Watch of Today

[GuyMontag]

8 hours ago, Waggy said:

Finally got around to fixing up my Tag, been on my to-do list for over 6 months. Got it as a treat for myself and after parts arrived and I got motivated I finally finished it over the weekend.

Gorgeous watch!

[Waggy]

16 hours ago, rehajm said:

are there any shabby before pictures or was this one in proper shape to start?

Thanks for your kind words, actually when it arrived I was amazed at how good a shape it was in, so there would be little difference in the before and after shots, only needed a few scuffs taken out of the bracelet, and a quick service (which it didn't actually need). If it was in poorer shape I think I would have gotten round to it sooner, but there always seemed to be a watch in more need .

In a strange way I was a little disappointed when it arrived in such good shape. 

Edited January 16 by Waggy

[GuyMontag]

Just finished up this piece of 1970's funk from Bulova.

 

The pivot on the 3rd wheel was mushroomed, would not lubricating the pivot cause that or would it be that in conjunction with some other issue?


 

Edited January 18 by GuyMontag

[Waggy]

6 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

would not lubricating the pivot cause that or would it be that in conjunction with some other issue?

It's impossible to be sure, but lack of lubrication would eventually lead to this, and any other factor like debris would probably accelerate the process. How did you fix the problem?

[AndyHull]

Also check the associated jewel to ensure it is not cracked, or contaminated in some way and thus and acting like a cutting tool.

 

[GuyMontag]

10 hours ago, Waggy said:

It's impossible to be sure, but lack of lubrication would eventually lead to this, and any other factor like debris would probably accelerate the process. How did you fix the problem?

I had a spare third wheel on hand so swapped that in.

 

11 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

Also check the associated jewel to ensure it is not cracked, or contaminated in some way and thus and acting like a cutting tool.

 

That would make sense. I didn't specifically check the jewel for that reason but I did inspect them as I was pegging out and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary.

[Waggy]

Managed to rescue this Seiko 7009A (August 1978), it needed a new crystal and date change return spring (the huge banana shaped one), the bracelet needed some TLC on the bufing machine and re-shape some of the bent links, and the rest is original. I had to do a lot of gluing on the dial to replace all those markers, fortunately they were all still there , then re-lumed the hands,

Before, lots of :

After:

250 degrees amplitude and 0.0 beat error + 5 seconds/day face up and -5 seconds/day face down so very respectable for this old timer.

Edited January 20 by Waggy
Added information

[Waggy]

Just thought I would add a side note to my recent restoration, I used some super glue gel instead of regular super glue and found it far better to use on replacing the dial markers, here's how I did it in case anyone is interested

1. Positioned the loose dial marker in its correct position on the front of the dial
2. With the dial marker held in by friction I turned over the dial, so the back was now facing up
3. I then opened up the super glue gel and squeezed a small blob out of the tip of the tube so it was just visible on the tip of the tube
4. I then used a tooth pick to scoop up a small blob of gel from the tip of the tube
5. I then dabbed a small droplet/blob of glue onto the foot of the dial marker that was sticking through the back of the dial with the tooth pick gel
   1. Being gel the glue stayed where I put it with little risk of running through to the front of the dial
   2. Being gel it has a slightly longer setting time, so you have time to play with it a little before its too late
6. After it dried I moved onto the next one
7. for good measure I also re-glued the markers which hadn't become free, just in case they were thinking about it

Hope this helps

[RichardHarris123]

You shouldn't use super glue, it can off gas and cloud up the crystal.  I leant that on here. 

[rehajm]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a dial lose the markers en masse like that. The conditions to bring that about must be interesting…

Well done as always Waggy!

14 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

You shouldn't use super glue, it can off gas and cloud up the crystal.  I leant that on here. 

…a good point but for a watch literally rescued from the bin I’ll allow it…

[Razz]

This quartz alarm chrono had a nasty crystal incorrectly installed, bent hands and was not running. Replaced with a NOS crystal and advice from the forum went with G-S hypo cement. The hour and or minute wheels were damaged and so sourced a new movement as well. There is some plating loss on the bracelet and on the case and alarm setting crown. The dial suffered a bit of damage as well. Overall though I like it. September 1994 7T32-G640. Other models have "quartz" on the dial but this one does not. Wore it on the golf course yesterday and the crystal stayed in place. Still need to clean the excess cement on the inside of thw crystal. 

Edited January 21 by Razz

[Waggy]

16 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

You shouldn't use super glue, it can off gas and cloud up the crystal.  I leant that on here. 

Thanks for the information, after reading your comments I thought I should get better informed on the subject. To summarise what I found:  it appears that the off gassing can only occur when the glue is active [3], or put another way the clouding/blooming/chlorosis can only occur up until the point the glue becomes inert, usually 24 hours [2] or exposed to moisture [1]. 

I think I did replace the repaired dial/crystal in less than 24 hours, so your concerns are well justified, I think in future I'll leave any superglued product out in the open air for >>24 hours just to be on the safe side and confident it is 100% cured and safe to re-install.

Thanks again for the warning, we live and learn , the sources of my research are below:

=====

 

Quotes the above is derived from:

" cyanoacrylates ...  immediately polymerize and become inert when exposed to moisture."[1]

 

"A quality super glue, such as Loctite Super Glue Liquid Professional (20g bottle), dries and sets in seconds. For full bond strength, the parts should be left undisturbed for at least 10 minutes. The glue will be fully cured in 24 hours." [2]

"What is cyanoacrylate frosting or blooming?

The technical term for cyanoacrylate frosting or blooming is chlorosis. It refers to when excess cyanoacrylate monomers vaporize or become airborne, reacting with moisture in the air. The monomers then cure into small particles that fall onto the area around the bond line. This is the white residue you often see on darker parts bonded with a cyanoacrylate.

What causes cyanoacrylate frosting or blooming?

This frosting or bloom residue is a by-product of an instant adhesive cure process and only occurs while the cyanoacrylate is curing. The worst cases of chlorosis happen when a part is packed into a container or plastic bag before the cyanoacrylate is fully cured or polymerized." [3]

References

[1] https://aronalpha.net/blog/common-misconceptions-about-cyanoacrylate-adhesives-and-what-you-may-not-know-about-them/

[2] https://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/know-how/fix-stuff/super-glue.html

[3] https://www.resinlab.com/resources/cyanoacrylate-frosting-or-blooming/

16 hours ago, rehajm said:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a dial lose the markers en masse like that. The conditions to bring that about must be interesting…

Me either, but I just pulled another out of my bag of horrors, and it is very similar. I am currently challenging myself so see just how bad a watch has to be before I can't restore it, maybe I met my match:

This watch would be especially good to restore as it is made on my year AND month of birth, so I am a little extra motivated to make it work.

Edited January 22 by Waggy
Grammar and typo(s)

[VWatchie]

7 hours ago, Waggy said:

maybe I met my match:

Nah, shouldn't take you more than an hour or so! 

[AndyHull]

I think that is what is described by the sellers of "Mumbia Specials" as "running nicely, recently serviced", at least if my experience of one or two HMTs is anything to go by.

[VWatchie]

5 hours ago, AndyHull said:

I think that is what is described by the sellers of "Mumbia Specials" as "running nicely, recently serviced", at least if my experience of one or two HMTs is anything to go by.

The equivalent of Russian watches from Ukraine. Always sold as "Serviced by Master Watchmaker". That is, dipped in a can of naphtha, blown off with a hair dryer, and then something looking like oil injected here and there.

[watchweasol]

Hi Waggy.  Send it to Nucejoe for a dose of the coke treatment, sit back and wait for the return. It does work but this one may be too much,  

[Neverenoughwatches]

16 hours ago, Waggy said:

Thanks for the information, after reading your comments I thought I should get better informed on the subject. To summarise what I found:  it appears that the off gassing can only occur when the glue is active [3], or put another way the clouding/blooming/chlorosis can only occur up until the point the glue becomes inert, usually 24 hours [2] or exposed to moisture [1]. 

I think I did replace the repaired dial/crystal in less than 24 hours, so your concerns are well justified, I think in future I'll leave any superglued product out in the open air for >>24 hours just to be on the safe side and confident it is 100% cured and safe to re-install.

Thanks again for the warning, we live and learn , the sources of my research are below:

=====

 

Quotes the above is derived from:

" cyanoacrylates ...  immediately polymerize and become inert when exposed to moisture."[1]

 

"A quality super glue, such as Loctite Super Glue Liquid Professional (20g bottle), dries and sets in seconds. For full bond strength, the parts should be left undisturbed for at least 10 minutes. The glue will be fully cured in 24 hours." [2]

"What is cyanoacrylate frosting or blooming?

The technical term for cyanoacrylate frosting or blooming is chlorosis. It refers to when excess cyanoacrylate monomers vaporize or become airborne, reacting with moisture in the air. The monomers then cure into small particles that fall onto the area around the bond line. This is the white residue you often see on darker parts bonded with a cyanoacrylate.

What causes cyanoacrylate frosting or blooming?

This frosting or bloom residue is a by-product of an instant adhesive cure process and only occurs while the cyanoacrylate is curing. The worst cases of chlorosis happen when a part is packed into a container or plastic bag before the cyanoacrylate is fully cured or polymerized." [3]

References

[1] https://aronalpha.net/blog/common-misconceptions-about-cyanoacrylate-adhesives-and-what-you-may-not-know-about-them/

[2] https://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/know-how/fix-stuff/super-glue.html

[3] https://www.resinlab.com/resources/cyanoacrylate-frosting-or-blooming/

Me either, but I just pulled another out of my bag of horrors, and it is very similar. I am currently challenging myself so see just how bad a watch has to be before I can't restore it, maybe I met my match:

This watch would be especially good to restore as it is made on my year AND month of birth, so I am a little extra motivated to make it work.

Yeah i would say just a tad more than surface rust there, just a tad.

9 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Nah, shouldn't take you more than an hour or so! 

To get the stem out

[Waggy]

7 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Send it to Nucejoe for a dose of the coke treatment

regular or coke zero? 

Managed to get it all apart (mostly). now lets see if anything is left after the evaporust works its magic...

Only parts so far that are beyond repair are the ratchet wheel and the second reduction wheel

[HectorLooi]

1 hour ago, Waggy said:

regular or coke zero? 

I think regular is still the best. Coke zero tastes ok but if you are not diabetic, go for regular. But seriously, I think regular has more phosphoric acid than zero. You can taste the "bite" on the tongue, which you don't get from zero.

But if you are looking for industrial strengh rust remover, I recommend HG Rust Remover. If you paint this stuff on blue steel, it will remove the blued layer in under 2 minutes. 

[Waggy]

49 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

I recommend HG Rust Remover.

Just had a look and the instructions say to dilute the 500ml with 2.5 lt (or 1:5 ratio), do you use it neat or dilute as per the instructions?

Edited January 23 by Waggy

[HectorLooi]

Dilute for soaking parts in, neat for painting on the surface. I use it neat for removing rust from fence posts, gates, etc. 

Even at 1:5 dilution, it's pretty aggressive. You can see a stream of bubbles rising from the part.

[rossjackson01]

Just back from the Ayr Antiques fair. Spent my January spends. £40. Two watches. Both running. 

Roamer Sport. Back marked 49 and numbered 9253. Winder. Cracked glass  +4s 212 deg   0.8ms  52 deg 18000

Seiko 7S26 0480 F, view thorough back. Time set for AM. Day still changing. +27s  177 deg   1.7ms   52 deg 21600.

Will service the Seiko.

Happy bunny.

 

Edited January 27 by rossjackson01

[watchweasol]

Hi. Nice picking Ross.

[rehajm]

good seiko- most of those I see are dirty...

[Waggy]

On 1/22/2024 at 4:15 PM, VWatchie said:

Nah, shouldn't take you more than an hour or so! 

Quick update, I have the dial back together and looking OK, not great just OK (pictures to follow). I also have the watch ticking....However, its a little like 'Triggers Broom', AKA Ship of Theseus, below are the parts that have been replaced:

1. Main plate - the dial feet retainer eccentric screws were rusted away and these are riveted in place so I wasn't sure if/how these could be replaced, also the mainspring hole was beyond repair due to a previous badly executed "hammer time" attempt - I suppose I could have bushed it, but I had a spare....
2. Ratchet wheel - badly corroded and about 1/3 of the teeth gone
3. Second reduction wheel - this disintegrated upon removal
4. Pawl levers, one leg snapped after rust removed
5. Bridge of wheels - the post for the rotor was corroded
6. Click spring - disintegrated/snapped after rust removed
7. Center wheel - Corrosion had made the bearing surface too rough so it would not spin freely in the jewel
8. Hour wheel - was rusted to the cannon pinion so ID was damaged
9. Cannon pinion - was rusted to the hour wheel so was damaged
10. Rotor - bearing race was corrosion damaged and thread was corroded away - easier to replace then repair
11. First reduction wheel - this had corrosion damage, but still serviceable, however the wheel was cracked
12. Crystal - was polishing ok, but slipped from my hands and broke on the floor 
13. Escape wheel - bent (not broken?!?!) pivot
14. Third wheel - broken pivot
15. Balance - balance staff pivot broken

Still need to re-assemble the dial side

Just thinking... it may have been quicker to list the things I did keep! 

But all good practice and fault finding.

***Forgot to mention, that the initial timegrapher readings after quick adjustment less than an hour after reassemble were:

• +5 seconds/day
• 180 degrees amplitude
• 0.1 ms beat error
• Nice straight parallel lines (after demag.)

Note: the amplitude is low but hopefully this will improve over the next 24/48 hours to the usual Seiko mid-low 200's

Edited January 29 by Waggy