404 Club

[AndyHull]

Another 404 club lot from ebay. This time a Camy Watch Co. SA/Stroun Frères SA  (Ornema?) pin lever pocket watch.
This one is grandly titled as "Superior Railway Timekeeper" and "Specially Examined"

Sadly it is missing its balance, and crown, so perhaps I may re-purpose the case and hands, or maybe just clean it up and pop a crown and bow on it and use it for display.

I do have a small stash of old pocket watch balances and balance cocks, so there is a slim chance I have something that might work, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Sadly I don't think I'm any where near up to the task of fabricating one from scratch, although the original is relatively simply constructed.

Alternatively as these are a relatively common mechanism, I maybe I'll find a donor.

Edited February 27, 2022 by AndyHull

[LittleWatchShop]

3 hours ago, KarlvonKoln said:

So is it, like, their own version of Naugahyde?

 

I am sickened to think that the Nauga is virtually extinct now.  It happened without a whimper from the world.  Yeah, save the whale, the Snail Darter, but let the Naugas disappear from the planet. Oh well...

 

[AndyHull]

What is next on the endangered list, the haggis?

 

 

[spectre6000]

I have a rule as a consumer: If the words/letters "faux", "imitation", "alternative", "-ette", etc. appear anywhere in any form of the description of an item, it is not for me. Marketers are getting more clever with "vegan", but the bottom line is the same. 

That said, I've read about "mushroom leather" made from a fungal mat of some sort. Doesn't sound super appealing, but it reads like it might be a pretty decent material (mechanically speaking). I think there's only one outfit making it so far (probably an IP thing), and they're not making much. I think they're trying to position it as a premium product, which lacking any data to suggest it actually is mechanically superior, puts it in the "faux" category in my mind still.

[markr]

2 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I am sickened to think that the Nauga is virtually extinct now.  It happened without a whimper from the world.  Yeah, save the whale, the Snail Darter, but let the Naugas disappear from the planet. Oh well...

 

I miss Corinthian Leather.

[AndyHull]

11 hours ago, markr said:

I miss Corinthian Leather.

I had to look that up, turns out it is a USA luxury car leather thing, and not, as I feared when I hit the Google enter button, a "specialist club" in London's Soho.

[spectre6000]

I don't know that any Chrysler from the 80s really counts as a "luxury car"...

[AndyHull]

12 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

I don't know that any Chrysler from the 80s really counts as a "luxury car"...

I learned to drive in a Leyland Mini Metro (1980–83: 998 cc A-Series I4, 45 bhp (34 kW; 46 PS) at 5400 rpm and 53 lb·ft (73 Nm) at 3000 rpm) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_Metro

Pretty much *ANYTHING* is a luxury car compared with that. The closest thing it came to having Corrinthian Leather would be if you parked it in a field of cows.

[spectre6000]

I don't say that from a position of tooling around in luxury cars and looking down my nose at the plebes. 

A photo from my parking spot at a previous job. Hint, I've never owned an Aston. Also, this was before the prices on buses skyrocketed (or at least at the beginning of launch). The guy that usually parked on the other side had a Range Rover Sport Bourgeoisie edition (I don't know what it actually was, but it was the most expensive one available at the time and he wanted everyone to know it). The Commercial model buses only had door cards on the driver and passenger doors for an interior. Maybe across the front, but mine was missing that by the time I got it. I had a huge car club back then, and we used to love "classing down the joint" and parking with all the other German cars (mostly BMWs, with the occasional modern VW and Mercedes thrown in) at shows.

[AndyHull]

If you are an old VW fan, you might like this channel.

Lots of VW and other repairs, including "rustoring" Crusty1 (in the thumbnail).

Edited February 28, 2022 by AndyHull

[spectre6000]

Used to be. I founded what I'm told is now the largest single-make car club in Texas, with chapters in Florida and a few other states (I don't really keep up with things like I should). I'm about to sell the last of my parts stash to a guy once things calm down pandemic-wise. I've had several air cooled VWs. That bus was my favorite (one of my all time favorite cars, period). I sold it when we moved to Colorado. Another good VW was my '57 Karmann Ghia. In the US at least, if you do a google image search for "57 karmann ghia" my car has been at least on the first page of results for many years now. Was the first result for a long time.

[AndyHull]

Two more orphans for the 404 club. An "Alexander Cairns" Liverpool, fusee pocket watch movement, and a no name lever pocket watch.

Alexander Cairns appears to have been a quality instrument making enterprise, and produced or retailed some fine marine chronographs.

 

https://www.bukowskis.com/en/auctions/607/96-alexander-cairns-32-waterloo-road-liverpool-marine-chronometer

There is an "A Cairns, 12 Waterloo Road, Liverpool" Sextant in the Smithsonian which you can see here. 
https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_1059152

 

Its sad to see these fine pieces ripped from their cases and consigned to the junk pile on ebay. I paid 404 club prices for the pair.

When you think of the time and workmanship that went into the production of even the most humble of watches, and then see them discarded as scrap, it almost beggars belief. I guess scrap gold counts for more in this modern world than craftsmanship and labour.

Well, arguably,  ever was it thus in fact, however I guess it gives us the opportunity to pick up interesting stuff for pennies. Lets see if I can get them back in a serviceable condition.

EDIT: I just spotted this in a pdf auction listing from 2019.

"Alexander Cairns, Liverpool, a man s gold fusee pocket watch, 15 jewels, key wind and set gilt plate movement with lever escapement and cut bimetallic balance, in an 18 karat, yellow gold, reeded edge, engine turned hunting case with Chester hallmark and date letter for the year 1868, Roman numeral white enamel dial with large seconds bit, serial #9041, 50mm, 111.2g TW. $1200-$..."

So, if the previous vandal had kept the thing in one piece, it would probably have been worth a lot more than the scrap gold price.

Edited March 1, 2022 by AndyHull

[oldhippy]

Back in the 70's the price for scrap silver hit and all time high many people found silver and sold it just for the scrap price, that is why so many of these lovely movements are with out cases. Sorry to say I had to remove many movements from silver cases. I can also remember where I work because so many people came in on one day selling silver tea pots which were Victorian & Georgian we ran out of money which was kept in one of the safes, one of the staff had to go and get more money from the bank. I was a crazy time so many lovely objects gone or ruined. 

[AndyHull]

43 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Back in the 70's the price for scrap silver hit and all time high many people found silver and sold it just for the scrap price, that is why so many of these lovely movements are with out cases. Sorry to say I had to remove many movements from silver cases. I can also remember where I work because so many people came in on one day selling silver tea pots which were Victorian & Georgian we ran out of money which was kept in one of the safes, one of the staff had to go and get more money from the bank. I was a crazy time so many lovely objects gone or ruined. 

My dad used to do a bit of silver jewellery work (as a hobby) back then.  He also collected coins from time to time. I remember as kids back then,  going through piles of "silver" coins, the shillings, sixpences, two-bob bits and so forth with him, looking for the ones that contained actual silver.

The majority were copper-nickel, but the older stuff contained a certain percentage of silver, depending on how old they were. It was worth finding them for their scrap value, and for melting down to  make jewellery.

I'm pretty sure that defacing a coin of the realm in this way was probably justification for a one way ticket to the Tower of London, but I'm sure nobody will ever know. Its not as if i am ever going to confess to the crime on a public forum.... err... well... don't tell anybody...

I wonder what happened to his hallmarking stamp.

Edited March 1, 2022 by AndyHull

[AndyHull]

Maybe one day I might pluck up the courage to try to fabricate an acrylic case for one or two of these movements.

It does look possible, but there is quite a bit of skill and effort required.

If you take a look at this video around the 34:12 mark it shows a rather fine example.

https://youtu.be/ZNE1eVdJPUU?t=2052

Acrylic can be tricky to work with, as it is inclined to melt, crack, fracture, haze and glaze, or all of the above if you are not careful. On the plus side though, it is cheap and doesn't require any specialised cutting tools. 

A good source for free acrylic in the UK is (or at least used to be when I last was in need of acrylic a few years back) old number plates. Some scrap yards will give them to you if you ask nicely. They do tend to chop them in two to stop you from doing a James Bond number with them though.

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by AndyHull

[AndyHull]

Just for fun I looked up 12 Waterloo St. Liverpool, the one time home of "Alexander Cairns" Liverpool, who made the fusee movement above.

This is near the old dock area, which makes sense since Alexander Cairns also sold Sextants and other nautical instruments.

This is what the building looks like now. I wonder if that round window once had an orate clock in it.

The area is under "redevelopment" judging by the Google maps images, so there is a reasonable chance that this entire building may end up scrapped, just like the case of the watch.

Here is a link if you want to take a virtual look around.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Tea+And+Coffee+To+Go+Convenience+Store/@53.4128137,-2.9991399,3a,75y,93.43h,92.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTveRRjgdwDKQK3olz5V9JA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x487b26cb572ef161:0x9044fb9771ec7e42!2s12+Waterloo+Rd,+Liverpool+L3+7BB,+UK!3b1!8m2!3d53.4127387!4d-2.9990954!3m4!1s0x487b26cb56afe4cb:0xedaa683a4e1fa3d!8m2!3d53.4127435!4d-2.9989001

 

[KarlvonKoln]

I am also rather fond of the craftsmanship and artistry that went into these watches from long ago.  I'm always scouting about for antique  non-runners to rescue and work on.  There are "scrappers" in my area who will separate watch from case, add the case to their bag of scrap gold or silver to sell, and post the movement on Ebay "for parts" without doing much checking to see what kind of repair or service would get the watch running again.  It's all about doing the least work for the most profit. 

[spectre6000]

8 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Back in the 70's the price for scrap silver hit and all time high many people found silver and sold it just for the scrap price, that is why so many of these lovely movements are with out cases. Sorry to say I had to remove many movements from silver cases. I can also remember where I work because so many people came in on one day selling silver tea pots which were Victorian & Georgian we ran out of money which was kept in one of the safes, one of the staff had to go and get more money from the bank. I was a crazy time so many lovely objects gone or ruined. 

My degree is in Entrepreneurship, and I recall this in the B-school textbooks. Wealthy oil family in Dallas (where I grew up) named the Hunts. Two brothers set about trying to buy up all the silver they could get their hands on in a deliberate effort to drive up silver prices. The US government stepped in to stop them. Fast forward just a few years, and right out of college, my wife took a job with one of their nieces. Seems that episode is a bit of an embarrassment to the family. Still fabulously wealthy though. For her boss's whateverth birthday, they flew in Scott Baio ("Chachi" from Happy Days), with whom she had a crush on as a kid. 

7 hours ago, AndyHull said:

A good source for free acrylic in the UK is (or at least used to be when I last was in need of acrylic a few years back) old number plates. Some scrap yards will give them to you if you ask nicely. They do tend to chop them in two to stop you from doing a James Bond number with them though.

UK license plates are plastic?

Edited March 1, 2022 by spectre6000

[AndyHull]

17 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

UK license plates are plastic?

They weren't always that way, but in recent years all UK (and most European) registration plates are laminated acrylic. White and reflective at the front. Yellow (also reflective) at the rear.

Basically a thermal printed lettering on a reflective plastic backing, thermally glued/laminated on to a thicker acrylic front piece. You can peel off the backing with a hot air gun and with care you end up with a clear acrylic sheet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_United_Kingdom
 

Edited March 1, 2022 by AndyHull

[AndyHull]

Another merry little group of misfits and orphans for about two pound fifty each. 

Sadly the USSR Sekonda (Molnija?) appears to have had an unwelcome bath, and the 8 Days travel clock is somewhat devoid of hands.

The star of the show may be the pocket watch in the lower left of the first picture, and in the image above,  assuming the balance is not damaged. It does appear to have the regulator arm pointing the wrong direction though, so all may not be well.

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by AndyHull

[AndyHull]

The Eight day has me intrigued. There are a few similar examples online, all of which are from quality manufacturers including Tiffany.

"E.E. Bishop - Bournemouth" seems to have been a quality Jeweller, importing Rolex pocket watches amongst other things.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/11722/lot/142/

From the above Bonhams Auction link from 2005, we find this rather attractive gold Rolex pocket watch lot.

Quote

Rolex. A slim 9ct gold open faced pocket watch with two colour gold fine chain

Glasgow import mark for 1924
15-jewel adjusted movement, silvered dial with black arabic numerals and subsidiary seconds dial also signed E.E. Bishop, Bournemouth, hinged case with 9ct gold chain and t-bar. case, dial and movement signed 43mm.

There is also this silver gilt carriage clock with  the dial marked  ‘Examd by E.E. Bishop, 17 Arcade, Bournemouth.'

https://www.richardgardnerantiques.co.uk/shop/clocks-barometers/antique-silver-and-silver-gilt-carriage-clock/

 

Perhaps the most similar in terms of the dial layout and font style is an Omega, although dials were often very similar between different manufacturers as they were often outsourced.  I guess what all this means is that there is a reasonable chance this is actually going to have a quality movement in it. Perhaps Doxa, perhaps Omega. We will have to wait and see what shows up in the mail.

Edited March 3, 2022 by AndyHull

[spectre6000]

If the movement shows some top tier manufacturer, would the seller not have shown that in the listing? Alternatively, do you have reason to believe the case is difficult to open? What's your plan for hands?

[AndyHull]

38 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

1) If the movement shows some top tier manufacturer, would the seller not have shown that in the listing?
2) Alternatively, do you have reason to believe the case is difficult to open?
3) What's your plan for hands?

Good questions.

1) I have no idea if the seller bothered to check.
   The lot does have the look of something that someone found lying in a drawer.

The seller has a fairly random selection of other vintage items (some watches, cigar tubes, mantle clocks etc), so they may have picked this lot up at an estate sale, figured out they weren't Rolex, and none of them looked to be made of precious metal, none of them worked or looked complete,  so they just flogged the lot as a job lot.

2) Perhaps, but till it arrives I won't know.

3) Plan? What is this plan you speak of?

Actually I do have a few hands, but probably nothing that big. I may have to see what Cousins or ebay has to offer.

Edited March 3, 2022 by AndyHull

[AndyHull]

The pocket watch in the above batch also interesting, and I might add, filthy.

There are many similar mechanisms out there from many different makers, but this one has somewhat IWC (Schaffhausen) like characteristics.

Compare for example with the IWC 66 19'''H5

This of course does not mean it is an IWC. In fact it is not an exact match for any of the examples I can find on line, so possibly some other manufacturer produced something very similar.

It also has  "Advance -- Retard" scribed on the bridge, rather than the balance, suggesting that the pointer should be pointed towards the bridge rather than down the balance cock, which is obviously not the case currently.

All may become much clearer when I can get a better look at this when it arrives. There may be some makers mark on the dial side. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by AndyHull

[KarlvonKoln]

28 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

It also has  "Advance -- Retard" scribed on the bridge, rather than the balance, suggesting that the pointer should be pointed towards the bridge rather than down the balance cock, which is obviously not the case currently.
 

Is it possible this watch's original regulator was replaced? I've seen a case on a different watch where the regulator was replaced with one that would fit, but was not a perfect match to its predecessor.  I'm told it's sometimes done if the arm has broken off and the correct replacement cannot be found, or I've also seen it where a watch was converted to take an overcoil and they had to find a regulator where the pins were shorter and nearer to center.