Removing the balance...

[mwilkes]

Evening all

Just wondering how you folks generally remove the balance & cock from your movement!

In general, you see people simply lifting the cock out with the balance dangling from it.

In my (limited!) experience, more often than not I find this distorts the hairspring on everything except modern ETA movements

How do you lift yours? :-)

[jdrichard]

Evening all
Just wondering how you folks generally remove the balance & cock from your movement!
In general, you see people simply lifting the cock out with the balance dangling from it.
In my (limited!) experience, more often than not I find this distorts the hairspring on everything except modern ETA movements
How do you lift yours? :-)

I have seen Mark lift the balance and cock with tweezers, as I be unit.


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[meanoldmanning]

Evening all
Just wondering how you folks generally remove the balance & cock from your movement!
In general, you see people simply lifting the cock out with the balance dangling from it.
In my (limited!) experience, more often than not I find this distorts the hairspring on everything except modern ETA movements
How do you lift yours? :-)

Depends on the mov’t. If it looks like balance might get hung up as I lift the cock away I’ll gently hold both together. Otherwise I’ll, gently lift the cock away and let the balance dangle beneath. You dry a balance and hairspring by hanging the cock on a tack and letting the balance dangle without harm, so as long as nothing gets hung up upon removing the balance and cock this way I don’t see any harm.


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[Nucejoe]

I raise the cock just enough to take lower pivot out of the jewel hole and housing, let the pivot rest on mainplate, then disconnect the cock from mainplate, move the cock put it on top of  gears bridge, run one prong of tweezers inside the wheel , then hold the cock and balance in tweezers and lift. No dangling at all.

I make sure to carry out the whole operation at very low height above ground or bench. 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

 

 

[watchweasol]

Hi   I use the same method as Nucejoe and never had a problem over many years doing it. The essence is to take great care in freeing the lower pivot and roller assembly before lifting away from the movement.  Then lay the cock on its back with the balance on top and place under cover for protection.

[SparkyLB]

When I asked this question some time ago, I was given good advice; carefully free the cock from the mainplate, and lift the cock while tilting the movement to cause it to be on the same plane as the balance wheel.  Give the the movement the slightest of taps, only enough to free the balance wheel.  It has worked for me every time. 

[saswatch88]

letting balance dangle should not distort the spring, their is a reason why they have balance tacks

[jdm]

20 minutes ago, saswatch88 said:

letting balance dangle should not distort the spring, their is a reason why they have balance tacks

It should not but it could, plus it leave the most delicate part exposed to dust and external events, I have no knowledge of any good reason for an hairsping to not lie flat during its entire life. So it's sound and good advice that cock and balance are put spring up  in a small box or in the covered tray. 

[saswatch88]

18 minutes ago, jdm said:

It should not but it could, plus it leave the most delicate part exposed to dust and external events, I have no knowledge of any good reason for an hairsping to not lie flat during its entire life. So it's sound and good advice that cock and balance are put spring up  in a small box or in the covered tray. 

for extended periods of time yes it could but during a cleaning its perfectly fine. its good practice to keep all or any exposed watch parts under a lid while re assembling. i have a parts tray that comes with a lid and a small plastic shot glass i use to put over the balance tack.

[jdm]

2 minutes ago, saswatch88 said:

for extended periods of time yes it could but during a cleaning its perfectly fine.

I don't think it's fine for any amount of time, because incidents can happen at any time.

Also, what I do when I disassemble for cleaning is that parts go straight from the mov't to the mesh tray. And balance and tack go to a dedicated small glass container. That minimize the chances of dropping parts during and saves a bit of time also.

[saswatch88]

26 minutes ago, jdm said:

I don't think it's fine for any amount of time, because incidents can happen at any time.

Also, what I do when I disassemble for cleaning is that parts go straight from the mov't to the mesh tray. And balance and tack go to a dedicated small glass container. That minimize the chances of dropping parts during and saves a bit of time also.

i guess you never heard of vibrating hairsprings and adjusting beat error

[jdrichard]

On 4/14/2020 at 7:18 AM, DavidMasters said:

JD, I watch all your videos. You are a master craftsman and I appreciate your work.

Thank you very much...i will keep them coming to entertain the watchmakers during these hard times

[DavidMasters]

Of all the issues I have never mastered in watchmaking, dealing with the Balance is the worse. I hate to see a dangling hairspring—just seems wrong to me. But, as I stated above, I've never mastered working on or handling a balance wheel/cock assembly. Good to see the experts relate how they handle this process.

[jdrichard]

21 minutes ago, DavidMasters said:

Of all the issues I have never mastered in watchmaking, dealing with the Balance is the worse. I hate to see a dangling hairspring—just seems wrong to me. But, as I stated above, I've never mastered working on or handling a balance wheel/cock assembly. Good to see the experts relate how they handle this process.

The biggest fear is dropping the balance cock and balance while removing it from the watch and distorting the hairspring.  I lift the balance cock and do dangle the hairspring as i am more nervous grabbing the two together to remove.  I do keep all things low, so if i do accidentally drop the balance, chances are it will survive and the hairspring will be in tact.

[JGrainger]

To be honest, I use a few methods but still read the other answers to see what is currently popular.. I always take a moment to think about which way is likely to be the best for the watch at hand.

Back when I was starting out there was one hairspring which got warped when lifting the balance while hanging from the bridge (after the first which was destroyed on my first parts movement), and it put me off doing that in future. For a long time I got to grips with lifting the balance and bridge as one with the tweezers providing support rather than any real grip. It wasn't until a few years ago that I got the courage back (partly while going through some repetitive practice disassembling and reassembling a movement, getting bored) after watching someone lifting the balance out with it hanging by the hairspring, that I started to re-try and use that method. On the newer watches it can often work, particularly as these generally have light weight balance wheels.

Sometimes I have unfastened the hairspring stud in place, then lifted the balance bridge away first, and I've occasionally used (with tweezers in both hands) the method of supporting the balance from underneath rather than gripping - while holding and lifting the bridge with the 2nd set of tweezers.. I used to be particularly dexterous.

Realistically, the best thing is to try a few methods and see what works the best for you.

 

[SparkyLB]

My original response to this question was before I took Mark's courses and observed his method.  It's simple, doesn't take any particular dexterity acrobatics, and if followed, seems it would be very difficult to ruin, disfigure or break anything. 

1.  loosen and remove balance cock screw, set aside in tray.

2.  gently prize the cock from its position, rotate only the cock about 20° clockwise.

3.  put one tweezer tip below the balance wheel, and the other above the cock, getting a hold of it in such a way that the top pivot stays in the balance cock's jewel.

4.  the most difficult part, removing cock and balance wheel as one complete unit, with the top pivot seated in its jewel takes a bit of practice, but is by no means extraordinarily difficult.  make certain nothing inside the tweezers touches the centerwheel or bridge.   

5.  flip the entire unit over, and set it down in the tray (I put it in the same compartment as the cock's screw).  Give the tray a bit of a twist to confirm the wheel is in its jewel hole.  Cover and store.   

Edited September 27, 2020 by SparkyLB

[HectorLooi]

If you watch Mark's video carefully, he lifted both the upper and lower pivots out of the jewel holes before he gripped the balance and cock as one unit.

If the upper pivot is still in the upper jewel, the pivot could get damaged when using this technique. 

[Nucejoe]

2 hours ago, SparkyLB said:

My original response to this question was before I took Mark's courses and observed his method.  It's simple, doesn't take any particular dexterity acrobatics, and if followed, seems it would be very difficult to ruin, disfigure or break anything. 

1.  loosen and remove balance cock screw, set aside in tray.

2.  gently prize the cock from its position, rotate only the cock about 20° clockwise.

3.  put one tweezer tip below the balance wheel, and the other above the cock, getting a hold of it in such a way that the top pivot stays in the balance cock's jewel.

4.  the most difficult part, removing cock and balance wheel as one complete unit, with the top pivot seated in its jewel takes a bit of practice, but is by no means extraordinarily difficult.  make certain nothing inside the tweezers touches the centerwheel or bridge.   

5.  flip the entire unit over, and set it down in the tray (I put it in the same compartment as the cock's screw).  Give the tray a bit of a twist to confirm the wheel is in its jewel hole.  Cover and store.   

Isn't keeping pivot seated in jewel hole risky?  The pivot is safer if free to move and that is when its out of the jewel hole.

A dexterious stunt I saw my late watchmaker show off, he raise the bridge about a cm while holding the movement and snapped two fingers of the same hand balance jumped out dangling from the bridge.

The biggest advantage of dangling balance is both pivots being out of jewel holes. You can keep this advantage and avoid dangling balance.

joe

[oldhippy]

I always would lift the complete balance and cock out and then turn the complete lot over and carefully make sure the balance was put out of the way covered and ready for when I needed it to work on.  

[SparkyLB]

Nucejoe, you make a good point.  Agreed.  Given the slender dimensions of the pivot on the balance wheel; perhaps it is wiser to keep the pivot and hole divorced during the transfer.  As mentioned, during storage, it is inverted (cock down) and the pivot in its hole.  Thank you.  I'm still learning.