Mainspring lubrication, manual and automatic

[Geo]

It's not a new barrel Bob, it's a new spring in a ring keeper. That's how I read it anyway.

Regarding the question I would like to hear what some of the professionals have to say.

[bobm12]

Oh I misunderstood, I thought it was the whole thing! :) I would too like to hear from the pros!

[anilv]

If the packing is paper/unsealed then remove, clean and relube.

 

If the packing is obviously new and sealed then you're good to go.

 

Get a spring winder...you'll never imagine how you'd coped without one before.

 

How are you planning on getting the spring out of its keeper?

 

Anil

[clockboy]

My advise is to just pop the new mainspring into the barrel (the correct way round) new mainsprings are normally pre-lubed with teflon. If it is an auto-winder a very small amount of braking grease on the barrel rim (Grease must not be creep into main barrel) Winding by hand is a bad idea I experienced many tangles and destroyed springs before I perfected it this method. 

Edited January 5, 2015 by clockboy

[canthus]

Thanks for all your comments. 

I too am a bit worried that the spring may be old (described as 'new old stock') and the lube has degraded. 

In fact, I am wondering if the existing spring may be just as useable as a very old spring which may have 'set' more in the holder!!

I don't think they used teflon as a lube in the 60'70's. 

I am tempted to clean first. 

I have done several hand removal and fittings, so ok with this method. 

Likely I would push the spring into the barrel and then remove from barrel, as removing from keeper is very difficult as it can come out either side! 

Will assess spring condition when received, then decide. 

Only an experienced hobbyist with watches so, whilst desirable, a spring winder set is probably too expensive for me.

[rustycolt]

While we are on the topic, I am also wondering about replacement mainspring expectations beyond those already expressed by canthus. Specifically, do replacements normally come pre-lubricated, and can you normally press them straight from the holder to the barrel - or will they need to be removed and rewound?

 

I've never bought one as a replacement part, and although there are indications and clues in conversations such as this, I'd like to know what one should expect to receive out of the box.

[Legarm]

I have serviced a Seiko 6139B with no problems regarding the lubrication of the Barrel, with braking grease. I have now just serviced a Seiko 6138A, after assembly with the same amount of grease on the barrel wall, the movement, when wound, only runs for a short period.

 

Could this be a problem with the greasing of the barrel. The pawl lever and wheel are operating as they should.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Mark]

It may be useful to wear it (or put it on a winder) until you feel it should be fully wound and then remove the weight and manually let the power down to see how much reserve it has.

 

If it has not wound up enough you will feel it and you can then check if the spring clutch is not biting enough.

 

If it has a lot of reserve but is still stopping then you know there is a mechanical fault with the train, escapement, motion or keyless work.

[number98]

Hi all, I recently bought a moebius 8200 as the shop in my area doesn't sell the glissalube 20. So I was wondering can i use it in automatic mainspring barrel? I tried twice on two movement, the former is a miyota 8200 while the latter is eta 2842 but the problem is that when i hand wind it, it starts to slip. Im not sure is slip is the right term to describe this but i can feel it when winding using the crown and theres a sound too. Im not sure hows the power reserve are but its keeping good time. Thank you very much.

[Maurice]

I use 8200 in all barrels. Auto springs are meant to slip to protect the auto wind mechanism!

[number98]

I use 8200 in all barrels. Auto springs are meant to slip to protect the auto wind mechanism!

Oh i see. Yeah they are meant to slip. Thanks a lot. Then i shall use 8200 without having second thoughts! 

[Blacklab]

The 8200 on the barrel walls may be causing too much slip. Have been using 8217 (braking grease) on the barrel walls and 8200 on the coils, seems to work fine.

[number98]

The 8200 on the barrel walls may be causing too much slip. Have been using 8217 (braking grease) on the barrel walls and 8200 on the coils, seems to work fine.

Oh i see. I shall buy the 8217 from either ofrei or cousinsuk! Thanks for the reply!

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[JohnR725]

If you look at the link below it explains what 8217 is. Then they talk about all the other types which is interesting reading.

 

The purpose of the grease on the outer wall is to allow the automatic to slip when it's supposed to. The grease is peculiar in that it has a braking effect which means It holds until it releases and it has a high pressure lubrication because this is a very high-pressure situation. So wrong choice will mean premature slipping or not slipping when it's supposed to and conceivably wearing out the barrel.

 

http://hiro.alliancehorlogere.com/en/Under_the_Loupe/Moebius_8217

 

So in the video below it explains one of the consequences of wrong lubrication. Then the only problem with the video is the nifty white lubrication is TEPA Grease Which none of us are going to ever lay hands on.

 

[Geo]

It still sounds like magnetism is an issue. Did you demagnetise the whole movement or just the balance? I always demagnetise the complete movement, and sometimes it takes more than one attempt.

Interesting video John. It does seem like rather a lot of grease is being applied.

[Marc]

That's a heck of a lot of grease. And there was me thinking that my jar of 8213 should last me for ever.

[JohnR725]

Each time I look at the video it looks to me to be a extreme quantity of grease. Except I asked someone who does watches for a living who's familiar with the person and the recommendations of the particular lubrication and he insisted that that was not excessive quantity.

 

If you look at the link below their using the same lubrication notice the barrel wall it's basically invisible. Although if you put as much grease as shown in the video and put the mainspring in I suspect it's going to squeeze out and probably look like this anyway.

 

http://hiro.alliancehorlogere.com/en/Under_the_Loupe/TEPA_Grease

[number98]

Hi guys, recently purchased a moebius 8217 glissalube for automatic mainspring. But was wondering how does one lubricate the wall? Is it lubricate all of those notches in the mainspring barrel wall? Or just one? Thank you very much.

[rogart63]

Good question :) I have this saved on my computer and i printed it out on the printer . Have you guys and girls seen it before ? .http://www.bhi.co.uk/Documents/certificate/Tech/PractLub.pdf

[Geo]

I used to have that saved before I lost all my saved stuff on my IPad. Thanks for posting Roger.

[number98]

Good question :) I have this saved on my computer and i printed it out on the printer . Have you guys and girls seen it before ? .http://www.bhi.co.uk/Documents/certificate/Tech/PractLub.pdf

Hi thanks for the documents. But it doesn't tells you how do you lubricate or where to lubricate the wall of the barrel. It's just tell the capillary action which I'm always do that by putting d5.

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[Gary]

Is 8217 for the wall of the barrel or the mainspring itself?

[number98]

Is 8217 for the wall of the barrel or the mainspring itself?

8217 is for the wall of the barrel. As other grease like the 8200 causes the mainspring slips too early! I tried it. Mainspring normally I put two drops of d5.

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[number98]

Good question :) I have this saved on my computer and i printed it out on the printer . Have you guys and girls seen it before ? .http://www.bhi.co.uk/Documents/certificate/Tech/PractLub.pdf

Hi there sorry I read back the document again and saw that it said the barrel must be lubricated at three position! Thanks for the guide! I didn't spot it yesterday as I was very tired. Because it was midnight when I was reading the document!

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[mwilkes]

I just put three small blobs on the barrel wall with a yellow oiler, avoiding the bottom of the barrel