5 beats per second, 18000 bph (beats per hour), Lifting angle 52 degrees. Main-spring reserve: The watch runs about 40 hours when fully wound. Balance staff: riveted, note "ЧК-6" (ChK-6) and 3602/3603 movements require different staffs. Balance wheel: The balance wheel alloy was changed and improved over the years. At least 3 different kinds of alloys with different colors in Molnija watches. Hairspring material: Elinvar, hairspring form: Breguet overcoil for 3602/3603 and flat hairspring for ЧК-6 The Chelyabinsk Watch Factory used in the 60's and later sometimes this symbol of a watch showing 9 o'clock. Shock protection for a mechanical watch indicates that the delicate pivots that hold the balance wheel are mounted in a spring suspension system. A shock resistant watch is supposed to survive falling from a height of 1 meter onto a horizontal hardwood surface without any damage to the balance wheel staffs. Most of the Molnija pocket watches are caliber 3602, without shock protection. Shock protection is highly recommended for wrist watches but rarely used for pocket watches especially older models. Pocket watches are more protected against shock if they are properly secured with a chain or some kind of string and carried in a pocket. A few pocket watch models in the late 80's and early 90's were caliber 3603. The 1980's models had a triangular metal piece holding the balance jewel and the later 1990's models had a star shaped metal piece with a round center hole. The 3603 Molnija movement (shock protection) is not seen very often but it can be easily identified because the regulator has two arms that can be moved and the jewel on the balance cock is held in place by a small metal piece sitting on top of the jewel. The watch I received had the more rare 3603 movement, and the solid Silverine case was, apart from some "drawer-wear, in a superb cosmetic condition. It has a Steam locomotive theme and is also called a "Railroad" watch. The finish on the stamped locomotive is done with a grey paint, which wears off in time. The paint on this watch had no wear to speak of. Here a close up of the 3603 movement with a "star" shaped anti-shock spring, suggesting that this movement is from the early 1990's. Clearly, nobody has serviced this watch since it left the factory. It ran, but stopped. The movement is held in place by two case-screws and is removed via the front, so the front bezel and the glass have to be removed first. Removing the hands; I used some 0.2mm thick plastic to protect, in this case the plastic dial. Remove any residual tension in the mainspring by holding the crown, lifting the click and let the spring tension slowly escape via the crown. Once the tension is off, the winding-stem can be pulled by depressing in the stem-release button. Undo the two case screws and take the movement out via the front. The plastic dial has two dial feet, hold in place by two dial-screws on either side of the movement. Note the anti-shock for the balance wheel and the separate cap-stone for the escape-wheel. Started disassembling the keyless works; With the keyless works and cannon-pinion removed; Flipped the movement over; Removed the balance assembly. Clearly to see the dried and solidified oil on the inside of the top anti-shock. Also the "nine-o-clock" stamp of the Chelyabinsk Watch Factory, normally "hiding" under the balance wheel. The escape wheel cock and wheel-bridge removed; Next is the ratchet wheel, the click, crown-wheel (left hand screw!) and thereafter the whole train can be removed; Next is the barrel bridge and barrel The movement has now been fully stripped and ready for some thorough cleaning. Also the main-spring has to be cleaned & checked; I normally take it out by hand and wind it by hand. After some practice it's not hard to do; however never loose concentration while uncoiling or winding the spring though ! These springs LOVE their freedom !! Cleaned and checked the spring, re-wound and oiled it. Make sure the springs "side-wings" engage in a special hole inside the barrel and place the lid correctly. It is also a good idea to demagnetize each part before assembling. Magnetism can cause strange and "un-explainable" running behavior later on. Best is to "nip it in the butt" right from the beginning. Since we are dealing with dried and solidified oil, each and every jewel has to be cleaned thoroughly with peg-wood. Even down to the smallest jewel hole has to be cleaned manually. Every pivot has to be checked and manually cleaned it required. Failure to do so, chances are that the watch doesn't run fine. For removing the anti-shock star form spring, I'm using this drilled out and edge-shaped peg-wood. It works very well for me; After cleaning the anti-shock cap stones, I'm using Rodeco to support it for oiling. Once the oil is on, you pick the Rodeco up, turn it upside down and place the cap-stone in the waiting Chaton. Hold with your tweezers the top of the stone and pull the Rodeco off. When using a 5x magnification, this works as a treat for me. Same methode for the escape wheel cap stones; Also Redoco for holding the pallet-fork while oiling the stone-tips; (hmm ...... it's about time for some new Rodeco !) Assembling the watch is the reverse of the above. After some adjustment the timegrapher produced the following picture; I'll settle for that ! Hope you enjoyed this reading and that this walkthrough will benefit somebody, some day Roland.

Thanks @oldhippy; yes, after writing the article above it became clear to me that even if option 1) was chosen, that the "fix" would tackle only a part of the problem, not the whole problem. All the previous "fixes" done to this movement also focused on just a part of the escapement-problem, not the whole. Fixing a part of the problem will be relative short lived as well. I decided that this was no longer an option for me. One does it either right or you don't do it at all. Today, I had a discussion with the owners and it has been decided that the clock will be cleaned, assembled, oiled and optimal adjusted with all its flaws. The clock will most likely only run on special occasions and therefor it may last for quite some time. I told them an easy to remember analogy: it's like driving an old car by which you now know it has an engine problem; it may brake down today, but if you drive it carefully, it may do you another 50,000 km ...... ?? after which they can still decide to do a proper full-restoration or not. Now for them, after having looked at a still-standing clock for 20 years, they not only get a clock back which runs, but also a well detailed report of what my findings were. It's now up to them to take at a later date action upon those points. For me it's now a matter of assembling, oiling, adjusting, see if I can get the date & moon working and installing the "missing" moon-indicator. A test run and thereafter it's back to the owner. Disappointed ..... not really. I learned a lot and for me, I stopped in time. Rather a running 18-century clock and well informed owners than knocking on the door with a plastic-bag full of parts and a message: "I'm sorry" ........ Thank you all for your excellent help !!

Thank you very much @oldhippy ! I'll certainly use this as a reference if we get to that point.... I would then be delighted to do the final touches. Just now, to say it gently, there are some hurdles to overcome. The more I catch up in theory, the more I see, discover and question (the usual "enlightening": the more one learns, the more one realizes that one knows next to nothing ). Even though the clock ran seemingly fine on a 1.25 kg weight, one could hear, after some studying how an anchor-escapement supposed to work, that there were troubles. To assist in clear communication, I took the liberty to give things some names (in the hope that I named them correctly); Above we see the anchor, on the left the Entry-pallet and I named the sound, when a teeth of the escape wheel makes an impact on the entry pallet, the "tick". On the right the Exit-pallet and I named the sound, when a teeth of the escape wheel makes an impact on the exit-pallet, the "tock". Even though the beat of the clock sounded right, about the same time between the tick and the tock, the tock sounded louder than the tick. This means that the impact forces on the pallets were different and in this case the teeth on the tock had a greater impact on the exit-pallet than a teeth tick on the entry-pallet. Measurements with a feeler confirmed this (the "drop"). The drop between a teeth and the entry-pallet, at the moment that the exit-pallet released, was 0.35mm. The drop between a teeth and the exit-pallet, at the moment that the entry-pallet released, was 0.9mm. This means that it takes longer for a teeth to hit the exit-pallet after release, than it takes for a teeth to hit the entry-pallet after release. This in turn means that the impact forces on the exit-pallet are much greater, and therefor the wear will be much greater. It also means that there is an inequality in the amount of energy being given to the pendulum on each beat. Preferably, to minimize the wear, the impact forces should be equal and kept to a minimum. The impact forces are in turn a function of the distance the teeth travels freely (the drop) between release and impact (the greater the distance of free travel, the more speed the teeth develops) and the torque applied to the escape-wheel. The torque is a function of the weight hung on the clock minus all the friction in the gear-train etc. The greater the weight, assuming the friction being equal, the more torque on the escape wheel ..... so the "running"-weight should be kept as low as possible as well. Looking at the anchor self, it seems that the anchor is slightly warped on the entry-pallet side. This most likely caused the tilted wear on top of the escape wheel teeth; To make matters worse, for as wear is concerned, both pallet surfaces are not polished, never mind burnished. Hopefully you can see on the picture the file marks left behind which are running from left to right .... the worst possible direction for causing wear. Here the exit pallet; and here the entry-pallet; One can also clearly see, that due to the warped anchor-arm, the escape wheel teeth impact imprint on the pallet is off-center. Whereas on the exit pallet it is nearly in center. If I, as I've done before, move the pallet-cock to the lowest position, the situation becomes even worse. The drop between an escape wheel teeth and the entry-pallet becomes 0.2mm and between an escape wheel teeth and the exit pallet 0.8mm, making the difference in sound between the tick & the tock much more pronounced. Perhaps there are many options left, but the ones I currently see: 1) The anchor needs a serious rework, to straighten, increase in pallets thicknesses (meanly the Exit pallet, but also some to the entry pallet, so there is some "meat" for polishing and burnishing the surfaces) 2) A complete new set of escape wheel, cock and bridge (CousinsUK sells complete sets) 3) Leave it as is an the clock goes back to the owner, with a list of spotted defects. The clock will run for some time to come, but we now know that it will stop at some point in time due to wear on the escapement. If either option 1) or 2) is chosen, I have to see what that all entails and whether I can do it? Option 3) is currently the last option I like to opt for ...... but wisdom is also to recognize one's maximum capabilities. Of course, there is the owner of the clock which needs to be informed if serious work & cost are on the table. Hope to receive some advice, idea's & other options on how to proceed .......

For whatever it may be worth; with the pallet-cock in the highest position, the clock runs at the moment very nice & regular. The seconds hand, and the (visible) escape-wheel have a very slight recoil on either side of the tick. The original clock weights are 5.9kg each. Currently the clock runs, without any auxiliaries attached to it, just the going train, very happy on a 1.25kg weight. Now it's time to study the ins & outs of an anchor escapement, so I hopefully get a better understanding where I'm looking at and where to look for. Try to figure out what the situation is with the pallet impulse face's, angles, depths etc. The pdf-link above is already good theoretical help/understanding.