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Good morning across the pond. Early Friday evening here in Tucson Arizona, USA. I have this Tissot Seastar 781-1 in fairly original condition. The dial has seen the worst of it but the patina is not entirely ugly.

An original ss case and bracelet, and crown. According to the photos date stamp I disassembled 10 weeks ago. Got side tracked and then finally had a couple of hours to reassemble 2 days ago. I ordered the correct acrylic but it did not have the Chrome ring so after the on wrist shots I removed and put the other one back on while I wait for a new one from cousins.

I did nothing to the mainspring or barrel, but did oil the pivots, jewels, etc. The amplitude can be improved and perhaps then regulated refined. But overall I am pretty satisfied. Looks and wears nice. Not sure the year but maybe the numbers on the interior of the caseback are a clue. '65 to '72 on the movement manufacture.

Pictures of the disassembly and a microscope are game changers for me personnally.

642168255_DSCN52422.thumb.JPG.86500b5ec61ccddd7d866f32ab8731e5.JPG2055825123_DSCN52432.thumb.JPG.66c1bab31442914dbab6eaa1b6b8ad3a.JPG1091746256_20230519_1807592.thumb.jpg.b054029931daa251424f1a1a004278f1.jpg1821168255_DSCN52442.thumb.JPG.0696f0a5246fbbd6aab377df1ee0a593.JPG2049693490_DSCN52452.thumb.JPG.9a2db00b7c92c50ebac2d349aa42fc12.JPG1257408503_DSCN51372.thumb.JPG.70c987391bf3673c2559e964a8547fbe.JPG695004323_DSCN51392.thumb.JPG.44c8ad856b276b78a335bd21c719ec2c.JPG1062673112_DSCN51402.thumb.JPG.e989ddd7df4e10d50a0a26423e32f4da.JPG1604570754_DSCN51452.thumb.JPG.fbbff1f553be8adecb2a4a87df470ed5.JPG1098328756_DSCN51462.thumb.JPG.268c7fd0f5e13724eb83de680cd10498.JPG

 

57 minutes ago, Razz said:

Good morning across the pond. Early Friday evening here in Tucson Arizona, USA. I have this Tissot Seastar 781-1 in fairly original condition. The dial has seen the worst of it but the patina is not entirely ugly.

An original ss case and bracelet, and crown. According to the photos date stamp I disassembled 10 weeks ago. Got side tracked and then finally had a couple of hours to reassemble 2 days ago. I ordered the correct acrylic but it did not have the Chrome ring so after the on wrist shots I removed and put the other one back on while I wait for a new one from cousins.

I did nothing to the mainspring or barrel, but did oil the pivots, jewels, etc. The amplitude can be improved and perhaps then regulated refined. But overall I am pretty satisfied. Looks and wears nice. Not sure the year but maybe the numbers on the interior of the caseback are a clue. '65 to '72 on the movement manufacture.

Pictures of the disassembly and a microscope are game changers for me personnally.

642168255_DSCN52422.thumb.JPG.86500b5ec61ccddd7d866f32ab8731e5.JPG2055825123_DSCN52432.thumb.JPG.66c1bab31442914dbab6eaa1b6b8ad3a.JPG1091746256_20230519_1807592.thumb.jpg.b054029931daa251424f1a1a004278f1.jpg1821168255_DSCN52442.thumb.JPG.0696f0a5246fbbd6aab377df1ee0a593.JPG2049693490_DSCN52452.thumb.JPG.9a2db00b7c92c50ebac2d349aa42fc12.JPG1257408503_DSCN51372.thumb.JPG.70c987391bf3673c2559e964a8547fbe.JPG695004323_DSCN51392.thumb.JPG.44c8ad856b276b78a335bd21c719ec2c.JPG1062673112_DSCN51402.thumb.JPG.e989ddd7df4e10d50a0a26423e32f4da.JPG1604570754_DSCN51452.thumb.JPG.fbbff1f553be8adecb2a4a87df470ed5.JPG1098328756_DSCN51462.thumb.JPG.268c7fd0f5e13724eb83de680cd10498.JPG

 

Looked up the number on the movement, looks to be late 1969 I think.

Edited by Razz
Typos fixed
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Good day everyone, I just completed a watch for my wife's uncle as a gift, its a Seiko 6309 which was in pretty poor condition and a non runner for obvious reasons. I had to replace the crystal and the ratchet wheel which was completely corroded (see pictures below) I also had to replace a screw and the cannon pinion. A quick lume on the hands and polish the case and it was good to go. Let me know what you think:

Before Front:

2023-05-21-13-08-42-290.thumb.jpg.88ea58de5def65abf35b67ecf8c30d18.jpg

Before Movement:

2023-05-21-13-09-31-196.thumb.jpg.b4e9cc482e89f8f6062831781eaec368.jpg

Corrosion damage to ratchet wheel and screw(s)

2023-05-21-13-24-53-221.thumb.jpg.04484aaa5c14d8115e21abf061650420.jpg

Here is the finished watch along with the time graph after 24 hours:

8717821d-e0cc-4c78-bd4e-2ba53f756d87.thumb.jpg.23d06f69408a0fcf4862b87fb1d41ff0.jpg

62a60b2a-c073-4178-b5fc-f0d5eeec1f8a.thumb.jpg.4a0855734cc1a723a62b890231d46dc2.jpg

 

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4 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Well done! 🙂👍 What did you do to the dial? It looks like new! I'm sure your wife's uncle will be super thrilled!

Thanks, I just use some cotton buds and water, fortunately most of the damage was loose dust/dirt and corrosion products, so more luck than skill 🙂, I finished up by using the Bergeon dial pen to get the chapters back to sparkling as well as the hands.

I used rust remover fluid on the hands followed by IPA and to my surprise they came up really well so I decided to keep them after re-luming them.

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This is my Vostok 2414 from the late 1980s. 

It was my first ever full (and successful) service. Photos in reverse chronological order.

 

The final product. I like how the dial colour has cracked in different levels of intensity as the shade of the paint changes.

20230523_141544_resized.thumb.jpg.ef1db0e39b013f8b616ce1ba7abc19d4.jpg

 

Full wind. Couldn't be happier. I'm a bit of an OCD person... note: lift angle is correctly set to 42°.

20230415_075055_1.thumb.jpg.be03beddbab0ba83c8628b436ca1b34c.jpg

Not sure if this is visible at all 😂. But maybe you can see the small black area between the pallet (exit) stone and escape wheel tooth. That's lubricant (9415). Took me a while to get close to the recommended 60-70% of contact area (maybe I went slightly above..). And it took me the same amount of time to film it with my basic phone+loupe+slowmo technique. 

VideoCapture_20230523-144420.jpg.e4df1d633fba01056ac38446a1f4f9c9.jpg

Oh boy, it took quite a number of attempts to get that drop of oil done well (being a first-timer). But I probably spent even more time with that bloody shock spring!!! Including 2-3 hours of searching on the floor...

20230309_225028_resized.thumb.jpg.fc706653e9733238ee72876aca69b0f9.jpg

When I received it, the watch wouldn't wind. Upon opening the barrel and removing the mainspring, I found that the bridle had broken off... I followed a cool trick I saw somewhere (can't find the source anymore) and used a lighter to heat the spring and then bend it backwards to create a bridle. To my astonishment, it works perfectly and I get the full power reserve.

20230309_150619.thumb.jpg.7ffbaa57352e85683cd52b3a3b2add88.jpg20230308_100123.thumb.jpg.4d98e279fe1ab04fd59a845161c61c02.jpg

Just some pics of the movement. 

20230305_215026.thumb.jpg.a6af37485c2e86543b6a8ae71ed654bc.jpg20230305_214713.thumb.jpg.6c21868978f092c4bf494d9b590200fa.jpg20230305_210958.thumb.jpg.2a02ef04097716165c865a3b996c9085.jpg

tech-doc-for-where-to-oil-on-ETA-2826-2.jpg

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1 hour ago, Knebo said:

But I probably spent even more time with that bloody shock spring!!! Including 2-3 hours of searching on the floor...

You might have been better off searching *my* floor. I'm pretty certain there is more than one hiding there somewhere. 😋
Neat trick with the lighter and the mainspring. I may try that sometime when I can't find a suitable replacement.

Edited by AndyHull
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8 hours ago, Knebo said:

This is my Vostok 2414 from the late 1980s. 

It was my first ever full (and successful) service.

Congrats! Very, very well done!

The amplitude is unusually high, but not to the point it's a problem (quite the contrary). I've only seen one other Vostok 24xx having over 300 degrees of amplitude, and I've seen a few (slight understatement 😉)

What impresses me, even more, is the almost perfectly straight line on your TM. I've never seen that on any Vostok 24xx that I serviced. What I'm used to is a graph that looks like an illustration of a roller coaster track.

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2 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Congrats! Very, very well done!

The amplitude is unusually high, but not to the point it's a problem (quite the contrary). I've only seen one other Vostok 24xx having over 300 degrees of amplitude, and I've seen a few (slight understatement 😉)

What impresses me, even more, is the almost perfectly straight line on your TM. I've never seen that on any Vostok 24xx that I serviced. What I'm used to is a graph that looks like an illustration of a roller coaster track.

Oh wow, thank you so much for your comment! It made my day month.

I will admit that I had two running 2414 movements and was able to pick and choose the best parts. But it was a tough journey. So the gratification of wearing it and seeing the TM is immense.

 

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5 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

I know the feeling, and I forgot to mention that I think it is a very nice-looking watch.

Thanks again! 

I like it too! I sometimes call it my Royal Oakski or Nautilov 😛because of its Gerald Genta "inspired" octogonal case and very Nautilus-like hands/hour markers. 

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10 hours ago, VWatchie said:

What I'm used to is a graph that looks like an illustration of a roller coaster track.

Haha. You joke watchie, i know for sure you do better than this. Its good to see you posting more.

10 hours ago, VWatchie said:

Congrats! Very, very well done!

The amplitude is unusually high, but not to the point it's a problem (quite the contrary). I've only seen one other Vostok 24xx having over 300 degrees of amplitude, and I've seen a few (slight understatement 😉)

What impresses me, even more, is the almost perfectly straight line on your TM. I've never seen that on any Vostok 24xx that I serviced. What I'm used to is a graph that looks like an illustration of a roller coaster track.

John tells us ofen that high amplitude is overrated and obsessed over by some folk. I think of it like this, compare a super car running at high revs to a voltswagon golf tootling along, which car will break down first ?  Or an athlete giving 100% to their sport compared to joe bloggs going about his everyday so so life, which person will most likely be injured first and most often ? Both first examples are capable of high amplitude and in both cases the steady goer will last longer and wear out slower. I like to apply those analogies to high and medium amplitude.  Agreed that a high amplitude is the indication of strong power and performance but to what ends. So my question, is it a good idea to strive for every bit of extra amplitude possible to attain the movements maximum amplitude knowing that the components are working harder and may wear out sooner ? I understand that luck can step in, but i look at figures of 230 - 250 a couple of hours after full wind and sometimes 180 -200 after 24 hours and think yep thats fine its still keeping accurate time. I dont see the point of pushing a movement to its limits, maybe thats just me. 🙂    Just to add to this, when I've found that a watch has ended up with high amplitude, i make a note to stop short of fully winding it . As long as its making just over a day running time while being worn.

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
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4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

John tells us ofen that high amplitude is overrated and obsessed over by some folk. I think of it like this, compare a super car running at high revs to a voltswagon golf tootling along, which car will break down first ?  Or an athlete giving 100% to their sport compared to joe bloggs going about his everyday so so life, which person will most likely be injured first and most often ? Both first examples are capable of high amplitude and in both cases the steady goer will last longer and wear out slower. I like to apply those analogies to high and medium amplitude.  Agreed that a high amplitude is the indication of strong power and performance but to what ends. So my question, is it a good idea to strive for every bit of extra amplitude possible to attain the movements maximum amplitude knowing that the components are working harder and may wear out sooner ? I understand that luck can step in, but i look at figures of 230 - 250 a couple of hours after full wind and sometimes 180 -200 after 24 hours and think yep thats fine its still keeping accurate time. I dont see the point of pushing a movement to its limits, maybe thats just me. 🙂    Just to add to this, when I've found that a watch has ended up with high amplitude, i make a note to stop short of fully winding it . As long as its making just over a day running time while being worn.

Hahaha, oh dear, I'm getting myself involved in these kinds of debates --- as a new member and beginner watchmaker 🙈. I should also start posting my opinions on lubricants 🤣😂

 

For me, to stick to the analogy of cars, the equivalent of engine rev's (supercar vs Volkswagen) is beat rate. Take a Zenith El Primero with 36'000 bph ("high rev") that will wear faster and need more frequent servicing. Also, the fuel tank (mainspring) will run out faster (unless you size that up as well). The Volkswagen are those "low-rev" 18'000 bph movements (or 19'800 for my Vostok). Servicing will be less frequent and fuel/mainspring will last longer.

Amplitude, to me, is how "smooth"/effective/clean the engine is running. If you press down the accelerator pedal in your car (you wind the mainspring), and only half of the manufacturer-specified horse-power/torque arrives in the wheels (balance wheel), you would assume a problem. Probably friction somewhere. I see it the same for watches: if the amplitude is lower than expected (with a fresh mainspring), there is more friction than there should/need be. And friction entails wear.

That all being said, I agree that we shouldn't OBSESS about amplitude. For sure not. The car can still drive fine; timekeeping can still be fine. 

But we should not be dismissive of it, either.

 

Where I'm 100% with you is that we should not looks so much at the fully-wound  and dial up (DU) amplitude. But rather at amplitude after 24h and in a vertical position. John always posts the Omega specs and that's all they care about. They want to know if amplitude is sufficient in the least favourable moment. There's no point in having 300+ amplitude at 0h/DU if it drops to 100 at 24h+vertical -- maybe less likely, but just to make a point. When I worked on my tiny tiny Omega ladies movements from the 50s and 70s, I'd go from 290° at 0h/DU to 190° at 24h/vertical (a loss of 100° !). And Omega spec asks for 170 at 24h/vertical. Do the math and you'd hope for at least 170+100=270 at full wind/DU. Conversely, now imagine you "only" get 240° at full wind/DU -- you'd end up with 140° after 24h/vertical. I'm sure timekeeping will be affected. In fact, even when going from 290° 0h/DU to 190° 24h/vertical, my delta between positions doubles -- that is timekeeping.

NOTE: above, I refer to tiny movements that only have a total power reserve of 30h, so at 24h they are running quite low on power. You won't have that issue much less with higher power reserves.

 

OK, now that I've put myself out there, I'll go into hiding 🙈🙉🙊

Edited by Knebo
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1 hour ago, Knebo said:

Hahaha, oh dear, I'm getting myself involved in these kinds of debates --- as a new member and beginner watchmaker 🙈. I should also start posting my opinions on lubricants 🤣😂

 

For me, to stick to the analogy of cars, the equivalent of engine rev's (supercar vs Volkswagen) is beat rate. Take a Zenith El Primero with 36'000 bph ("high rev") that will wear faster and need more frequent servicing. Also, the fuel tank (mainspring) will run out faster (unless you size that up as well). The Volkswagen are those "low-rev" 18'000 bph movements (or 19'800 for my Vostok). Servicing will be less frequent and fuel/mainspring will last longer.

Amplitude, to me, is how "smooth"/effective/clean the engine is running. If you press down the accelerator pedal in your car (you wind the mainspring), and only half of the manufacturer-specified horse-power/torque arrives in the wheels (balance wheel), you would assume a problem. Probably friction somewhere. I see it the same for watches: if the amplitude is lower than expected (with a fresh mainspring), there is more friction than there should/need be. And friction entails wear.

That all being said, I agree that we shouldn't OBSESS about amplitude. For sure not. The car can still drive fine; timekeeping can still be fine. 

But we should not be dismissive of it, either.

 

Where I'm 100% with you is that we should not looks so much at the fully-wound  and dial up (DU) amplitude. But rather at amplitude after 24h and in a vertical position. John always posts the Omega specs and that's all they care about. They want to know if amplitude is sufficient in the least favourable moment. There's no point in having 300+ amplitude at 0h/DU if it drops to 100 at 24h+vertical -- maybe less likely, but just to make a point. When I worked on my tiny tiny Omega ladies movements from the 50s and 70s, I'd go from 290° at 0h/DU to 190° at 24h/vertical (a loss of 100° !). And Omega spec asks for 170 at 24h/vertical. Do the math and you'd hope for at least 170+100=270 at full wind/DU. Conversely, now imagine you "only" get 240° at full wind/DU -- you'd end up with 140° after 24h/vertical. I'm sure timekeeping will be affected. In fact, even when going from 290° 0h/DU to 190° 24h/vertical, my delta between positions doubles -- that is timekeeping.

NOTE: above, I refer to tiny movements that only have a total power reserve of 30h, so at 24h they are running quite low on power. You won't have that issue much less with higher power reserves.

 

OK, now that I've put myself out there, I'll go into hiding 🙈🙉🙊

You raise some good points bph is huge factor in the amount of wear that takes place. And absolutely higher amplitude is a great indication of health but that would also mean highter torque pushing on the barrel assembly, gear train and escapement wouldn’t it. The balance components are also traveling further.

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19 hours ago, VWatchie said:

What impresses me, even more, is the almost perfectly straight line on your TM. I've never seen that on any Vostok 24xx that I serviced. What I'm used to is a graph that looks like an illustration of a roller coaster track.

yes isn't it nice when you see a straight line on the timing machine versus lines that wander around a little bit. it'd be interesting to know the life of each of the watches like maybe this one never ran at all and is in really good condition or basically new condition. Plus the factory was there any variations on the output quality from the factory? Or even was or any quality control where maybe this one wasn't as nice as some other one and maybe we should fix it make it better before it leaves or who cares.

5 hours ago, Knebo said:

36'000 bph ("high rev") that will wear faster and need more frequent servicing

running at 36,000 versus 18,000 is a different problem or benefit then amplitude. If you look at the discussion groups for watches running at 36,000 the problem is your watches running twice as fast as a normal watch at least at the time now of course we have 28,000 watches are quite common. The problem becomes things like the escapement there a lot of concerns about the lubrication there. Plus if you're running twice as fast you end up having to change the mainspring because you're going use up your mainspring per hour and half the time so there's an issue with that there is additional mechanical issues that come into play not sure that the entire watch will disintegrate because only the balance wheels going superfast. But the concern always was with the escapement.

Although there are some amusing reasons why 36,000 or faster is a good frequency but that would open up another theoretical can of worms that I don't want to deal with. In a case I saw a reference once on a watch patents over higher frequencies and they hairspring can have a good vintages and it even comes with a really nifty complicated formula to explain that.

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Here is my watch of today, It was a non-runner and I started about 7:30 am this morning and just finished around 4:00 pm my time. New crystal and strap, and re-lumed the hands, quite proud of this one a definite keeper!

Before Front:

077bf7ed-3636-4bd0-abe0-55902539d90a.thumb.jpg.8e4c69412b875e3da72ce45bd2c13f83.jpg

And the movement, all in reasonable condition but LOTS of arm cheese on the case and sticky oils/grease inside:

b1907f72-bf37-4063-8faf-8691d143f7d2.thumb.jpg.8692f2f729620a6f9721ea424e85aadc.jpg

And the finished result (complete with fingerprints):

315ed76a-5f19-4a7b-95a4-e223f3ba0e60.thumb.jpg.1df690443592b8234fa500e529449975.jpg

Edited by Waggy
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On 5/24/2023 at 9:42 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha. You joke watchie, i know for sure you do better than this.

Well, I didn't write that to please @Knebo. I wrote it because it is true. Each and every Vostok cal 24xx that I've serviced and measured has had a roller coaster-like graph. Sometimes more, and sometimes less. I've never seen a Vostok cal. 24xx with such a perfectly straight line on the TM. It could be me - although I hate to think it, and god knows I'm always putting my heart and soul into my work, sometimes perhaps too much - but it could also be that our comrades at the Chistopol watch factory  🇷🇺  had an unusually good day when they manufactured @Knebo's watch. Who knows!? 🤔

I should mention that this phenomenon is less common after I've serviced Swiss and Japanese movements. If not, I would have given up, I think.

Edited by VWatchie
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6 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

but it could also be that our comrades at the Chistopol watch factory  🇷🇺  had an unusually good day when they manufactured @Knebo's watch. Who knows!? 🤔

👍unlike the Friday afternoon cars that are forever troublesome. The last few rushed off the production line to get an early finish for the weekend lol

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6 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

I wrote it because it is true. Each and every Vostok cal 24xx that I've serviced and measured has had a roller coaster-like graph.

usually things like that are power fluctuations through the gear train all the way back to the mainspring barrel. This is where it's nice to have a different timing machine where you ride time plot see if he could figure out which wheel is the problem if it's just one or everything.

On 5/23/2023 at 4:45 PM, Knebo said:

I had two running 2414 movements and was able to pick and choose the best parts.

picking and choosing the best parts? the parts you rejected what were wrong with those?  in other words I'm curious about quality control issues from the factory.

then here's a link to somebody who showed servicing the watch and their timing results. Did a nice job of showing all the results I would've liked of seeing the graphical display though. Then it would've been nice to see it 24 hours later as to whether this watch is even running. But it does confirm that there probably quality control issues. Or perhaps there's the lack of quality control as long as the hands seem to rotate it leaves the factory

https://17jewels.info/movements/w/wostok/wostok-2414a/

 

 

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1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

Or perhaps there's the lack of quality control as long as the hands seem to rotate it leaves the factory

The Swiss lever escapement is a surprisingly robust construction. Even with the ghastly results seen in the link you provided, I'd bet it is still a (somewhat) decent timekeeper. Well, decent enough that it would be useful to a wearer who winds it consistently once per day and doesn't mind setting the time once a week, or so.

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1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

The Swiss lever escapement is a surprisingly robust construction. Even with the ghastly results seen in the link you provided, I'd bet it is still a (somewhat) decent timekeeper. Well, decent enough that it would be useful to a wearer who winds it consistently once per day and doesn't mind setting the time once a week, or so.

what's interesting is if you look at a watch like the expensive witschi machine you look at the time plot. You see the amplitude going up and down because the wheels are meshing ride 82 or something is worn out or was never made right in the first place because he didn't have a timing machine to impress hundred years ago. Then every time you run a timing cycle the numbers are a little different because of those problems. What becomes amusing is usually the problems on average out usually the watch would keep time if it's just running at the end of 24 hours another is the balance wheels has a decent oscillation whatever that is it can still keep decent time may not please the timing machine but they can still keep time.

 

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9 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

What becomes amusing is usually the problems on average out usually the watch would keep time if it's just running at the end of 24 hours another is the balance wheels has a decent oscillation whatever that is it can still keep decent time may not please the timing machine but they can still keep time.

This is so very insightful and true!

If humanity had had access to timing machines from day one, they might have gotten too depressed and given up and Western civilization would have been severely hampered. Fortunately, as you point out, this was not the case, but the movement's actual keeping of reasonable time was looked at, and that probably made the watchmakers much happier and more inspired to continue their work for improvement.

I've learned to never judge a watch before testing it properly in real life. Some of my best timekeepers wouldn't be able to make a single timing machine on the planet very happy. That said, a timing machine is of course an excellent tool in the process of trying to figure out what's going on if there's a problem.

Edited by VWatchie
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This is a Longines Cal 280 which I started a while ago which was a non-runner and turned into a bit of a marathon when I ran into issues with the mainspring, I took the barrel and mainspring apart to clean as normal, but couldn't get it back together, which is when I realised that unlike many watches the sealed unit warning on the barrel rely means sealed unit. After a false start with a bad spare part choice I ended up having to get a whole new movement.... but as it turns out this was a good (lucky) call as I also needed to replace the escape wheel (broken pivot) and to replace the cannon pinion. Dial was in great shape and the hands just needed the lume replacing. Before and after shots below 🙂

Before Front:

2023-04-16-17-09-41-103.thumb.jpg.e0459f2abca002cefc47165a1a0c1eaf.jpg

Before movement:

2023-04-16-17-14-29-059.thumb.jpg.f4ed78ca9058dae4db55d8a1761a1b53.jpg

Finished watch:

d554de24-e4a4-4382-b743-465ac024145e.thumb.jpg.b94af84d4a342931b372bf5394393d7a.jpg

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On 5/27/2023 at 9:32 PM, JohnR725 said:

picking and choosing the best parts? the parts you rejected what were wrong with those?  in other words I'm curious about quality control issues from the factory.

then here's a link to somebody who showed servicing the watch and their timing results. Did a nice job of showing all the results I would've liked of seeing the graphical display though. Then it would've been nice to see it 24 hours later as to whether this watch is even running. But it does confirm that there probably quality control issues. Or perhaps there's the lack of quality control as long as the hands seem to rotate it leaves the factory

I'm afraid, I cannot give any insights on quality control at factory level. Most of the time, both parts looked fine / the same. Any differences were rather cosmetic or due to after-factory damage/oxidation. Or my own screw-ups -- leaving still another part ready to use.

 

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    • As you are looking for a solution, keep in mind that you can order (or salvage from old crowns) male split stems with different length shoulders - the cylindrical section between the threads and the split coupling. The shortest are less than a millimeter, which gives you another variable to exploit since that would seem to be shorter than what you have in the picture. In their repair kit Benrus sold male split stems in Tap 8 or 10, with shoulders from 0.33-0.085 inches.
    • Nicely done. Looks good. Be cheaper than a bought one. More satisfying as well.
    • Yes well the 6497 spec sheet did mention epilam but I don’t have either the product or the bottle for it.   
    • Hello from Nashville TN!!! I’m new to the watch repair world, but I’m nerdy and loving it! I’m helping a friend out and repairing his old Benrus Square Rigger. Basically the crown was damaged (the internal pipe was bent badly…I tried to straighten it and it broke.) Anyways, I’ve learned a lot about this watch but I need some help  it’s a split stem system and I was able to source the correct stem. What I know so far. It’s a split stem, male side screws into the crown. 5mm crown. Tap 9. 2mm tube on the case. I bought a random lot of vintage crowns and was able to make one of them work. It’s the crown on the left side in the pic. The problem is, I need a gold one! I need to find a crown with a recessed “pipe.” The gold one on the right, that has a flush pipe will not work…regardless of how much you trim the stem. It’s has to be recessed like the steel one. I’m just not sure how to search for that!
    • Yes, it's a problem if you're not familiar with them as a 3rd tier brand with 90% of the cases being monoblock, especially if you get one of their chromed cases with faux joints like you ran across. The Benrus and Belforte watches (1st and 2nd tier) more often than not had some opening instructions stamped on the front loading case.  It is easier to tell when you get one of the Sovereign anodized aluminum one-piece cases, especially in Hot Wheels purple!
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