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Moose last won the day on July 3

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About Moose

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  1. Thanks wls1971. I have attached a couple of photos before disassembly and cleaning, but can’t see any i.d. Markings anywhere, only that it looks the same as the internet article. I will have a look on eBay as well, to see what I can find. For oldhippy, I attached a photo of the back of mine and will take care to oil it and the click. I was considering Molykote DX, or 8300. I suppose either would work? i have cleaned the main movement and am also wondering if 1300 will work for the train pivots? Or will something a bit heavier be needed?
  2. Thanks wls1971. I have attached a couple of photos before disassembly and cleaning, but can’t see any i.d. Markings anywhere, only that it looks the same as the internet article. I will have a look on eBay as well, to see what I can find.
  3. Hi all. *** Update time *** Got it apart easily, and it is indeed exactly like the one in the "onatelier.co.uk" photos above. Perversely - it also has exactly the same fault, namely a broken pivot on it's balance staff. No idea at all how it managed to run and seem to keep any sort of time. Anyway, I have run everything through the cleaning machine and reassembled the main works and it all runs nice and smoothly. The question now is; am I up to replacing the balance staff on my own? I know that this is a skill that - most likely anyway - any aspiring watch fettler should be able to perform with relative ease, but, this will be my first attempt at one. Some questions for guidance please: I have a vintage staking set as well as the usual collection of watch repairers hand tools. Do I need anything more specialised? Where in the name of heck, would I source a correct-sized replacement balance staff? Any tips as to how to proceed? Pitfalls? etc. Or - should I just send it to a "proper" watch fettler and be done with... No really - I would like to do it on my own...
  4. Wow, so much help. Thanks to all who have replied so far. I have added photos of the clock, but have no other information, as I have not yet attempted to get the covers off. (I was waiting to see if any info was forthcoming before just diving in...) #OldHippy - those pics look the same as the article I was able to find, and my guess it is the same model of clock. I’ll know for certain once I have the covers off. scince this morning, it has run about 5 Minutes fast over about 6 hours, so needs a service, but nevertheless is working. The hour hand is out of alignment, but that’s easily remedied once I get to reassembly. I have no idea of the current power reserve as I don’t wish to fully wind it until I get it cleaned and serviced first. otherwise, it’s a nice looking thing, in reasonable condition.
  5. Hello All. I just found a British Jaeger Car Clock. From what I can find on the internet, it might be a type FAZ, 3 inch dashboard clock, with 8 Day movement. It winds OK and seems to keep time over the short time I have owned it (less than one day...), but hand setting is a bit hit-and-miss, so I think there may be worn teeth, or something. I am more used to watches, so have not taken this apart for cleaning and repair (if required) yet. I also cannot yet find any exploded diagrams or anything to let me know how it is constructed, so am trying to find some information that may help me. As far as I have been able to ascertain, it may have a platform escapement - but that is really all I have been able to determine without taking it apart. Any assistance with regard to obtaining diagrams etc. would be greatly appreciated.
  6. That sounds like a good idea. I have a very fine mesh colander which is big enough to get quite a bit of mesh material from to fashion dividers. But, I also fancy a bit of a challenge. Once I get moved I will see if I can manufacture a shaft. I have a mate with a lathe and I’m sure he would let me loose on it for the usual “consideration”. It also depends if I can get together the Elma bits at a lot less money than they seem to be advertised for. On the plus side, I already have the basket holder... But, it will have to wait till the move is over with and I’m settled again. So I’m keeping my eyes open in the meantime. And, my wife’s colander may well bite the dust in the meantime.
  7. But will Elma attachments fit the Lanzetter National? (No...) The problem is simply size related. Whilst the two baskets look to be very close, the measurements are different enough to matter. Now - IF I had a lathe, and IF had the inclination... In these photos you can see the size differences. The inner diameter of the Elma baskets are 64 mm. The outer diameter of the National attachment point is 67 mm. Also the wall thickness of the Elma basket is only 2.2 mm, so there is insufficient thickness to be able to reduce it to allow the National head to fit, as there would be insufficient material left to provide enough strength. As can also be seen, unlike the Elma Basket arrangements, the National basket holder and impeller, are both an integral part of the shaft. The Elma basket holder attaches to it's motor shaft via a metal bush and grub-screw, so it would need more "metal bashing" in order to fit an Elma Basket support to the National motor spindle. Now - If I had a lathe, and IF I had the inclination, it should be possible to either: Turn down the National basket support to fit the Elma basket holder. After all, it only needs about a mm or 2 taken off to fit. But - I would have to remove the 3 mounting studs during turning and then likely re-drill the newly-turned basket support to fit new ones. OR, I could manufacture a new shaft for the National, bored out at one end to fit on the motor shaft, and turned down to fit the Elma Basket support. (I think someone actually did this, in another post on here somewhere.) But I don't have a lathe and, crucially at the moment anyway, also do not have the inclination. In any case, we are currently packing up to move house by the end of the month, so it would in any case, have to wait until after we were settled, until I decided if I was tackle this, or just leave things as they are. Anyway - there it is for anyone else wondering if these things might fit... (Anyone want to buy a surplus to requirements Elma Basket holder?)
  8. Thanks for the update. Looking good and I'm pleased its functioning well for you. I'm guessing that somewhere in its life, someone has replaced the motor with that from a Mark V, which would explain the off-white colour. Not sure why the heat tunnel is white though, never seen a National Machine with a square and white tunnel and the Mark V tunnel is tubular. Maybe someone just painted it white? (See photo of a Mark V, below.) Looks to be in much the original condition that mine was in: The internal wiring is the same, fabric wound stuff and the heater and the way it's mounted is the same as well. The difference - and I was expecting it - is the rheostat. Yours seems to have - what must be - a later modification, which changed the "flat-pack" style of fixed-resistances that mine had, with a more up-to-date (for the time) wire-wound and circular resistance. I think this is also why Lanzetter added the additional ON-OFF switch, as the circular rheostat did not have an OFF position, whereas the "flat-pack" version that my older one has, has the first stud-contact not connected to anything, thereby isolating the motor from the mains voltage when turned to off. What's still the case, is that they were both just as unsafe really - even by standards back then - mainly due to the unprotected, mains-potential connections on the rheostat. It would have been a relatively simple thing to incorporate some form of protective cover over that area, to make it safer. All the same, a good acquisition as it is and an even better one, once you have spent some time on it. Good catch! George.
  9. I would particularly be interested in viewing the rheostat. I have a theory about the later editions of the model 1, like yours, with the additional on/off switch for the motor. My thinking is that they changed the design of rheostat which necessitated the addition of an on/off switch, as the new version did not have an “off” position, like the one originally fitted in mine.
  10. Glad you found it useful. I was impressed at how quiet it was as well. For such an old machine, I sort of expected wear in bearings or something to perhaps create some imbalance and vibration, but no, steady as anything. Certainly downward force on these older machines, but mostly nowadays they are automatic and bi-directional and as far as I know the “rotor” part does not exist anymore, so there is no imparting of a flow direction when it rotates. I think for the average hobbyist, just using a machine, even of this vintage, is going to make a such a difference to cleanliness, that it won’t really matter. still can’t wait to hear about you starting on your machine. I wish you well with it. G.
  11. So - That's it... I hope someone gets some information and maybe, a little pleasure from reading this series of posts. These Nationals are likely to become increasingly rare, especially working examples, as it seems a certain generation of older watchmakers are disposing of their ancient equipment. Or more likely, and sadly, the descendants of older watchmakers and repairers dispose of their loved one's estates and wonder what can be done with this heavy old bit of junk in Grandad's shed... I really enjoyed working on this old machine and putting it back into useful service as my own, hobbyists watch cleaner. As well learning a little bit about the business of Mr Saul Lanzetter and his National brand and some of the patents in his name, which may or may not, have led to many such machines and their derivatives being sold all over the world. All that remains now, is to find a watch of mine that is next in line for a strip down, fix, clean and rebuild and put this little machine back into productive service. To that end, I'm waiting for the new 7750 video by Mark due anytime now. Ok - now where exactly did I put that tired old Valjoux 7750 when I cleared the decks for this old thing?
  12. A "close up" sir? Thought I would just give a close up after I had made some checks to see how much fluid was the correct amount for these jars, as they were unmarked and came with no instructions. The Elma instructions indicate that the correct level of fluid should be around 1cm above the "suction blade" where the basket is attached. Also that when in use, the suction blades should not become visible, otherwise too much suction will be caused and may result in excessive foam being created. So I thought I would try to capture this to show what the correct levels and speeds look like. This was done just using plain water. Firstly with the correct level established. In these National Jars this volume is 750 ml. This is about 75% full. Then rotation at the correct speed, move to too fast and then back down to nominal again. The action of the "wave breakers" can also be seen in these shots. IMG_1574.m4v
  13. A video maybe... (if my upload works) It's not often these machines turn up, and less often they turn up working, so I feel justified. No commentary, just the noise of the machine itself. Dunno how it will sound to you, but right in front of me, its nice a quiet and completely unobtrusive. I start from switched off, turn it on, advance the control to what I think is likely to be normal for use in liquids. Finally turning off. Sorry - Francis Ford Coppola I'm not! IMG_1572.m4v
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