Jump to content

Recommended Posts

As frenchie says lighter fluid is great, alcohol (IPA) rinse is fine just don't get it anywhere near the balance or pallet. As for the oils unfortunately you are really stuck with Moebius rip off Swiss, you will just have to bite the bullet & take out a second mortgage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dear Sirs, I really enjoyed it links the information and experience sharing. Now I want to share with you a small test I made about lubricants in watchmaking. I hope to enjoy. The link leads to the site where they can download material consisting essentially of work performed in an Excel document with several references.

Please see this link.

 


 

Any corrections or comments are welcomed.

 

Guido

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Dear Sirs, I really enjoyed it links the information and experience sharing. Now I want to share with you a small test I made about lubricants in watchmaking. I hope to enjoy. The link leads to the site where they can download material consisting essentially of work performed in an Excel document with several references.
Please see this link.
 
 
Any corrections or comments are welcomed.
 
Guido

 

Hi, Guido,

Welcome to the forum. Must say the link & download supplied is the most informative I have read on lubrication excellent paper. Thanks very much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Dear Sirs, I really enjoyed it links the information and experience sharing. Now I want to share with you a small test I made about lubricants in watchmaking. I hope to enjoy. The link leads to the site where they can download material consisting essentially of work performed in an Excel document with several references.
Please see this link.
 
 
Any corrections or comments are welcomed.
 
Guido

 

 

Do people actually use these motor oil and other alternatives?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really. In professional watchmakers no place for experiments. There are standards which lead to accurate results.

 

However in the present essay are shown, REFERENCE ONLY, the properties of automotive lubricants.

 

Lubricants have certain properties that make them suitable for conditions such as temperature, work requirements, etc.

 

Knowing the properties of lubricants, particularly its viscosity is measured in cSt. (Centistokes) allows us to better understand the art of lubricating watches.

 

On a personal level I have experimented with synthetic lubricant automotive in Swiss watches. But watches are my property that I use for testing.

 

When it comes to work, I use recognized as Moebius 8000, in the most critical parts of the Swiss watch lubricants. For example the mechanism of escape: Escape wheel, anchor pallets, pivots balance staff.

 

Here a link performance of a clock lubricated with synthetic oil vehicle.


 


 

GuidoV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Guido, here is a translation for the rest of us :)

 

"Actually, they don't. [answer to Blake question]. Professional watchmakers have room for experimentation. There are norms that are conducive to precise results. However, in the present table, the properties of automotive lubricants are shown only for reference and their properties. Lubricants have certain properties that makes them appropriate to fit certain conditions such as temperature, work conditions, etc. To know the properties of lubricants -- like viscosity, measured in cst (centistokes) - allow us understand better the art of watch lubrication. Personally, I've experimented with synthetic motor oils in Swiss watches. Those are my own watches that I use for experimentation. When I actually work I recognize that lubricants like Moebius 8000 are indicated in most critical parts in Swiss watches. For example, the escape mechanism, pallet fork, pivots. 

 

Here is a graph of a watch that has been lubricated with synthetic motor oil:  .... "

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the help with the translation but the truth is that I write in Spanish and use google translator subsequently rectified.

Thanks Bob. Something bad happened to my answer I believed was translated.

 

Thank you for your words Super WRT Addict, too.

  

To Rob. Thank you very much for the table already copied and will be in my files and references of lubricants in watchmaking.

 

Guido

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome Guido. From the little knowledge I have about various oils (yes I know a little knowledge is a dangerous thing) and disregarding viscosities - watch oil is designed to stay in place, car oil is designed to flow all over the place and has slip additives, motorcycle oil is basically the same as car oil but without the slip additives as this would cause the (wet) clutch to slip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're right WRT Addict, do not mean that we should abandon the canons established lubrication.

  

But understanding aspects of lubrication in vehicles helps with understanding the ultimate goal of lubricants: reduce contact metal metal, plastic or metal in a mechanism, to prevent wear and make efficient mechanisms.

 

Abraham-Louis Breguet a famous watchmaker once said: "Give me the perfect oil and I will give you the perfect watch." Mechanical watches do not stop being that, machines that need a suitable lubricant.

 

In the document I have given a way to Essay, we refer to the properties of the best known in watchmaking lubricants. Our goal is to have a better perspective of the role the various types of oils available in the watch industry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dear Jim, Thank you for the reference. Whether it is saved and ready to share.

 

Here I share a link that might be useful.


Also a valuable letter on moebius lubricants.

Thanks for the contribution.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

Guido

moebius_general_recom (2).pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're looking for more detailed information on Mobius oils they could be found at the link below.

 

Starting on page 18 is a section labeled "Cleaning, Lubrication, Surface Treatment"  This is a rather interesting section of the PDF explaining the importance of cleaning properly. Then reading farther on you'll come to a paragraph starting off with the interesting question of    "Why do watches require special oils?"  Where it explains the difference between lubricating a watch and lubricating some other mechanical devices.

 

http://www.m-p.co.uk/muk/acrobat/hse/moebius-hs-sheets/moebius-specsbook.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to the forum John, and thank you for posting the information on oils. It's always good to hear from a new member, and I look forward to hearing about you exploits in horology, be it professional or hobby. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Yes, I think I'm gonna do that.  Thanks!
    • Looks like a fun project. I suspect there is little that would stop it passing modern electrical safety standards, so long as it is earthed, has the correct rated fuse, and a suitable mains cable attached. How does the speed controller work? Some of these old speed controllers use an interesting arrangement of compressible carbon disks as a variable resistor. I have an old Singer sewing machine that uses this arrangement, and a slightly newer Kenwood Chef mixer that uses a triac speed controller. Both are 1970s vintage, and both work well. I would inspect any capacitors associated with the motor assuming there are any, and perhaps replace those with modern suitably rated ones, but the rest I would suspect is fine. If the motor runs, then it will probably keep running. If this is a brushed motor, you might like to take the opportunity to clean the commutator with a bristle brush (not a steel wire one) and inspect the motor carbon brushes too. If the brushes are badly worn or damaged, they can kill the commutator pretty quickly.
    • When working with small metal parts, (not necessarily watch parts, but this applies with those too), I will superglue the part to something I can easily hold, for example plastic card stock, or some other metal, then file away, drill, etc.  then dissolve the superglue in acetone to remove the part.
    • A bit of a classic Timex. So much so that Timex recently released a Snoopy version of the new Miyota automatic based Marlins, and a bunch of other self homages in the Peanuts Charlie Brown, Snoopy & Friends range. This more petite version, I'm guessing from the mid seventies, is the one I remember from my childhood, blue dial and all. It is heading in my direction as a "non runner" (no surprises there), and I was the only bid at £1.93  
    • I have recently purchased a National, Electric Watch Cleaning Machine. Attached is a photo for reference and identification of the model type. As can be seen, it has a fairly typical design, reminiscent of many other types, particularly Elma Super Elite. In fact, I do wonder which came first - the National or the Elma. My musings on this point later. This is a very old machine, circa late 1940’s, 1950’s, but they seem to turn up sometimes on eBay, in various conditions ranging from the “beyond hope” and only really suitable as a donor for parts, and the “old but serviceable” and might-be-worth-a-punt-on machines. This one fell into the middle somewhere, as it was a bit tatty and the heating element did not work. On the plus side, it had all its original cleaning fluid jars and lids, and the motor and speed control gave smooth, controllable spinning and no play in the bearings. I went to visit the seller to inspect it and we did a deal on the spot. This is not always possible on eBay, but as the seller had listed it as for collection only (due to its weight), it was a possibility on this occasion. Once I had it home and gave it the once over, I decided that I would have to either do without heating for the drying stage, or find a replacement element. At the same time, it was very obvious that all of the original cabling was not safe to leave in place and it would all have to be removed and replaced. Any other electrical parts deemed unsafe would also be replaced as I inspected them. So - the idea of a restoration (of sorts) was born. Now - it is not my intention to restore it to the point where it could pass current electrical safety standards, but I will be making it as safe as possible, without losing any of the essential character of the original machine. This is not going to be for resale, so being safe to use is an acceptable compromise, in my opinion. I will however, perform testing on it once the electrical work is done, to make sure that the essential aspects of earth leakage, earth bonds and polarity etc. are passed. (PAT Testing included.) Whilst this is not likely to turn into another example of a superb restoration of an Elma Super Elite (as seen elsewhere on these forums), I hope at least to have at the end of it, a perfectly serviceable watch cleaning machine, and a restoration story - of sorts - of a vintage piece of English watch making and servicing machinery. So first off - the before pictures. This one is a good view of the machine and its cosmetic condition, as purchased. The base is a heavy, cast alloy jobbie, with its original crackle paint job beginning to flake away in places, where the years of cleaning chemicals have attacked it,  but generally sound. The jars still had residues of cleaning and rinse chemicals present. The first wash jar (front left), was particularly grotty and can’t have been cleaned for years. Fairly ironic not to clean the thing, that cleans the things! Maybe it was just left unused and unloved for many years. The mains cable was a cloth-bound type I have not seen in years and could well have been original as it still had the old UK wiring standard colours of red/black/green. Also adding to the vintage-ness, was a very old, Bakelite three pin plug. This must have been one of the first of its type as I have not seen one in brown Bakelite before! (And I am 62...) Anyway, that’s enough for now, as I’m not even sure anyone wants to read much about such an old machine. If anyone is interested though, please add comments and I’ll add to the story as I make progress. At the very least, I hope I have found a potential solution to finding/ making your own heating elements for these old machines, which could also include providing replacements for Elma Super Elite, RM80/90 HCS511 etc. Machines. More details later...
×
×
  • Create New...