Elma Watch Cleaning Machine

[TheArgus]

Any idea as to what I should do with it? As I am not in the jewelry or watch repair vein of the hobby/industry.... I don't have any real use for it, and it's something I think should be in the hands of someone who will appreciate it more than I can. 

[TheArgus]

Sorry for my being so inconsiderate to the forums etiquette. I have yet to introduce myself or anything. The name is Holden, and yeah, well outside of my element. I'm more comfortable in a blacksmiths shop not in the virtual world. That being said, thanks again for your response Frank, and anyone else who might be able to point me in the right direction.

Holden-

[NicolasWatch]

Hello, I recently bought an Elma Super Elite and I try to figured out with the heating element !

i’m looking for the details of how to assemble the different layers of the heater . I want to know where the white plate goes. I guess it is the following order but i would like to be sure :
From top to bottom : Protective plate => Heater plate => White plate => Base

i’m right ?

Regards,
Nicolas

[watchweasol]

Hello and welcome to the forum.    can you supply pictures of the parts in question please.

[Jakub]

Hey everyone.

After longer time of hesitation, I have decided to purchase watch cleaning machine. My pick is Elma Elmasolvex SE or something very similar. All I found are new. Is any place online where I can hope for used one to pop out for sale once a time?

I read about tools auctions organized by BHI. Does anyone has experience with shopping online on these? When is that happening?

Any input much appreciated.
Jakub

[oldhippy]

I see Cousins have it for sale at £1,960.00. The only place I know where you might pick up a second hand cleaning machine is ebay, but nothing like what you have decided on gets put on there. The type that I see are really very old.  

[Jakub]

That’s right, what I see on eBay is nothing I really would like to put my money on. I’m more thinking of making at least 10 years investment to this machine. I have found Indian machines but I’m not sure if I want to order this kind of cheap solution I think it could go quite expensive in the end. Cousins is not an option because of customs and taxes and and shipping I will pay like €4000. From my research this page Seems to sell them at a reasonable price https://www.uhrmacherwerkzeuge.com/epages/62662707.mobile/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62662707/Products/5510.SE&Locale=en_GB

Have anybody a shopped with them?

still would be nice to find some used in good condition.

 

[oldhippy]

If you are watch repair and you are doing this sort of work for a living and you have plenty, you will soon get your money back. Where about are you in the world? I’m sure others will chip in and give you advice. I’m sorry I can’t do more.

[jdm]

3 minutes ago, Jakub said:

.I’m more thinking of making at least 10 years investment to this machine. 

What is that a GBP 2,000 cleaning machine does that others don't? Seems the kind of equipment typically bought by a large company, not a budget-savvy individual repairer, and much less an hobbyist. In my opinion there are much better ways to spend this kind of money in tools. 

[Klassiker]

24 minutes ago, Jakub said:

Have anybody a shopped with them?

I shop with them from time to time and never had any problems.

[Nibbler]

I second the comment on getting some quality tools vs spending the money on a cleaner. If you do end up getting this machine please give us a review of its effectiveness.

Matt

[Jakub]

On 4/10/2021 at 3:01 PM, oldhippy said:

Where about are you in the world? I’m sure others will chip in and give you advice. I’m sorry I can’t do more.

My base location is Slovakia. Yeah would be great if someone had spare Elmasolvex SE. If anybody have even just information, I would be very thankful.

On 4/10/2021 at 3:03 PM, jdm said:

What is that a GBP 2,000 cleaning machine does that others don't? 

Actually almost all. Anything above this item is at least double price.

19 hours ago, Nibbler said:

I second the comment on getting some quality tools vs spending the money on a cleaner.

Sure I went through these thoughts. And then I think that good cleaner is also good quality tool.

[nickelsilver]

Two things that rarely come up for sale are modern cleaning machines and modern pro-grade timing machines. When they do, they often approach new prices.  The Greiner ACS 900 is sort of the industry standard at the moment, they go for about 12k Swiss Francs; friend of mine was very very happy to find one a few years ago for 8k, with a few years of use on it already.

 

If you check Lititz Precision Products they offer a similar fully automatic machine, with 5 baths, and ultrasonic all around, for 7500 US, about half of Greiner and they are apparently similar build quality. They have a smaller machine similar to the old Watchmaster, with several individual ultrasonic baths for about half that price. The Watchmaster machines were very popular among pros in the U.S., don't recall seeing any in Europe.

 

The Elmasolvex you are looking at isn't automatic, so I'd suggest looking for an older Elma manual machine. They do come up for sale. They function fine, and as you aren't concerned about having ultrasonic (I personally would want it), the cleaning level should be the same. There is a thread here somewhere about the Indian copies of the old Elmas, seems they are good value for the price but needed a little touching up of the wiring to make them "safe", haha.

[AshF]

@JakubI went through the very same thought processes as you.  I was never really happy with the results I got from hand cleaning and hand cleaning was the only thing I hated about watchmaking.  I was putting off doing watches because I knew I'd be spending 3 hours of work for eventual disappointment. 

I bought a cheap cleaning machine off ebay and it's has changed everything.  The parts come out really clean, shiny and dry and now I enjoy the hobby all over again.

If you've got the money and cleaning is a sticking point for you then I say go for it.  These machines hold their value really well so should you want to sell it in the future you'll likely recoup quite a bit of the cost.

[Jakub]

On 4/11/2021 at 2:32 PM, nickelsilver said:

They function fine, and as you aren't concerned about having ultrasonic (I personally would want it), the cleaning level should be the same. There is a thread here somewhere about the Indian copies of the old Elmas, seems they are good value for the price but needed a little touching up of the wiring to make them "safe", haha.

They (Elma) explain that ‘it’s manual machine is using “vibrations” with spinning. I haven’t found any specific values for this vibrations but ultrasound is also vibrations, so it all comes down to frequency. I really don’t want to choose Indian, although the price set up is very tempting. My concern are service and parts availability. 

For now it seem to be the manual Elma, fresh from shop, with all warranties. Shipping is really pricey with package like this, I would be happiest for personal pick up, but the situation RN with traveling... 

On 4/11/2021 at 2:35 PM, AshF said:

@JakubI bought a cheap cleaning machine off ebay and it's has changed everything.  The parts come out really clean, shiny and dry and now I enjoy the hobby all over again.

If you've got the money and cleaning is a sticking point for you then I say go for it.  These machines hold their value really well so should you want to sell it in the future you'll likely recoup quite a bit of the cost.

Thank you for sharing your experience. It really helps to hear your story to have such nice outcome. 
Yes, manual cleaning is draining and puts too much risk. 2 years of ultrasonic from small jar to jar, then fiber glass touch ups and again jar to jar. It’s like waiting for disaster. It took me almost 4 hours to clean Valjoux 72c to find out I have to do it again. That was moment when cleaning machine became a real idea. As I know I want to (and will) work on more complicated watches, my current way ain’t good enough. 

 

[Sunny]

Hi all,

Just like to know if this will fix on a 8mm motor shaft?

Many thanks

[Graziano]

Hi there, that looks to me like an Elma Basket Holder suitable for use with Elma Super-Elite, Elma RM90, Elma Solvex SE and Elma Solvex RM cleaning machines. To fit Ø8mm spindle with fixing grubs crew. Hope that helps. 

[HectorLooi]

I helping my mentor to repair the timer of his old Elma cleaning machine.

The timer is like a kitchen timer, you turn it to the time desired and it winds down to zero then rings a bell. But now, it appears that the friction wheel has worn off and it returns to zero the moment immediately when your hand leaves the knob.

I've stripped the timer down and can see that the friction wheel is part of the mainspring arbor. There appears to be a red phenolic paper washer that is disintegrating and the spring washer can no longer exert adequate pressure to stop the wheel from slipping.

Has anyone attempted to fix something like this before? I told my mentor to replace it with a timer switch or cannibalize a kitchen timer. But he's a stickler for authenticity. 

Thanks in advance. 

[HectorLooi]

Photos of the mainspring arbor and friction wheel.

The shoulder of the arbor is peened to hold down a metal washer. The paper washer is under the metal washer.

[HectorLooi]

Just an update. 

I used a diamond disk to free the washers from the mainspring arbor and replaced the worn off paper washer.

I had some paper washers on hand but the centre hole was of the wrong diameter. I spent about an hour reaming the hole to the correct diameter and sanding it down to a thickness of 0.6mm.

I then reassembled the stack of washers and spot welded it with my micro tig welder. 

Reassembling all the wheels, levers and springs and screwing down the plates was a nightmare. The springs were bulging out and pushing against everything. 

But finally everything is back together and working properly.

[axlerose]

On 10/10/2020 at 4:57 PM, Rafal said:

Hi  Tom,

 

Im not sure if you can make use of this picture as from my experience those machines had different setups

It seems that this timer is not really seting time for spinning but opens circut to stop synchro motor from progressing program which is set with those bronze wheels when end switches opens and close on tooths. At least in mine. Only 2 screws have wires connected to them as far I can tell.

 

Rafal

 

 

On 10/10/2020 at 4:18 PM, Tinker said:

My thanks to Rafal for the copy of the manual, which I am in the middle of translating using Google Translate. It should do complete pdf's but mine doesn't for some reason so I am doing it line by line.

If you read this Rafal, could you please tell me, if possible, the wiring positions of the three red wires on the back of the timer? When I took it off, it had two wires on one position and one on one of the others. The spring in mine was broken so I repaired that and, using an Ohmmeter, find it connects a+b when off and a+c when on. I took a picture on remove, but it got deleted in error so I am now not sure where the three red wires belong.

 

I also connected a 240V supply to the basket motor and fried it as it is a 12Volt motor but had a 240V wire going into the casing. Turns out there is a Siemens bridge rectifier in front of the clock timer.  Stupid of me not to check first so now need an armature rewind.

 

I am slowly getting the hang of finding my way round the site but I think I may have posted my messages in the wrong place.

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Tom

Have you still got manual for this machine, could i have copy please as need to look into wiring mine.

Many thanks

Chris

[Moose]

Hello All.

I am looking to repair/replace a broken speed controller shaft on an Elma Super Elite. It has been damaged in transit (whilst on a machine) and the shaft now no longer will change the motor speed.

Does anyone know of a supplier of such a part, or as a real long shot, ,right actually have one they would be willing to part with?

Long shot, I know, but it is the only thing spoiling a great machine as I can't regulate the speed and the machine is otherwise totally original.

[GaspardColigny]

I'm hoping for some help with the Elma super Elite I just received.
The speed regulator of the potentiometer got shattered in transit, it seems to have received a blow from the top. The seller sid it worked fine before shipping and I have no reason to disbelieve him.

After plugging in the machine the heating worked fine, red light came on, but the motor did nothing, no sound or anything.
I accidentally pushed the axle of the speed regulator down, which blew a fuse in the fuse box.

I pulled the axle back up, and opened the housing of the regulator to re-seat the regulator contacts. I now found there's voltage on the neutral/green! I'm trying to figure out what's going on.

Thanks in advance!

[GaspardColigny]

There's some strange wiring going on, when I run the mains directly to the motor it works. So it has to be in the internal wiring. I've added photo's of the wiring as is. If anyon has photo's of their wiring I would appreciate that.

[LittleWatchShop]

I need to see more pictures. There appears to be only two wires connected to the speed controller. Is that right?

The speed controller looks like a wire wound rheostat. It varies from 0 to R ohms. R is probably in the range of 500 to 2000 ohms SWAG. Lowest speed when R is dialed in and fastest when 0 is dialed in.

I am troubled by the fuse blowing. No setting on the rheostat should cause that, so even if it is damaged in some way causing 0 or R, it would not blow a fuse. However, if one of the wires is shorted to the case, then you might blow a fuse...and this is possible due to physical damage.

I would unplug power and remove the rheostat and inspect it...post pictures.