Jump to content

Watch of Today


mk3

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, steve1811uk said:

Amplitude reading 192 degrees DU which equates to approx. 300 degrees real amplitude.

That's interesting I would have thought 192 degrees to be the "real amplitude". If you can explain that I'd really appreciate it. Thanks! Very pretty watch BTW!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, steve1811uk said:

Amplitude reading 192 degrees DU which equates to approx. 300 degrees real amplitude.

oh dear you shouldn't have said that to this group. I would suggest finding the nearest fallout shelter and hiding until it blows over. You might think of hiring a bodyguard for a while. in the meantime I'm going to have a laugh about this and wish I had done it as it was a beautiful thing to say.

 

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

oh dear you shouldn't have said that to this group. I would suggest finding the nearest fallout shelter and hiding until it blows over. You might think of hiring a bodyguard for a while. in the meantime I'm going to have a laugh about this and wish I had done it as it was a beautiful thing to say.

 

Ok so its been a couple of hours now and the suspense is starting to take effect. I've even stayed awake for an explanation 🙂. Actually I've been busy sorting out a million watch parts. My only thought is that it has something to do with the electric powered oscillator, but why the timegrapher's  amplitude reading wouldnt be true i have no idea. Is it time to think outside of the box ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/6/2023 at 4:44 PM, Razz said:

Here is my one of a few Mickey Mouse watches. Timex 2471, 35mm case. Except for 1 scratch on the dial very clean. Chrome plating intact. Caseback kind of scratched from others removing. First picture crystal as purchases, second polished and 3rd is new crystal.DSCN53172.thumb.JPG.4dedc1c35ff03176bd0e3f726c5b51d3.JPGDSCN53182.thumb.JPG.a982a3b7a62c63b066874d61d83d9806.JPGDSCN53542.thumb.JPG.8c30f82162241cdec0495c270412623d.JPGDSCN53552.thumb.JPG.c92a4f7583b6462dd0d964643289ca2d.JPGDSCN53562.thumb.JPG.e7d53fdff6331e7101cc1b7a6fe4f067.JPG

My understanding is the last digits of the dial number are the caliber and year. So caliber 24 and year 1971? @JerseyMo this one is inspired by your many informative posts on Timexs. Have a telephone dial on the way, we will see if the seller comes through, as I previously bid on the lot and lost but it was relisted.

Took 12 days but finally got my Timex lot. The telephone dial is in near mint condition. The case and back is in the ultrasonic and I have the correct size crystal. Bad news is not a runner and I am a novice with Timex watches. Dial indicates 027 movement from 1975.  Could be original crown and the stem seems different. Fully wound but the balance seems like it wants to go...DSCN53912.thumb.JPG.0c79690ff67b3a471714c83f11448a06.JPGDSCN53892.thumb.JPG.aa67c568c61f78f54102602047d4277a.JPGDSCN53922.thumb.JPG.07e468a0f8a06201a157f32cc335f2b2.JPG

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Razz said:

Took 12 days but finally got my Timex lot. The telephone dial is in near mint condition. The case and back is in the ultrasonic and I have the correct size crystal. Bad news is not a runner and I am a novice with Timex watches. Dial indicates 027 movement from 1975.  Could be original crown and the stem seems different. Fully wound but the balance seems like it wants to go...DSCN53912.thumb.JPG.0c79690ff67b3a471714c83f11448a06.JPGDSCN53892.thumb.JPG.aa67c568c61f78f54102602047d4277a.JPGDSCN53922.thumb.JPG.07e468a0f8a06201a157f32cc335f2b2.JPG

Turns out I need a step crystal but able to put it back together after cleaning the case in the ultrasonic with dawn dish soap without messing up the dial. Also able to set the hands and change the day and date after some manipulation. II think rust is in the minute wheel and that may be holding the balance from running more than 4 seconds at a time...some more pictures. The more I look at this dial the more I like the style, probably because it harkens me back to 1975 and my 12 year old self...more pics!DSCN53932.thumb.JPG.c1ed48d979cd8a6e2f63fa8055fc9415.JPGDSCN53942.thumb.JPG.a209b93d002bf3996c8918c2fb06be23.JPGDSCN53952.thumb.JPG.0df8f4aaba6c990ce8eeee1aadd014c4.JPGDSCN53962.thumb.JPG.bd7b97b1d771516c907a350d809b75a1.JPGDSCN53972.thumb.JPG.04b11dca4448efbc047620cb19440ba2.JPGDSCN53982.thumb.JPG.0f6cf4b508c5a43de5899a91269947ce.JPG

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Ok so its been a couple of hours now and the suspense is starting to take effect. I've even stayed awake for an explanation 🙂. Actually I've been busy sorting out a million watch parts. My only thought is that it has something to do with the electric powered oscillator, but why the timegrapher's  amplitude reading wouldnt be true i have no idea. Is it time to think outside of the box ?

thinking of box? The group got reorganized a box for everything every subject should go on its own box so asking a question about why the amplitude is what it is on the timing machine shouldn't that go on a different box? It really inappropriate of me to answer that question of and put it here? Although I do find it really quite amusing you would only understand if you grasp something and if you've ever seen the electric watch balance wheel at least the newer ones. Let's go see if I can find something to quote

11 hours ago, steve1811uk said:

which equates to approx. 300 degrees real amplitude.

translation of the quote is visually it looks beautiful for amplitude. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Ok so its been a couple of hours now and the suspense is starting to take effect. I've even stayed awake for an explanation 🙂. Actually I've been busy sorting out a million watch parts. My only thought is that it has something to do with the electric powered oscillator, but why the timegrapher's  amplitude reading wouldnt be true i have no idea. Is it time to think outside of the box ?

Well, here goes. The timegrapher when set to 52 degrees lift angle gives a reading of 192 degrees DU. However, the true lift angle is not known by myself as I couldn't find any published information. Also it is not known how the timegrapher reacts to the sound of the electronic balance. So I used the slow motion video technique to see how much the balance actually moves and found that it moves 300 degrees either way from its rest position. A good read up on the technique is here:

https://adventuresinamateurwatchfettling.com/tag/el-370/

Hope that makes sense.

Steve

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, steve1811uk said:

However, the true lift angle is not known by myself as I couldn't find any published information.

as a reminder lift angle is only of importance to people with those nifty newfangled timing machines they can measure amplitude. so this is why you don't find lift angles for any of the vintage watches typically because nobody was looking at the amplitude with the timing machines how sad the primitive watchmaker not obsessing over amplitude.

36 minutes ago, steve1811uk said:

Also it is not known how the timegrapher reacts to the sound of the electronic balance.

then yes that's the other itsy-bitsy problem what does the waveform look like on oscilloscope. 

 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, steve1811uk said:

Well, here goes. The timegrapher when set to 52 degrees lift angle gives a reading of 192 degrees DU. However, the true lift angle is not known by myself as I couldn't find any published information. Also it is not known how the timegrapher reacts to the sound of the electronic balance. So I used the slow motion video technique to see how much the balance actually moves and found that it moves 300 degrees either way from its rest position. A good read up on the technique is here:

https://adventuresinamateurwatchfettling.com/tag/el-370/

Hope that makes sense.

Steve

Ah ok thanks steve, yes it makes sense and i did know this 🤦‍♂️.  I was overthinking it. Our cheap timing machines are usually calculating amplitudes of lever escapements.  The tics and the tocs  generated through electrical pulses and magnets or something must be timed differently ? Sound different ? 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I finally got around to ordering a genuine crystal replacement for my Seiko sportsmatic 5 weekdater 6619-8010. It came today and with a little bit of research and having the correct tools got it installed without messing up the dial. I liked this as a daily wearer before and now it really pops and I love it! Probably top 5 of my collection. Aftermarket Barton silicon elite band that is super comfortable. I do have the original/ signed bracelet as well.

DSCN54112.thumb.JPG.e24bf572e088776dad8662eef3ba4a06.JPGDSCN54122.thumb.JPG.be66f81e0860d7f8b1a2c955febff7a8.JPGDSCN54132.thumb.JPG.cc9e82cd847839773c1b536c2cdb51b0.JPGDSCN54142.thumb.JPG.5b588e118c2cf110db5ddbce86469925.JPGDSCN54152.thumb.JPG.72d768e1b2affd24b15bb84d921fbe7e.JPGDSCN54162.thumb.JPG.acbf26eeaabd110c0811e2250514bb8e.JPG

Edited by Razz
  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

Finished up this ~1969 Longines 285 (Ref 8265-4) yesterday. Such a nice looking movement and a joy to work on.

 

1.thumb.jpg.30a6e5deaa84ea3b43b2f2a15596dcc7.jpg

 

2.thumb.jpg.45e06cdae4a3f5e8628b23e67446788a.jpg

You always get me with crosshair dials. Nice. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/19/2023 at 9:55 AM, steve1811uk said:

So I used the slow motion video technique to see how much the balance actually moves

Thanks! In my experience, that's the only way to establish the amplitude with definite certainty (give or take a few degrees), and having done this a few times I no longer trust my timing machines all that much. Anyway, TMs are a convenient way to get a rough idea of the health of the movement.

On 7/19/2023 at 10:36 AM, JohnR725 said:

you don't find lift angles for any of the vintage watches typically because nobody was looking at the amplitude with the timing machines how sad the primitive watchmaker not obsessing over amplitude.

I've mentioned it before. TMs almost killed my interest in servicing and repairing. All I could see the TM telling me was "you suck!". These days I always test the watches for a couple of weeks and that will tell me if it's a good or bad (or something in between) timekeeper.

The watch I'm wearing today (a well used Raketa 2326.H), and have been wearing for the past 45 days, gains on average of 0.3 seconds per day. When I put it on my TM the TM becomes a real sourpuss who wants to ruin my life. OK, I'm exaggerating a bit, but to clarify.

Edited by VWatchie
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Thanks! In my experience, that's the only way to establish the amplitude with definite certainty (give or take a few degrees), and having done this a few times I no longer trust my timing machines all that much. Anyway, TMs are a convenient way to get a rough idea of the health of the movement.

I've also started to check this as well after downloading a slow motion app. The machines are good for pointing you in the right direction of a fault though. Its also nice to see an improvement of the trace, i do agree and often dismiss to a point what the amplitude reads. I've had a movement coming to the end of its wind showing 300° it can be very confusing for a beginner.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, VWatchie said:

I've mentioned it before. TMs almost killed my interest in servicing and repairing. All I could see the TM telling me was "you suck!".

I think I've mentioned this before but the instructor I had at school George used to say don't please the timing machine. I wish my boss at work would understand this as we spend way too much time trying to make watches perfect that were never that perfect in the first place.

The unfortunate expectation of just because you have a timing machine that now your watch should perform at some magical specification that the watch was never designed to do. Plus the obsession with this group of a obsession with amplitude. Whereas if you look at timing companies specifications they typically only concerned really about timekeeping. For amplitude typically they don't want to go over 300° when the watches fully wound up and they usually specify an amplitude at 24 hours but they really are only concerned about timekeeping.

Then for instance ultimate timekeeping chronometer watches they're not timed on a timing machine not for the chronometer certification. They're basically timed by visual observation Over several days in several positions in temperatures. In other words all they care about is the watch keep time.

4 hours ago, VWatchie said:

The watch I'm wearing today (a well used Raketa 2326.H), and have been wearing for the past 45 days, gains on average of 0.3 seconds per day. When I put it on my TM the TM becomes a real sourpuss who wants to ruin my life. OK, I'm exaggerating a bit, but to clarify.

Watches themselves are interesting in that they average their problems over time. Timing machines tend to look at things instantaneously. At least for the most part some timing machines and some of the software let you do other ways of looking at things like a time plot. With the time plot you can see the fluctuations of the power through the gear train in a nice graphical display. All gear trains will have power fluctuations some trains because of poor manufacturing or because they didn't have a timing machine to please it's just what they do will have dramatic power fluctuations. Those power fluctuations will show up on the timing machine. Sometimes if you look at the numbers like amplitude you'll see them slowly increasing and decreasing by quite a bit as a  gear train power fluctuation issue. Short of replacing all the gears not always recommended remanufacturing the watch to something it wasn't also not recommended basically you don't worry about it. Although it is really nice to have a time plot capability to see why they are having a problem so you don't have to get upset worry about it.

The timing machine is still an excellent device for diagnosing problems regulating watches but the most important thing still is does the watch keep time over time we would all sleep a lot better if that's all we were worried about. Then quit trying to please a timing machine with watches that were never meant necessarily to do whatever you perceive the timing machine thinks there supposed to do. Then yes I know it's really hard to say that and do that which is why I spend a lot of time in front of the timing machine trying to get things perfect being perfect is really bad In watch repair.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Started this at the weekend, but got side tracked with a 3D printing project my son was working on. I suppose this is one of the advantages of doing this as a hobby instead of a job in that you can pick and choose when you do it, or not.

Anyway, I finished this September 1981 Seiko 6309 last night and I must admit that it came out well and is performing excellently... So far.

The watch was a non runner and is all original apart from a new crystal and a screw that was missing on the plate on the dial side.

Here are the before and after shots, first is the before dial side:

2023-07-30-18-39-22-246.thumb.jpg.769f686d9dd93702694855e314eb1dd6.jpg

Here is the movement including the crusty green corrosion on the rotor - a pure nugget of green!

2023-07-30-18-44-03-817.thumb.jpg.27793893f883f95426d4e81a07598a62.jpg

And here is the timegrapher result, note that I did a quick check this morning and amplitude is continuing to improve as the new oil and cleaned parts settle in:

IMG_20230803_083352.thumb.jpg.a0fa787d788855ca919b77cd300cda5b.jpg

Here is the finished result:

2023-08-02-23-25-14-378.thumb.jpg.c699fbd261350e7870b086d558cf71a8.jpg

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This Croton with an ETA 2472 automatic I have shown before. Recently replaced the tension ring crystal and regulated the watch and added a basic black leather strap. Nice everyday watch. Lug width 18mm, lug to lug of 42mm, and case wdith of 34mm. No way to know for sure because the movement was made from '55 to '74, but seems late 60s or early 70s with the chunky hour markers and case shape. Not sure what the dial CHP is about but over has a nice patina. The case is all SS with drilled lugs which I have not polished (yet) so has a few marks.DSCN54212.thumb.JPG.025625bf60223dc200da153a8e5ffe3d.JPGDSCN54222.thumb.JPG.b04c25056a66185614c1721ca63fa500.JPGDSCN54232.thumb.JPG.c61c07907e2430e279ec7920f9b32f81.JPGDSCN54242.thumb.JPG.f051d2cc1153dc6cb4c7138a387aa2f1.JPG20230801_223116.thumb.jpg.4b4fea38f01dd7c4071b3e1771856311.jpgDSCN54252.thumb.JPG.e20f1ad1d4ce0db8a87d3c7cdefa1889.JPG

Working on the rate and the amplitude could be a bit better but so far it is not telling me it needs a full service quite yet as on the wrist it is less than 20 seconds a day fast and everything seems smooth.

Edit to add that I like the slightly inset crown which can still get a purchase on with a manual winder and with this ETA you can manually wind as well. I also like the way the crystal sits in the case, seems UFOish and more 60s I think.

Edited by Razz
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi there, I got home early from work and needed a watch fix! Started work on it around 5:00 and then looked up and it was 11:15. This is a Zodiac that I got on eBay and the case was a wreck, strange scratchings on the bezel, the picture below doesn't do it justice.

2023-08-03-17-34-55-763.thumb.jpg.1b616a054096127e8215cc889cd38bb3.jpg

The watch was running quite well and fairly clean inside, well compared to some of the other watches I take on!

2023-08-03-17-38-42-391.thumb.jpg.5a5af6b81b178190ce4f9201b0a1ea69.jpg

I took a quick time graph footprint before I started and the rate was +10 s/d, the amplitude was 235° and the beat error was 2.0 ms.

After I finished the full service I took the following timegrapher snap:

2023-08-03-22-52-14-732.thumb.jpg.2ec149ca578be8ebc3c175230e8a70b5.jpg

All better, except the amplitude, but this was already pretty good and I expect it to improve over the next 24-48 hours.

I worked on the case and got most of the damage out but had to stop before I over polished and changed the shape of the case. Apart from the crystal and strap everything else is original. Here is the finished watch:

2023-08-03-23-20-08-177.thumb.jpg.f87513a65815de13f7f2861b49b41131.jpg

Let me know what you think.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Waggy said:

Hi there, I got home early from work and needed a watch fix! Started work on it around 5:00 and then looked up and it was 11:15. This is a Zodiac that I got on eBay and the case was a wreck, strange scratchings on the bezel, the picture below doesn't do it justice.

2023-08-03-17-34-55-763.thumb.jpg.1b616a054096127e8215cc889cd38bb3.jpg

The watch was running quite well and fairly clean inside, well compared to some of the other watches I take on!

2023-08-03-17-38-42-391.thumb.jpg.5a5af6b81b178190ce4f9201b0a1ea69.jpg

I took a quick time graph footprint before I started and the rate was +10 s/d, the amplitude was 235° and the beat error was 2.0 ms.

After I finished the full service I took the following timegrapher snap:

2023-08-03-22-52-14-732.thumb.jpg.2ec149ca578be8ebc3c175230e8a70b5.jpg

All better, except the amplitude, but this was already pretty good and I expect it to improve over the next 24-48 hours.

I worked on the case and got most of the damage out but had to stop before I over polished and changed the shape of the case. Apart from the crystal and strap everything else is original. Here is the finished watch:

2023-08-03-23-20-08-177.thumb.jpg.f87513a65815de13f7f2861b49b41131.jpg

Let me know what you think.

I think I like that a lot! What is the movement?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • yes the things we read in the universe I did see some where it was either difficult to clean off or it contaminated the cleaning fluid there was some issue with cleaning. I was trying to remember something about grease where as opposed to a substance of a specific consistency they were suggesting it had a base oil with something to thicken it. That conceivably could indicate that the two could separate and that would be an issue. But there is something else going on here that I had remembered so I have a link below and the description of the 9501 notice the word that I highlighted? Notice that word appears quite a bit on this particular page like 9415 has that property all so they 8200 mainspring grease and that definitely has to be mixed up when you go to use it because it definitely separates. just in case you didn't remember that nifty word there is a Wikipedia entry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thixotropy   https://www.moebius-lubricants.ch/en/products/greases I wonder if what you're seeing is the boron nitride left behind after cleaning. In other words it's the high-pressure part of the grease and it's probably embedding itself into the metal which is why it doesn't clean off and shouldn't be a problem?
    • Yes and no. I use Moebius 9501 synthetic grease and it is significantly runnier than the Moebius 9504 synthetic grease (and I assume Molykote DX) that I previously used. I haven't seen 9504 spread and it is in my opinion the best grease money can buy. However, my current method of cleaning doesn't remove it from the parts, so that's why I have decided to use the 9501 instead. I believe I read somewhere that Molykote DX too is difficult to clean off. Thinking about it, I'm pretty sure my 9501 grease which expired in June 2022 is runnier now than it was when it was new, but whether new or old it always needs to be stirred before use. So, that's why I treat the parts of the keyless works, cannon pinion, etc. with epilame. That was very thoughtful of you and something that had completely passed me by. Not sure what the epilame will do when it wears off in a non-oiled hole. Anyone?
    • Hi not found one either yet,  close relative is the 436 and 4361 according to ranff.db.   It gives quire a lot of detail but not as good as the old site.      RANFF.DB.
    • No problem to replace the setting with the staking set. Press the new setting from inside, use flat face punch with hole. The punch must be wider than the setting, the hole to be as not to press at the stone, but only on the bush. Press by hand until the setting gets flush with the plate surface, so the punch must rest on it.
    • Yes, the arbor usually makes about 3 to 3.5 turns. But usually spring takes 2/3 to 3/4 of the free space in barrel, not 1/2, so take it for the calcullations. This way the change in torque is smaller. I have a picture for You, this one is little older, but no mater
×
×
  • Create New...