Cleaning and oiling balance and jewels

[jdm]

I have an U/S cleaner and appreciate its use where there is dirt that can be loosened by vibration. That is the case mostly with bracelets, cases, few things more. Beside that it can heat cleaning solutions, of which some are accelerated by that, or for dissolving steel with allume.

That being said I see little use for U/S cleaning with normal typical watch parts cleaning, where all is  needed is a (optional) plating or brass brighteners followed by a good oil solvent.  The good practice is that you will go over all the fixed hole jewels with pegwood under the eyepiece or microscope. If would want to super clean  pivots use a piece of pith wood perhaps.

That being said, cleaning like lubrication is a matter of personal believing, check what this early 1900 book says on the matter

 

[oldhippy]

If the cap jewels can be removed then you should do so, and clean them in the machine that you have. The balance complete, complete means hairspring and balance wheel I always used Ronsonol lighter fluid. The balance cock should be cleaned with all the other plates in your machine. 

[Bonzer]

32 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

If the cap jewels can be removed then you should do so, and clean them in the machine that you have. The balance complete, complete means hairspring and balance wheel I always used Ronsonol lighter fluid. The balance cock should be cleaned with all the other plates in your machine. 

So you're suggesting that the balance (hairspring/wheel) should be removed from the balance cock before cleaning? 

[SuspectDevice]

I've been using One-Dip for the oscillator. (hairspring & balance wheel) & also for the end stones.

Everything else goes in warm naphtha & gets the U/S treatment for 5 min.

Peg wood for all the jewel holes & the "green eraser" polisher for the pivots.

Back into U/S for a 5 min rinse.

Oscillator gets demagnetized & rinsed in One-dip along with end stones.

This is my best guess so far as to what to do but I have only completed 4 watches & have inconsistent time-grapher results.

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by SuspectDevice

[oldhippy]

So you're suggesting that the balance (hairspring/wheel) should be removed from the balance cock before cleaning? 

Definitely.  

[SuspectDevice]

Someone here recommended these 2 tools for the hairspring stud.

Cut a bar straw to a point to lift the hairspring stud into position & use a small piece of electrical insulation over your .6mm screwdriver to slide over and trap the screw when tightening it back down. (stud screw is slippery)

I also like to use the bar straw for other things like spinning wheels & checking end-shake. It's just more delicate than peg wood or tweezers & doesn't leave fibers behind on re-assembly.

Edited May 20, 2021 by SuspectDevice

[aac58]

I always reinstall the balance complete on the main plate, then I remove the cap jewels and put them on separate baskets (sometimes upper and lower cap jewels are not the same), and everything goes to the US for a bath in naphtha.

Before the rinse in IPA i take the balance complete and the pallet fork out of the US, and while the remaining parts of the watch are in the IPA, I re-clean the balance and fork in One Dip (or B-Dip, or tetrachlorethylene...) only dip it a few seconds rising the balance carefully to allow the spring to be cleaned fully and dry with the air blower. I've never tried Essence of Renata but it might also work.

This works very well for me.

Edited May 20, 2021 by aac58

[Nucejoe]

You get cleaner cap jewels by pegging on a piece of matt cardboard (sèe the picture) , all types of boxes are made with this type of cardboard so are easy to find.

https://husale.2021shoponline.com/content?c=thin cardboard sheets with matt surface&id=5

Cut and place a piece of the cardboard on a hard surface, drop the cap jewel on the board, pour some lighter fluid on the cap jewel, press your finger on the cap jewel and peg it onto where you poured the lighter fluid. This beats any other approach of pegging before U/S bath, specially when old oil has dried on the cap jewel. 

I stick staff pivots into a toothpick, (turn the the tooth pick) next dip the toothpick in lighter fluid and repeat the trick so its ready for bath in cleaning machine.

 

 

[jdm]

On 5/20/2021 at 2:23 PM, oldhippy said:

So you're suggesting that the balance (hairspring/wheel) should be removed from the balance cock before cleaning? 

Definitely.  

My personal advice is to the contrary. When the task is just cleaning for the purpose of servicing there is always a risk in removing  and reinstalling the stud, especially if it's of the Etachron type. I don't see any advantage in doing that, even if one wants to dip the balance into a special cleaning solution that can be done with the cock attached.

[Paul80]

Hi all.

Please excuse this beginners question, but what's the options regarding a good chemical for cleaning balance springs.

Obviously their is the usual Bergeon one dip, or the newer B dip and I see Essence of Renata recommended but what about other more easily obtained and cheaper, I have loads of things like methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) Acitone, Naphtha, and 99.9% IPA are any of those any good for balance spring cleaning.

Thanks for any input on this.

Paul

 

 

[Nucejoe]

 I put the balance in a jar (upper pivot down, roller table up) then pour lighter fluid or IPA in the jar( fill so fluid levels with the roller and wont reach the shellac and impulse jewel) clsoe the lid tight and let the fluid clean the H/ S for hours. neither fluid damage the shelac if in contact for a few seconds so I occasionally swirls the jar. 

[Graziano]

Hi there Paul80 , one dip is a "perc" or perchloroethylene or Tetrachloroethylene which is used in dry cleaning 62USD for 10l https://www.universaldrycleaningsolutions.com.au/store/perchloroethylene-universal-perc-dry-cleaning-solvent/

[jdrichard]

3 hours ago, Paul80 said:

Hi all.

Please excuse this beginners question, but what's the options regarding a good chemical for cleaning balance springs.

Obviously their is the usual Bergeon one dip, or the newer B dip and I see Essence of Renata recommended but what about other more easily obtained and cheaper, I have loads of things like methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) Acitone, Naphtha, and 99.9% IPA are any of those any good for balance spring cleaning.

Thanks for any input on this.

Paul

 

 

Lighter Fluid. Leave it in for at least 15 min. It will not harm the shellac on the impulse jewel. Agitate with a blower very carefully as well.

[mikepilk]

8 hours ago, jdrichard said:

Lighter Fluid. Leave it in for at least 15 min. It will not harm the shellac on the impulse jewel. Agitate with a blower very carefully as well.

Lighter fluid (naphtha) leaves an oily residue, so use IPA as the final clean. IPA dissolves shellac (on the impulse jewel), but if used for a short time there is no problem - I run about 1 min in IPA in the ultrasonic cleaner.

[Paul80]

Thanks for the replies

I have Naphtha and IPA already so that looks to be a plan.  might pick up some  perchloroethylene as well, I have seen it listed at £20 a litre, will do some digging to see if I can find a better price in the UK.

Thanks again.

Paul

[mikepilk]

42 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

Thanks for the replies

I have Naphtha and IPA already so that looks to be a plan.  might pick up some  perchloroethylene as well, I have seen it listed at £20 a litre, will do some digging to see if I can find a better price in the UK.

Thanks again.

Paul

Why not use some proper watch cleaner?  I switched from using pure naphtha to Elma WF Pro Cleaner and was surprised how much better it is - cleans off stubborn residue and puts a nice shine on the metal. It's about £30 for 2.5 litres, but it will last you for ages.

[jdrichard]

43 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

Why not use some proper watch cleaner?  I switched from using pure naphtha to Elma WF Pro Cleaner and was surprised how much better it is - cleans off stubborn residue and puts a nice shine on the metal. It's about £30 for 2.5 litres, but it will last you for ages.

I look up this Elma WF Pro Cleaner.

[Nucejoe]

 I agree with mike, if you are located where you can purchase best cleaning solutions, don't shortchange yourself with cheap alternatives. I know !   some product are cost prohibitive, for example oils, I wounder if WRT can order those in small containers for sale to all members and non members alike.

Just an idea.

[rodabod]

If you are using a solvent such as lighter fuel (or any other for that matter) then it is good to test them for residues by allowing a drop to evaporate on a sheet of glass. I still use Swan lighter fuel for degreasing occasionally.

[steve1811uk]

Hi, does anyone have experience of using either or both products for hairspring cleaning? I'm looking to buy one of them. Any recommendations? Thanks, Steve.

[Plato]

Perchloroethylene (dry cleaning solvent) is great on grease and quite cheap. Diethyl Ether is similar, less toxic but more expensive... also an inhalant (Fear and Loathing in Las Vagas).

[jdm]

21 minutes ago, Plato said:

Perchloroethylene (dry cleaning solvent) is great on grease and quite cheap. 

But It's banned in EU, UK and I guess many other countries. So Renata "one dip" is no more, the alternative is "essence", which is n-Heptane.

[Plato]

56 minutes ago, jdm said:

But It's banned in EU, UK and I guess many other countries. So Renata "one dip" is no more, the alternative is "essence", which is n-Heptane.

No it's not, have a look on ebay £15 for 500ml! 

[Paul80]

Hi.

I have just gone over to Renata after trying Perchloroethylene, which I found to be useless, found it took hours to evaporate of the balance and was not convinced it cleaned anything.

Mind you the Perchloroethylene did come from eBay so might have been anything in the bottle, as you have no guarantee you get what you pay for on eBay

 

[oldhippy]

Get yourself a can of Ronsonol to clean hairsprings or the complete balance it is safe with shellac. You will need a a small pot with a screw lid as it evaporates very quick, you can leave parts in it for days and no harm will come to them. I used it for years and never had any problems with it. 

I will now wait for jdm to criticise Ronsonol as he always does.