Mainspring winders

[VWatchie]

What about this lot? Any good? They look a lot like the winders shown by rogart63. What about winding direction? I'm under the impression some winders have a "pin/peg" rather than a hook (no?), to be able to accomodate both left and right mainsprings.

Edited April 12, 2018 by VWatchie

[jdrichard]

What about this lot? Any good? They look a lot like the winders shown by rogart63. What about winding direction? I'm under the impression some winders have a "pin/peg" rather than a hook (no?), to be able to accomodate both left and right mainsprings.

All of my winders have pins and not hooks.

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[VWatchie]

So, found this "K & D Improved Main Spring Winder No. 128" on eBay and I also found a tutorial on how to use it, so I bought it. I'll try to let you know what I think as soon as I've tested it.

[matabog]

Hello!

So I managed to invest in a used "Bergeon 2795 Nivaflex" Mainspring winder . IMHO the winder barrels are a bit too big for the inner loop of the mainsprings.

So my question is, fo anyone who had both:

What is the difference between "Bergeon Nivaflex" winders and "Bergeon ETA" winders, the latter being the one especially made for ETA calibers.

Thank you!

Bogdan

[clockboy]

If it is the same winder as my one I found that the hole/slit was too small to allow the the spring(especally auto springs) to fully load into the retaining barrel. So I filed a little to make this hole bigger and they now work fine.

However I normally use my "mastercraft" winder which I find easier to use.

[matabog]

thank you for the answer, but I was wondering about the barrels dimensions, and them being different between the old Bergeon winder, Nivaflex and the new one, for ETa Calibers. I didn't have a problem with the slit ,yet.

[TimFitz]

On 4/9/2018 at 10:38 AM, rogart63 said:

Have a couple of incoming winders. A adjustable K&D and some others. Have high expectations on the K&D  winder.  Anyone tested such a winder? 

I have Two K&D mainspring winders (wrist & P/W size) they are both very old and work great . I think that huge wooden box of Bergeon individual winders is fantastic looking. To me the expense is unnecessary just to make your bench look fancy.  How many mainsprings are a nonprofessional going to rewind?

 

[jdrichard]

Get good quality winder. Period.


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[VWatchie]

I’m considering ordering a couple of Bergeon mainspring winders from CousinsUK, and I really want to get it right as these are expensive tools.

The way I read it, the specified diameter of each winder is the outer diameter of the winder’s barrel drum. That is, I would need to order a winder having a smaller specified diameter than the inner diameter of the mainspring barrel I’m going to use it with? For example, if the inner diameter of my mainspring drum is 9.80 mm (as is the actual case) a Bergeon No.6 Winder Ø9.80mm would be too large, or just right, no, yes?

[VWatchie]

Anyone having a Bergeon mainspring winder (any number) who can measure the outer diameter of the winder barrel drum (the part that goes into the mainspring barrel) for me? I'd really appreciate it! Thanks!

[Marc]

This should help.

7023 A B C.pdf

[VWatchie]

10 hours ago, Marc said:

This should help.

7023 A B C.pdf

Indeed! A surprisingly educational and clarifying illustration! Thank you very much!

So, we now know that when buying a Bergeon mainspring winder, the specified diameter is the outer diameter of the winder's drum. Brilliant! 

[matabog]

Don't be surprised if the arbors would be too large in diameter! I use smaller number arbors and large number drums.

For example, for an ETA 2836 I used the #7 drum with #6 arbor. These are the sizes on my set (it says it's for Novodiac springs):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dadistic]

I'd like to have a complete set for that very reason, but due to budget (small) I'm having to accumulate a bit at a time.  I haven't calculated it yet, as it would be too discouraging, but I'm guessing that it will be more expensive that way over the long run.

Cheers -

[VWatchie]

I too would like to have a complete set, but as I'm just a hobbyist it would be really hard to defend the cost for a complete set, and buying a used set on eBay isn't much better, unfortunately!

 

Anyway, I have my "K & D Improved Main Spring Winder No. 128", which works for the movements I'm currently interested in (Vostok 24XX movements and Poljot 2614.2H). The tutorial I found for this K & D tool was somewhat helpful, but it has taken a lot of practice, trial and error, broken springs, and finding my own methods to get this tool to work for me. Actually, I'd like to share the experience that I've gained, but using words would just be... too wordy.

 

Anyway, the most important tip though (except the knowledge gained from the tutorial) would be to (I wonder if this is going to make any sense...) push the winding arbor of the tool away from the tool's barrel drum to make it easier to attach the inner mainspring coil to the winding arbor peg/pin. Then slowly pull the winding arbor, with the now attached mainspring, back into the inside of the tool's barrel drum until the mainspring touches the bottom of the drum (but not pressing on to it). At this point, tighten the two handle locking collars. That is, ignore the tutorial where it says "The winding arbor depth should be adjusted so that the spring hook is centred in the barrel".

 

Anyway, this is my method, and it works OK for me. It's still not easy though and I give no warranties! BTW, the winding arbor dosen't have a "spring hook" but a pin/peg, so it can be used with both left and right mainsprings, which indeed is a good thing!

[VWatchie]

I'm having a really hard time to let go of the thought of buying some Bergeon mainspring winders... I'm contemplating this Bergeon 5355 set:

The problem is that I have a much too little experience to determine whether my plan is realistic or not, and that's why I'd really like your input! So, the idea (or rather guess) is that this set will be sufficient for a majority of wristwatch mainspring barrels. The barrel drum outer diameters are 5.6, 6.0, 6.5, 7.1, 7.8, 8.6 and 9.8 millimetres. The plan is that when and if I bump into a movement having a larger mainspring barrel I'll buy the required winder separately, for example, when working on the Unitas 6497/6498.

Anyway, as I've already stated, my experience of various movements is still very limited. So far I've only been working on Vostok, Poljot, and the Unitas 6497/6498 movements. What I fear is that my assumption is incorrect, that is, that this set will NOT be sufficient for a majority of wristwatch mainspring barrels. Perhaps the majority of wristwatch mainspring barrel diameters are between 8.6 mm and 15 mm, or some other range? 

I'd really like to hear from those of you with a lot of experience. What would be your estimate?

 

[VWatchie]

As I've already mentioned in another post, I’d really like to have Bergeon’s largest mainspring winder set 5356, but it’s just silly expensive, both used and new. As I’m just into wristwatches (well, at least for now), and this set is marketed as for both pocket watches and wrist watches, I’m thinking it's likely overkill for my needs, however nice it would be to own.

Bergeon also has the above smaller set 5355, including just seven of the smaller sizes. It’s not marketed in any particular way, but my guess is that perhaps it was put together to fit the mainspring barrels of a majority of wristwatches, and this is where I’d like to have your opinions. Two of the winders would indeed fit the movements I’ve been working on so far, the Vostok 24XX calibres and the Poljot 2614.2H. However, it would be inadequate for the Unitas 6498 that I also like a lot. Then again, the Unitas 6498 is originally a pocket watch movement even though it’s often used in large wristwatches.

 

The outer diameters of the barrel drums in this smaller 5355 set are 5.6, 6.0, 6.5, 7.1, 7.8, 8.6 and 9.8 millimetres. The question is; how large a percentage of "all wristwatches" will this smaller set cover? If it’s somewhere around 75 % I suppose I could (just barely, maybe) justify the cost. If it is less, well then no!

 

So, what do you think?

[jdm]

4 hours ago, VWatchie said:

So, what do you think?

Just think how many brand new mainsprings you could buy with the price of that largely ornamental set.

These go from the packaging roundel to the barrel without any tool.

[oldhippy]

I never used a watch mainspring winder. I could not get on with them.

There for I cannot help you.

[clockboy]

I have the Bergeon Winder 1/2 set but had to modify it to work. i found the hole that accepts the spring when winding galas too small. However if you see a Master craft winder I recommend you purchase.  See pics to see how it works.\

[VWatchie]

2 hours ago, jdm said:

Just think how many brand new mainsprings you could buy with the price of that largely ornamental set.

These go from the packaging roundel to the barrel without any tool.

Yes, that's definitely what I do when I can. The Bergeon mainspring winder sets are, as I've already mentioned, silly expensive and I could probably buy me close to 40 fine brand new Swiss mainsprings for the price of the smaller set.

The problem is getting hold of suitable replacement mainsprings. As long as it is a Swiss or other well know popular movement it seems to be no big deal, but getting hold of, for example, new mainsprings for vintage Russian watches can be quite difficult. CousinsUK has some, and if lucky you can find a generic mainspring with the right height, thickness, length, and bridle, but certainly not always. Vostok mainsprings, for example, are everywhere but come in barrel completes, and those barrels don't fit the vintage versions. Poljot springs are hard to come by. CousinsUK has some, but far from all, and so on.

[ecodec]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

I never used a watch mainspring winder. I could not get on with them.

There for I cannot help you.

I have never used one either. I have fitted some by hand after repair breaking all the rules no doubt but they have worked fine !!. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by ecodec

[VWatchie]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

I never used a watch mainspring winder. I could not get on with them.

There for I cannot help you.

Well, nevertheless, thanks for your reply OldHippy! I have a K&D mainspring winder, but it's really a pain to use. It was basically after having finished Mark Lovick's watch repair courses that I felt I needed mainspring winders. In the course, Mark was very explicit about installing mainsprings using your bare fingers (which is what I used to do). I believe he said something along the lines: "VERY, VERY BAD PRACTICE". It really scared me, and that's really one of the reasons I want to get myself some well-working mainspring winders.

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, clockboy said:

(---)However if you see a Master craft winder I recommend you purchase.  See pics to see how it works.\

1

That looks great! Can I buy yours, pretty please with sugar on top? I'll save a search with notifications on eBay right now. Any other sites worth searching?

[jdm]

2 hours ago, VWatchie said:

CousinsUK has some, and if lucky you can find a generic mainspring with the right height, thickness, length, and bridle, but certainly not always.

You don't need all the sizes to match, especially for handwound where winding torque is not a major issue. Search for "mainspring formula".