404 Club

[AndyHull]

9 hours ago, Pedro said:

I would lend you a shovel but I see you already have one. Keep digging!

I'll let you know when the bottom of the hole starts to get too hot.

Edited August 4, 2021 by AndyHull

[Pedro]

14 hours ago, AndyHull said:

I'll let you know when the bottom of the hole starts to get too hot.

Cheers, it's more than the Omega forum did! Threw me off the site a couple of years ago after only two weeks! They are so sensitive regarding their beloved brand and cannot stand anyone who doesn't think the same. If anyone is a member give my regards to 'Padders' (a good guy with excellent posts) from 'Osmegahead'...(I'm a fan of Red Dwarf...and Omega's).

Edited August 5, 2021 by Pedro

[LittleWatchShop]

I got thrown off a cast iron facebook group just for a simple question.

[spectre6000]

I've never been kicked off a forum or out of a group, but I self-extricated from a leather working forum after an Australian guy attacked me for "fancy words and sentences"... I also go out of my way to avoid the WUS crowd. 

[AndyHull]

The latest 404 club member. 

A very new looking, but slightly broken "Sekonda Classique" branded skeletonized Chinese standard movement full hunter pocket watch.

Listed as not working, spares or repair, it cost 99p plus shipping.

The click spring was broken and the original movement holder is missing.

The donors I have, all had had various different arrangement of barrel bridge and click spring, and none matched, so I swapped the whole lot. Barrel with mainspring, barrel bridge and click.

The mechanisms are very easy to work on, and in general parts from one variant of the "Standard" movement have a good chance of fitting in another, but obviously not always.

It is now running nicely, and looks quite attractive, although the over all build quality is not spectacular.

[LittleWatchShop]

5 hours ago, spectre6000 said:

I've never been kicked off a forum or out of a group, but I self-extricated from a leather working forum after an Australian guy attacked me for "fancy words and sentences"... I also go out of my way to avoid the WUS crowd. 

Oh my...you should have hyphenated "leather-working" because it modifies "forum."  I will contact the administrator to see about having you kicked off!!

[spectre6000]

[Bearman]

I love playing the £4.04 game or as getting as near as possible. I didn't expect such a thing to be so controversial. It's certainly becoming more of a challenge especially on that well known auction site.

Anyway here's my latest haul no one else bid on a total of £3.96 each. More willing victims for me to practice on. 

 

[Pedro]

On 8/5/2021 at 4:01 PM, spectre6000 said:

I've never been kicked off a forum or out of a group, but I self-extricated from a leather working forum after an Australian guy attacked me for "fancy words and sentences"... I also go out of my way to avoid the WUS crowd. 

You should have responded with " there are no such things as fancy words or sentences, just the ignorance of the recipient". I'm sure they would have appreciated the feedback and took it as constructive criticism.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Pedro

[Pedro]

2 hours ago, Bearman said:

I love playing the £4.04 game or as getting as near as possible. I didn't expect such a thing to be so controversial. It's certainly becoming more of a challenge especially on that well known auction site.

Anyway here's my latest haul no one else bid on a total of £3.96 each. More willing victims for me to practice on. 

 

Controversial? I really don't know what you are referring to!. Nice haul and not an Omega in sight.

[AndyHull]

2 hours ago, Bearman said:

Anyway here's my latest haul no one else bid on a total of £3.96 each. More willing victims for me to practice on. 

Very nice. I have a similar Kienzle Automatic, which strangely enough also arrived without a stem and crown. I did find something to fit, in my big box of random stems, but as I recall it took me ages go through them all.

I'd be interested to know which Kienzle mechanism is in it, and also what is in the Regency. My guess for the latter is that it may be a Chinese standard movement, however anything stamped "Foreign" from the post war period, through to the 1970s, also has a high chance of being German. 

[AndyHull]

I'm going to revise my guess about the "Regency". I suspect it has a Citizen 0200, 0201, 0241, 0260 or 0270 movement in it similar to this.
 

If so, it should be relatively simple to service, and if you need any parts, then you can probably pick up an HMT 0231 or similar for pennies to fix it with as this is another licensed copy of the same movement.

Edited August 7, 2021 by AndyHull

[spectre6000]

Those HMTs come up ALL. THE. TIME. in the ol' 404 hunt. Never for pennies though. I don't think I've even been able to pick one up yet (my project watch drawer is blocked by myriad things that I hope to clean up today), but I've tried on a handful of occasions when an interesting dial pops up in decent condition. The Indians love their colors (I'm also a fan)! Didn't know it was a licensed Citizen movement. I figured it was French based on where movements tend to be made and non-specific imperialism (I'm sure there were French doings in India, but I have no idea where or to what extent).

[AndyHull]

With HMTs, the choices seem to be, nice dial, pocket money price, working. Typically you get to pick one of those three, maybe two, but never all three.

The French did indeed have some influence in India, as did the Portuguese, and of course the Imperial influence was mainly from the British.

Pretty much everyone has had some sort of influence in India over the last couple of thousand years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_India

Its a fascinating country to visit.

[spectre6000]

Hot diggity daffodil! I got another! All stainless 17J Clinton. $4.95 (less than £4.04 at the current exchange rate), with another $4.95 to get it here. Second for the year! Glad I've been bogged down with work stuff, or I'd have been pretty bored. I did the bulk of clearing my desk today, so I will hopefully be able to get back to watches very soon!

[LittleWatchShop]

46 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

work stuff

work has been getting in my way too!!

 

[Bearman]

Curiosity got the better of me and I popped the back off the Regency. It looks very similar to the Citizen and HMT. I think after a clean I'll be able to get this one running. There seems to be a sign of in the balance.

So is it a Citizen movement or one a version thereof produced under licence by someone else?

[Bearman]

The Keinzle is sadly missing a few bits, a bit like yours. Its a shame really as its got a really nice case back a bit like a bubble. I think it's one for another day,  may get lucky in the future I find another with the necessary parts. More 404 fun.

[AndyHull]

18 hours ago, Bearman said:

So is it a Citizen movement or one a version thereof produced under licence by someone else?

 

Yes, it certainly appears to be. The balance bridge and the parashock protection gives it away.

There are some variations in the barrel bridge and the main bridge (although the different variants I've encountered seem to be interchangeable), but the balance and the shock protection is the big clue that it is a Citizen, or a licensed copy of one.

Are there any numbers stamped on the main plate, in the area near the balance?

The Bolova - Citizen copies of the 0241 have 11DP  stamped there, and the HMTs typically have 1802 or 0231 on them. 

None the less these mechanisms are almost completely identical, with the only noticeable variations being in the finish, and the bridge shapes.

Some of the HMTs are actually finished to as high a standard as the Citizens, but some are slightly more basic. 

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by AndyHull

[AndyHull]

18 hours ago, Bearman said:

may get lucky in the future I find another with the necessary parts.

They do come up quite regularly. If the balance on yours is good, then you are half way there.
I think yours is a Kienzle 57/17a

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Kienzle_057_17a

... or perhaps a 58/21

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Kienzle_058_21

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by AndyHull

[AndyHull]

A brand new looking (apart from a few thumb prints, but they may be factory fitted) skeletonized Chinese standard movement "Sewor" branded strap monster arrived in this mornings post.

Why do they produce these enormous watches. The mechanism is perfectly capable of fitting in something much more elegant, and it presumably costs the same to cast a small and elegant case as it does to cast one of these bar bells.

Maybe its a fitness watch.  Lugging all that plated pot metal around is meant to keep you fit.

This was going to be a parts watch, but since the only thing wrong with it is the setting lever spring, and since I have one of those on one of my existing parts mechanisms, I think I'll fix it up and put it in the Chinese collection, along with Chairman Mao and the other many variants of the Standard movement. 

It comes on an unused  "genuine pigskin" band. Do they have cardboard pigs in China I wonder? I don't know, I've never been. I guess I'll need to do a few non destructive tests to determine if the pigs were real or not.

The more observant of you may have noticed that two of the screws in the case back are not real. This nearly caught me out. It is also possible to refit the case back upside down with the result that the strap is back to front. This *did* catch me out. However for a quid and a half, you can't really complain.
 

It runs surprisingly well, considering what it is. It is sitting at around -5 sec to -15 sec per day with a beat error of  around 0.4 to 0.8ms and a swing somewhere north of 280 degrees when newly wound.

Edited August 11, 2021 by AndyHull

[Bearman]

I've seen those pop up on that well known auction site band new for not much money. Did it come within budget for the 404 club?

I've always wondered how "Sewor" is pronounced........ It probably means something elegant and profound in Chinese, I'd love to know.

[AndyHull]

It fell well within the 404 club budget at a mere £1.50

They do pop up regularly, and since they are fairly inexpensive to start with, there is little interest in them when they are listed as "faulty" or "spares or repair" or similar, as this one was.

You can pick up an identical watch on Ali Express for around ten pounds.

The fault wasn't a broken setting lever spring, rather the setting lever mechanism had jumped off the spring, so I didn't actually need to replace anything.

I took the liberty of "deleting" the weird plastic shim that they put over the front of the mechanism.

I suspect they use this simply to make assembly easier, since if you omit this, the clutch mechanism will fall out of the front of the watch when you try to re-case it. With a little care, you can case it dial side up, and omit the plastic bit, and it looks a whole lot nicer in my opinion without this bit.

I also replaced the 18mm "genuine pigskin" strap with an Apollo of the correct size at 20mm, and the result is actually quite an attractive watch, all be it one that is somewhat over sized for my skinny wrists.

As to the meaning of "Sewor", I'm not sure. Maybe Google might be able to cast some light on this.

The skeletonized Chinese standard mechanism is used in a whole bunch of more expensive brands, so if you are looking for spare parts, or even just something to practice your skills on, or maybe you just fancy a skeleton movement because they are quite attractive in their own right, then they are worth grabbing from ebay. Just don't pay too much for them.

Edited August 11, 2021 by AndyHull

[spectre6000]

You'd think there'd be someone on staff at "Sewor" who might suggest the English speaking world [i]might[/i] not hear the name as intended... Sorta like "Sierra Mist" in the US market, but definitely not im Deutschland.

It took me a second to realize what the plastic spacer was. Makes sense from a cheap way to make a cheap thing look... more gaudy? It's really hard not to be critical of watches like this... 

Meanwhile, I just received my latest 404. It's a reasonably modern size, black dial in really good shape, all stainless, and fully jeweled... There's a stainless stretchy band that's the best I've ever seen (but probably still going to be replaced). Actually a pretty handsome watch! When I opened the box, I was nearly bowled over with that stank of cigarette smoke. The watch was in a plastic baggy, and there's a bunch of black dirt (the watch looked really grungy in the listing photos), so I didn't get into it for lack of the ability to clean up after it at the moment (on baby duty this evening). Hopefully I'll be able to get some good photos soon!

[jdm]

7 hours ago, spectre6000 said:

You'd think there'd be someone on staff at "Sewor" who might suggest the English speaking world [i]might[/i] not hear the name as intended...

While wondering about that, check their "famous brands". Inquiring minds want to know, what exactly of Swiss is in an Haiqin "since 1887"? Could have some relation with Quinghai being a Chinese surname? The hint is more direct with Sino-bi, and Sin-OK-e.

One brand name that also make me smile is Forsining. But i'll spare you the logo image and the other names which go with it.