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As a cheap tool to help with shellacking, I bolted a handle to an old pocket watch mainplate. Held over a spirit lamp it heats slowly, so you can see when the shellac melts. I use the holes in the plate to sit a pallet or roller.

It's impossible to be sure, but lack of lubrication would eventually lead to this, and any other factor like debris would probably accelerate the process. How did you fix the problem?

Yes, this is common for old AS movenents. The screws, actually, are the same, and can be replaced by each other. They used only one machine to make the screws, that's for economy. I can't imagine that the click will work in reverse, that is silly thought. Unless it is on the crown wheel, not on the ratchet wheel.

OK, hardening is easier and with more probable good result to do in water, then tempering as i said above. Then You should sharpen and burnish the pivots again, to grind the surface layer where carbon has burned durring the hardening. That's why, it is easier just to sharpen the existing staff - it is from proper material and so on... 2-3 sharpenings are possible before the staff will get to short and free play will not be able to regulate to normal.

As Nickelsilver says, AS do tend to use LH thread on both crown and ratchet wheels. I make a note on the pics I make during disassembly, for future reference. This is a AS984

Be careful. I have just checked on two AS 1002's and in both cases the ratchet wheel arbor screw is LH threaded.

You probably haven't given enough time for the oil to penetrate. Try this. Remove the balance cock assembly. Remove balance the jewel on mainplate side. Remove the fork. Drop the rest in Coca Cola for a 48 hrs soak. Good luck

What you have failed to say this applies to both the U S S R & U S A is it was manly German scientist from the second world war that had the skills. I will let you have a few comments then can we get back on track please members.

Soviets: First satellite; Sputnik First dog in Space: Laika First man in space: Yuri Gagarin First Space-walk: Alexei Leonov First woman in Space: Valentina Tereshkova First moon rover: Lunokhod 1 The spacecraft "Buran" flew completely remote controlled and had a much higher pay-load capacity than its US counterpart. Despite all the Western propaganda & chest banging, the Soviets were doing better

The watch has, as people mentioned before, a Vostok 2414 movement. If it has never been serviced, it for sure needs one. If needed, the world is awash with cheap 2414 parts & whole 2414 movements. Even though it is said, but not all the parts are interchangeable. The watch you are having is from the transition period (just after the collapse of the Soviet Union, but before "Russia") and the movement, with a gold-colored balance wheel and gold-colored anti-shock spring, is from the Soviet period. The lift-angle of these movements is 42 degrees.

It needs to be straight and in perfect condition, if shellac is holding it there is no reason why a little heat wont do the trick.

I bought a Breitling on eBay, which was made in SwitchInternet. But I never received it and the seller gave me a full refund.

Hello, I am Martin from Prague, Czech Republic. I have been collecting vintage wristwatches for almost 25 years, now respectfully and step-by-step trying to take a glimpse of the watchmaking world and learn some basic skills. I have been using English language information sources for most of my way, so it is probably no coincidence I ended up here...

Among all this serious discussion I would like to create a thread where we all can post the humerous and interesting disasters and crazy stuff that goes on when battling with old watches. Naturally nothing goes wrong with my work but here's a couple of starters that hit me this week. Even with the correct tools, mainspring work can get creative...And do you think the previous watch repair person had any trouble with the balance end shake -? Maybe a shaky hand problem or a frustrated engraver

I was amazed when I saw this. I thought it was going to be a cheap Chinese movement. (I friend once asked me to repair his Tissot skeleton movement. It was the most horrible cheap Chinese movement. I was shocked it was in a Tissot. It was impossible to take apart and repair. I gave up, and bought a new movement for about £25). But this is a true ETA movement. I can't see why they would do this in a movement with 23J ! It's only the C07.1XX which have this 'feature'. The C07.6XX and 8XX have regular escapements.

Hi Martin and welcome to the forum. Enjoy

I've also read that before, Bravingtons retailers were asked to sell them along with the no longer used ATP. One brand that eventually replaced them was Mellor's Cabot watch in thecesrly 70s. Just looked at the IWC, 3 different variants, maybe they are all genuine but only one is the original design. The pattern may have changed once or twice as the original stock ran out as damaged watches needed replacement dials. Just a later pattern ? maybe the watches lasted longer than expected so dial production had to be re-started now and then. The dials might have aslo been outsourced to different dial makers over the years as more dials were needed. A hundred from here one year and a hundred from there another year. I wonder how much degrade the lume has when its stored on a shelf in the dark unactivated ?

Welcome to the forum Martin.

Hi Martin- pictures are always appreciated here if you have some of your collection.

Thank you for your introduction and welcome to this friendly forum. We all look forward to your contributions and continued involvement.

The DDs where made and issued towards the end of the war, and the production numbers seem fairly strick and reasonably accurate though certain brand figures are approximated. Because of the war i would assume the orders were taken and received within a short space of time and not repeated with the war coming to an end within a year . Omega being Omega we would think are consistent with quality and accuracy so not much would change. These two dials look quite different the most obvious being the pregnant 4. But who knows what they did, the ATPs vary considerably from brand to brand, within the same brand some manufacturers made a few variations .

Hi Bob, I am pritty sure You don't know what it is... This is about 200 years old verge quarter repeater. And, in hands of a newbie (sorry for that), guess it has little chance. Is this a complete watch (with case and dial)? If so, it will be pretty expencive, especially if in working condition. Watches like this usually come to me to restore, as I am the one in my country that is able to do this. Usually they come with 2-3 broken pivots or which is worse - with missing wheels and other parts. So - if happens to break a pivot - please don't let the wheel get lost, but return it back to it's place, as it is much much easier to repivot the vheel than calculating and determining the sizes and parameters of the missing wheel. There are no spare parts for such watches, as everyone of them has been made individually. Now, don't try to assemble the movement before being sure that everything is OK with it and will be able to work. I mean, first leave tghe repeater parts aside and concentrate on the time part. The escapement itself has 3 inependent adjustments, and they has to be done and checked before assembling the movement. Then, only time part should be put in place and movement assembled without repeater part to check how the time part works, final fine adjustments to be done and reliability of the work confirmed for several days. Only then, the repeater train is to be put in place and repearer function adjusted and 'alived'. So, now I am waiting to see video of the working movement as a normal verge watch. Ask questions before doeing something that You are nor confident how it should be done!

the back looks rough tbh, this is my record with a recall for radium dial and hands decommission, replaced with nato stores equivalent. Any www back i have seen is or was polished, i would bet money the back is not original. The dial could be old stock but something is niggling me. It was niggling me just looked at half a dozen examples and the 12 numerals are too close together. Its posible that after over 25,000 produced there could be some discrepancy on the dial. There should be lots of engraving on the backside of the caseback ? I think there should also be a letter code on the case itself, on one of the lugs.

The luminous paint on the minute hand looks as if it has been applied by someone with an unsteady hand.

Here's one: why bother with the fake $h!t, when you can get the Real Poo right here - https://www.ebay.com/itm/364687541987?mkpid=0&emsid=e11021.m43.l1120&ch=osgood&euid=3cae395826ce4ba1bd75307b02bbba42&bu=45336855555&ut=RU&osub=-1~1&crd=20240119054242&segname=11021

1158 2468

Also check the associated jewel to ensure it is not cracked, or contaminated in some way and thus and acting like a cutting tool.

Lovely watch. I have a 267 - similar movement with sweep seconds. (Wish it wasn't radium dial!) If you know you can source a new part* (where from?), then I guess have a go flattening the rivet. As you say, it's going to be tricky supporting it. *I know parts are hard to find for these movements. I managed to trash the hairspring on mine whilst adjusting the overcoil. I waited a long time before I found a replacement.

Thank you for your input. I appreciate that

@manjo You may find my service walkthrough of the Vostok 2409 useful. The 2409 is identical to the 2414 but lacks the date complication. However, in the same thread, I've added a post that shows how to assemble the date complication as well. Good luck!

Yes, the war drums are loud and clear. Military US cargo planes are now landing in the north of Sweden daily (not officially reported, but I have other reliable sources) and my soon-to-be 18-year-old daughter has been drafted. Luckily, she is in Japan and if need be I'll try to send her to our relatives in the Philippines once her visa expires.

Was that a landing or a crash? The truth will be out when the Chinese land their probe on the moon. Maybe that's why the Americans are trying to start a war with them.

I have had many come to me that have had those little dig marks, as you say watchmakers as we call them did that a lot. As to the Russian rubbish to me it just showed how poor the movements were. How the hell did they send rockets to the moon.

I was told long ago that a watch could still be a fake, even with all the right trademarks from Geneva Switzerland. But when it says "Gelena Shitinerand" I think we can look no further.

Thanks so much! I've been getting an error message when trying to reach Ranfft database (my usual go-to). It looks like the URL changed?

Just finished up this piece of 1970's funk from Bulova. The pivot on the 3rd wheel was mushroomed, would not lubricating the pivot cause that or would it be that in conjunction with some other issue?

Main spring Winder sets are interesting in that one set isn't necessarily the answer to everything. There are some variations like if you would use it on older steel spring the arbor has to have a different hook then for modern spring. But some of the modern Springs don't fit the modern handles and then sometimes the older arbors are better. Then you're working on Seiko for instance you might need a left-handed handle. So mainspring Winder sets the one on the left-hand side I don't like it at all but you will find them on eBay. The middle set probably 99% of all pocket watch mainsprings that's the set that I use. Then the set on the right-hand side that you can't afford. Unless you just made a lucky purchase like I did a very long time ago. It also has some minor issues like you said different handles for the older versus new springs and he almost gets stuck on vintage with both sets because sometimes one won't work. If you do American pocket watches look for set like the one in the middle or something equivalent.

Thank you very much for your help, task completed

If you look closely at spring bar types and the holes in the lugs of watch cases, you will come to realize that you need the right type of spring bar for the type of hole. For blind end holes, like that of your Seiko, a double flanged spring bar is needed. Don't ever use a single shoulder or double shoulder type because once the pins go into the holes, it very difficult or in the case of the single shoulder type, impossible to get it out. Single shoulder types are meant for the adjustable section of bracelets, where the pins protrude out from the holes and can be pushed in to release it. Double shoulder types are for watch lugs with through-and-through holes, where again, a tool can be inserted to push the pin out. It could be possible that a novice watchmaker disassembled the bracelet for cleaning and mixed up the spring bars during assembly. If you come across a single shoulder spring bar used in blind hole lugs, the only way to remove it is to cut it. I have come across a few and I used my dental highspeed drill with a tungsten carbide bur to cut it. But now that I've retired, that would be a difficult task. Looks like I've to setup my compressor and highspeed drills in my workshop just in case.

Confirmed that it was the tip of the seconds hand rubbing the glass. With crystal and bezel removed It's not missed a tick since 6pm yesterday including the day and date changing over. I must have done a good job of the cleaning and lubricating for it to be able to run 99% of the time as it was rubbing the glass all the way round. I will sort the hands and then work on timing. Currently +0.5 SPD on wrist and very close to that at 15 degrees. I will need to move both oscillators together to both be a bit slower as the temp compensation seems pretty close. Wish me luck.

Have you checked the balance end shake? That shim looks too far out. You may not have enough end shake which is causing lack of amplitude.

Would that be fully wound ? Russian watches are renowned for sloppy tolerances. The barrel can suffer from wear inside and arbor seats. You haven't mentioned servicing as yet and the low amplitude might not be providing accurate readings. When you get to servicing, pay particular attention to the condition of the barrel components, wear around the plate and barrel bridge is common, look for scuffing of the plating where brass shows through. Strip it down in readiness for service and post up some clear detailed pictures .

make sure the hold down screw for battery has its insulator washer since the plate is <+>

Looks just like the 2414 I have. They run pretty well once cleaned and oiled. The movement looks in good condition, what's wrong with it? Do you have timegrapher plots? They usually have a shim under the balance cock. It looks like yours may be too far out, so check the balance end-shake.

because the circuitry is all more or less identical the crystals are basically almost all identical. Other than perhaps packaging. Except when we get to newer watches the quartz crystal is not going to be oscillating at the exact frequency we perceive it's going to be adjusted off a little bit I believe it's running fast. Because when you get a much newer quartz watches there's no trimmer capacitor and they use a logic regulation circuit. Simplistically they miss place a little bit of the frequency. Unfortunately that means you cannot adjust the trimmer frequency of the watch at all at one time you could reprogram that if you have the right witschi machine and if you knew which program the watch had. Notice the word if in other words the circuit didn't say which program they were using and that was basically just short-lived. The reality look quartz watch run so close to frequency it doesn't really need much regulation normally.

I did read somewhere that its not common for the quartz to become defective. I dont know how the tester i have actually tests crystals or if at all. i should really post a picture maybe someone can explain it. I have deliberately damaged them to see if there is a difference between working and non working, which there is. The 2 legs of the cylinder fit into 2 ports, most often that generates the same one second pulse, which doesn't make sense as the vibration frequency of crystals is 32 something thousand. Directly connecting the ports with wire does nothing , neither does a hammer battered cylinder, so there is something in the cylinder that is generating a signal. So i broke open a few cylinders only to find slivers of quartz crystal attached to a fork of steel, nothing interesting at all inside. My guess is the device has its own built in cmos and circuit to divide up the frequency provided by crystal into one second interval pulses. Not particularly expensive or clever equipment when you could make up your own from any cheap working movement bloc.

Most of the really interesting places that you used to see this sort of "toy" in, have sadly closed. There were a number of clock and watch repair enterprises who's windows I used to press my nose against when I was a child. Speaking of toys and toy shops, there were also a number of model and toy shops in the Glasgow of my youth. Arguably the most famous was the "Clyde model dockyard". Here is an example of the sort of "toy" that it used to sell. https://antiquetoyslibrary.com/toys/clyde-model-dockyard-engine-depot-side-wheel-river-boat-engine/ This was such an interesting enterprise, that it inspired many a budding young engineer to take up tinkering with all things mechanical and electrical. If you are in Glasgow, take a trip to the Transport Museum, (allow a full day, there is a huge amount to see). It was such a well know place, that they have a static exhibit of the Clyde Model Dockyard shop. While you are in Scotland, never mind Edinburgh castle and the "Royal Mile", everybody goes there, take a trip instead to the Museum of Childhood and the National Museum of Scotland. There are some great toys in the former, and some spectacular Victorian engineering models in the latter and, of course, my favourite clock (and a few others). https://www.nms.ac.uk/exhibitions-events/past-exhibitions/the-luxury-of-time/ Also worth a look is the "Camera Obscura". @luiazazrambo What are your plans for those new toys? What do they do, and are they complete and functional?

You seem to have access to much better toy shops than I do.

I was starting to think the same thing. I noticed that the click rotates in a different direction than all the other movmenets I've worked on. The head of the screw is the same as a RH screw, there is no marking of sorts to alert the mechanic as to the direction of thread. However I still can't budge the thing. Its like the screw and barrel arbor are one piece.

Yes- AS were particularly inclined to use left hand thead on both crown and ratchet wheel screws.