Deggsy

Confused about Magnifiers/Microscopes

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Hello to all.  I wonder if you could help me please?  I'm new to this hobby and confused as to what I should be using in terms of eye assistance whilst working on a watch.  I've seen single eye loops of various magnification, glasses with two eye loops attached, large magnifying glasses on an angle poise type stand and expensive video cameras which sit over the job and relay the image back to a monitor.

I bought a cheap pair of glasses with two eye loops and led lights attached (off fleabay), but to be honest, I can see more with the naked eye - they are useless. Could anyone advise how I should be working with respect to magnification? Do I keep an eye loop in all the time, or only as and when needed?

Thank you in advance.  Kind regards, Deggsy.

 

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I just use normal loupes in varying degrees of magnification depending on what I'm doing 5x 8x 10x and 20x the latter is a must for me in checking jewels,hairspring,pivots and the such I usually have the 8x on my head with one of those spring holding wires which I can lift up if I need to use a higher mag for a minute. But in the end its all about what your happy using some people use microscopes others use glasses with clip on lenses.

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I'm sure that those things work more or less as intended Deggsy but you have to use them up close. You have to hold or look at the item you want to see from a few centimeters away.

It also depends what magnification they have... Maybe they're weak and you need stronger loupes.

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I just used an eye glass, I had many that were different magnification from a size 2 3½ 4 and a 5. I could keep the thing in all day; I wear specks but never had them on while working.  

These days due to diabetes I now have very bad sight, things I could take apart years ago I cant even **BLEEP** see.:pulling-hair-out: 

 

Edited by oldhippy

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When I first started in this hobby I used standard Bausch & Lomb loupes of varying power (4,10,20). I never got used to the wire strap and just held the loupe in place with my eye. It was never an issue. Now, however, I wear eyeglasses so things have changed. I have tried all types of clip on loupes, but I just don't like them. These days I use a visor that I can easily flip up or down and I like them quite a lot. They cover my eyeglasses and have a good working distance so I can get comfortable. For really tough spots, like jewel inspection or even oiling, I find it easier to use my stereo microscope. It takes quite a bit of practice to get used to working through a scope, but once you get it down it's very handy! 

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I have tried these, and can see nothing!  lol  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272329270820
Regards, Deggsy

20x magnification ! No wonder you can't see anything. You would need to be a few mm from the watch before the lense would focus.
I like a head band type and use 5x for general and 8x for the fiddly bits.

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My go to magnification is 3x then 5, then 12, i do have a 20 but it's rarely used. a little lower than other people by the looks of it. but yeah you do have to consider the practicality of a more powerful eyeglass, generally the more poweful they get the more finicky they get. But lower power, such as 3x you can focus on things relatively easily pretty much still look at the entire movement in focus and at a reasonable distance, go up to 20x and the 'focal point' the point in which its possible for anything to come into focus is often smaller than a pea and the eye glass practically has to be touching what you're looking at.

Standard loupe eye glasses should be sufficient for almost any body, the trick is to make a surprised expression, dig in lightly into the skin at the bottom of your eye with the ridge of the eyeglass and then bring the top of the loop under your brow and then relax your face, then the skin should hold it in place without any real active effort on your part, takes getting used to though. 

The loupe keepers, the wire things that go around your head are good as well, and many professional watchmakers use them their whole career, they can hang around your neck when you're not using the eye glass and then easily be pulled up the top of your head and once you have the eye glass in position you just have to find the optimal point on the other side of your head to rest the little nub, might take a little experimentation but they are very simple and they do work well (Theres no chance of the eye glass falling out and dropping onto the movement sending parts flying), and they can be bought cheaply. I'd suggest it though I don't use one myself.

Edited by Ishima

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Hello Deggsy,

I bought a set of anchor aluminium eyeglasses for only a few pounds and find them ok, I think I use the No 3 most of the time,

I also bought a nice 10x from Cousins for closer work.

I have one of those 20x magnifiers on a spectacle frame with a light on top but like others say here the focal point is so close it's not really practical to work with.

Good luck with your watch repair.  :)

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I use an optivisor for pocket watches .. With a DA-10 lens 3.5X magnification with a 2.5x optiloupe attachment for when I need a little closer look...Also have a 10X loup for getting in real tight

58bb4c3c359e7_41XtCbMoRL._AC_UL130_.jpg.951de64eed45cea976f25da89a5c9a76.jpg58bb4c3d5a6be_81dN7XCtiL._AC_UL115_.jpg.fe430890777b2a9e6c5f8c5ba5834ca1.jpgs-l225.jpg.e2373585762825f28cbbded690e66a8e.jpg

Edited by adiorio110

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hy all , what of those glasses type that the doctors wear . it is a pair of reading glasses but on the actual spectacle lense left and right is a mounted loupe of sorts . what distance do they see with them when they are operating , i do not think that they would putting thier head way into a body while they are doing surgery

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Thank you all for some excellent responses. The information about the 20x eye loupes now makes perfect sense. I disconnected one from the spectacle frame and wore it as a single eye loupe..... bingo. Once very close, everything came to life, fantastic. But impractical to work up that close as I could not even get a screwdriver between the job and loupe. Also there are slightly heavy and small in diameter causing the loupe to fall from my eye. Time to shop around this weekend. One good thing came from the 20x though. I bought a lovely old Russian rakita which would stop intermittently and it was my intention to completely strip clean and rebuild it in the hope to revive it. Viewing the movement at 20x I noticed a small gold object hanging over the hair spring. When I carefully revived it with rodeo I resembled the shape of a Jews harp, symmetrical like an elongated circlip. Any ideas please? The movement does now work which is good news, but I'd like to identify where said part has come from. Any ideas please? Regards deggsy


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Hi all , if i do not reply it is i i am not computer savvy,idon't even know what blog is . Any way what i was referring to is called 3.5 x 420 mm dental surgical binoculars and surgeons actually just have the binocular lloupes mounted directly to your persription glasses, hope that helps  

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I believe you are referring to surgical eye loupes, like the one below. These come in a range of magnifications and the working distance can be customized for the user. But they tend to be rather expensive.  I have not tried them personally, but I did discuss with a dentist friend of mine. Dentists typically require 2.5-3.5x magnification, but their working distance is quite far compared to a watchmaker.

dentalLoupe.png.31bf37f4cf4ccb6958acb3c771a8f844.png

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YES!!!  Thank you sir, that is exactly the item.  now to find its home.
Regards Deggsy

Here it is back in place. The Russian design isn't ringed on the end like the one on the incabloc web site. Instead the closes end of the lyre slips into a retaining slot. My rakita now runs without immediately stopping. Thank you so much for helping. 25950d105b4da0ba53483c7b93fbbda4.jpg51c092bb0702b964ebd473a352d7cafe.jpg


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Surgical eye loupes are great if you can get use to the working distance and low magnification they don't usually have a zoom feature. I personally use a B&L stereo microscope. I use a 8x loupe occasionally like 10% of the time, but I much prefer my stereoscope which i can use at anything between 3x and 75x magnification all while not having my face directly in the movement.


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Here's my two cents (which, owing to inflation and all, isn't worth a plugged nickel).  Use your naked eye for what you can.  If you need more, use one of those jeweler's headband magnifiers.  To get in closer, use a 3x, 4x, 10x loupe.  To get down to the nitty-gritty (hairsprings, roller jewels, etc) use a 20x loupe or resort to a microscope.  The more the power, the closer you have to get to your work and the more distortion you'll have around the edges.  My eyeballs are older than Accutrons, so I use a 10x loupe as pretty much a standard practice. 

No matter what you use, be sure to have some fun with this rewarding hobby!:blink:

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On 3/5/2017 at 6:53 PM, Deggsy said:


Here it is back in place. The Russian design isn't ringed on the end like the one on the incabloc web site. Instead the closes end of the lyre slips into a retaining slot. My rakita now runs without immediately stopping. Thank you so much for helping. 25950d105b4da0ba53483c7b93fbbda4.jpg51c092bb0702b964ebd473a352d7cafe.jpg


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In the first photo (see above), there are two levers.   One is for advancing and retarding the rate (?) and the other lever does what please?   I fiddled today, with something I dont understand oops!  I was trying to retard the watch as it was gaining about 15 minutes in 5 days, but noticed when I moved the lever which is in the 10 oclock position, it also dragged with it the lever which is in the 12 oclock position.  However the lever in the 12 oclock position, can be moved independent of the other lever.   I hope that makes sense?   Have i done anything serious by me tinkering around with the unknown?   The watch is another Rakita, almost the same as that in the photos above.

I look forward to your reply.  Kind regards Deggsy

 

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The lever in the 12 position is used to make the watch run faster or slower. The one at 10 is used to change the resting position of the hairspring and thus changing/managing the beat error. It makes sense that when you moved the lever in the 10 position it dragged the other as it would want to keep the relationship between them the same and therefore independent of each other. When you changed the lever at 10 you might have increased any beat error the watch might have. If it is gaining time and it has not been serviced in a while sounds to me like this watch should be serviced.


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Personally I never liked using eye loupes. I don't like working  scrunched over the movement and find loupes to be extremely uncomfortable. After trying out every type and power of loupe I could get my hands on I settled on off the shelf drugstore reading glasses. They are relatively inexpensive and are available in powers of 1 through 4 diopters. For higher magnification I use an inexpensive Amscope stereo microscope that magnifies up to 40X.  In the end all that counts is what works best for you and how much you want to pay for the equipment. 

OVAL-RIMLESS-READING-GLASSES-Almost-Invisible-1086-ANY-STRENGTH-1-00-4-00stereo-microscope-SM-3B

david

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I work with a 2.5 power loupe, 10x loupe for hairspring work and some jewel lubrication and a microscope usually on the 3x setting for escapement lubrication, pivot checking etc. This should pretty much cover your watchmaking needs.

 

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