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I tend to take "recently serviced" or "good running order" or even "working" descriptions with a very large pinch of salt, unless the listing shows pictures of partial disassembly or a a timegrapher trace to support the claim. Having said that, the fact that this example has such obvious flaws means there is absolutely no chance it was looked at. The rusted clamp alone would prevent me from considering selling the thing. The seller is completely unprofessional and dishonest in my opinion. As to sending the thing back and getting a refund, I would be wary of doing that too, as given their dishonesty, there is a good chance they would simply claim that they never received it, even though they had, and would withhold the refund on that ground. Sadly there are plenty of dishonest sellers on ebay and else where.

I'd start by contacting the seller to see if I could get a reduction in the price since the item was clearly misrepresented / misdescribed, keeping the negative feedback option open.

I once took issue with the phrase "like new". It seems like, on Ebay and elsewhere, the phrase "like new" became so common in its misuse that hardly anyone bats an eye at it now. The cognoscenti do not take it seriously; they ignore it and weigh other evidence. I believe we should not let "just serviced" become yet another of these stock phrases that people expect to see and yet pay no attention to. Such sellers need to be called out. Service history is valuable information to us. We need to know these things. That knowledge often affects our decision to buy or not to buy. I think if a seller states "like new" then the object should perform like a new one, have no fewer flaws or defects than a new one, etc. Or the seller should refund, and the review should spell out the discrepancy. Same with "just serviced". The seller should list the day that watch was serviced and by whom. If they can't do so, then I personally would make an offer much lower and explain that I will offer more if they can tell me all about how and when the watch was serviced. Some things should not be just stock phrases that sellers use, but don't really mean. I'd like a return to truth in advertising. But then, I am perhaps too naive to be shopping on Ebay.

Back 20 years ago, I worked selling, repairing, and occasionally making guitars and basses. Luthiery (making/repairing stringed instruments) and watchmaking have the "behind the curtain" going for them to some degree, though it feels a little more pronounced on the luthiery side. Anyway, with guitars, we call the effect "mojo". A Fender Stratocaster is a pretty ho-hum guitar. Don't get me wrong, in proper fettle and in the right hands, a Strat earns its keep and is a singular thing. But if you're buying new (or used), you really don't get what you pay for. Or, said another way, there are many other routes to that same tone/feel for less money, or better for the same. You pay a fair amount for the mojo, and that is a significant demerit. Anything Rolex is dunked in mojo like a teenage boy in Axe Body Spray. With guitars, the mojo aspiration is in a creative direction, but with (some) watches, the aspirational direction is measured in dollars. Thereby, mojo pretty much directly translates to dollar signs to where the more paid the better. Overpaying is practically a plus. I understand it, but I don't get it. Rolex does absolutely nothing for me, and if I won one at the fair, unless it were just right stylistically (I'm not aware of many Rolexes that are), I'd immediately sell it. The mojo stank is just too strong.

This is the same kind of problem I have semi-regularly. I once was tasked with finding a genuine Tag Heuer Carrera case back (how the original got lost I was never told). I recorded the lowest prices I found for the "like new" ones that would fit the case, which were all over $100, some WELL over $100, and presented the estimates for the customer's approval. Well, the customer decided to buy a new Tag instead, saying it wasn't worth it for that price, to him anyway. Prices like those above mean that people like me cannot get parts, because such repairs often revolve solely around what the customer will be willing to pay, and how much they value their watch. If you're all about keeping quality watches running well and being used for decades, the struggle to get good parts is a major hindrance. Perhaps many online auction sellers believe they are asking a fair price for these parts, but for someone in my position, there are times it has the feel of price-gouging.

I know...you can buy them for a little over ten bucks. But, my lathe has been feeling unwanted...so... This little mini staking tool I have is a mystery. Not sure what it is used for, so today, I took a busted stake from one of the tool drawers and put it on the lathe and turned it down to make this DIY balance tack with it. I think I need to do some more turning on it, but here it is as of now.

Man, eBay is a wild place and there’s always risk. It can be really frustrating, but if you’re not happy, just get your money back, give bad feedback and get on the hunt again. I think it’s clear he doesn’t want to find a middle ground, but if you can get your money back, no big harm done (other than time of course).

Yes the amplitude of 170° and 130° when a fully wound up is not a good indication of proper servicing. Then you want to see something spectacular put the watch crown down and see how wonderful it looks. These are all things you want to get pictures of just in case when you're documenting the wonderful state of this watch.

Ukrainian seller? They always list their watches as "Serviced by Master Watchmaker". Of course, they NEVER are.

That's the click. Goes here: For the record these are pretty much a skeletonised clone of a Seiko 7002 or similar. Here's a 7002 with the click installed for comparison: You've got to strip back to take off the barrel bridge in order to install it.

I ran across this one yesterday.

I'd definitely leave negative feedback. What a goon that guy is.

Agree and agree that's it's probably a folly but interesting though.

Nothing abnormal about the balance complete. That escape wheel part I think is just for decoration. It adds a tiny bit of weight but that is all.

Hi try warming the screw with a soldering iron. Seen them glued in. Looks like the Seiko sure enough even the magic finger is the same. 7009. 7002. Etc. download the sheet from cousins document downloads. Parts/ tech

Hi Karl. Not naive just you have standards and expect others to have the same. EBay opens up a can of worms with mis information and downright bad practise and dishonesty and it buyer beware, with eBay there are many honest dealers who trade with care and have a reputation to up keep. Then there are others who are just after your cash and it’s a lottery as to what you get,they should be called out and rightly so. Unfortunately my experience with the arbitration service they offer is not good even when supplied with the evidence. CAVEAT EMPTOR. BUYER BEWARE.

Another German watch on its way. Adora - Gemeinschaftsmarke - Adolf Rapp - Pforzheim, Deutschland. Those late sixties or early seventies looking digits give it a bit of a space age vibe. This one is a bit of a gamble, as there are no pictures of the caliber, but that is reflected in the price. Not quite a 404 club candidate, but not far off. It may have a German caliber, or perhaps a France Ebauches one. Some Adora watches even have Swiss calibers.

Hey All. My name is Jason, and credit where credit is due - the reason I am here (WHO I BLAME, lol) is a guy named Marshall, on YouTube. I was skimming around on YouTube, saw hime working and was captivated. Watch many many of his videos, then found others - and here I am. I already have a first project I'm in the middle of - but I'll write about that in a bit. I work on old Jaguar's and a 928 Porsche. My Lady laughs at me for this transition. I already have some basic tools, a timegrapher (weishi 1000) and yes 6 watches that need work. More about those to come, I am sure. Anywho. It is great to be here. I am super grateful for the folks who come here and share their hard worked for wisdom, experience, know how, advise and suggestions. The forum world and all the folks who participate and give - I have no words. It's how I am able to think for one second that I can do this EXACTLY how it was when I started on the cars and motorcycles. I look forward to being here for years and I will head over now to post my first questions. Again, thank you all so so much Jason

And I will... Haha, I'm not feeling so confident. I have one wheel coming from Dave (thanks for the direction) and one that hopefully will come with a donor movement found on ebay for just 12bucks. I am pleased no matter what happens. I have a long way to go, on many many MANY levels. Day at a time! Thank you guys. I'll be back, no doubt...

Hi Typically the chrono's have three registers one for each discipline, so whilst the other two are working ok the third is struggling. As John said quartz watches still need a service. The mechanical assembly still needs to be clean and lubricated. The attached documents will enlighten you as to what is required. The movements are listed as discontinued on Cousins web site. there were three options regarding the date. date at 4 on two and date at 6 on the third. Searching for a donor may be an option unless new NOS can be forund. speedtimerkollection.com or welwynwatchparts.co.uk are retailers of second user bits and movements. cheers 24_ETA251.252,251.262,251.272 - part 1.pdf 1474_ETA251.252,251.262,251.272 Part 2.pdf

Yes but they're giving you a big discount you should be happy. Then how do you know it's not Rolex? The reason I ask is bestfit for instance Used to have Rolex parts for sale and other than the balance staffs they were actually Rolex parts purchased for Rolex. The same as at one time the Omega parts for all real Omega parts. I know somebody who is visiting bestfit and apparently in the morning there were packaging up Omega parts from a gun and an afternoon there packaging up their own parts. So it's conceivable that the crystal company at one time purchased crystals from Rolex when Rolex would sell things to the rest of the world. Although I do find the price rather amusing because I'm sure that price is considerably higher than what it once was listed as. Maybe they're tacking on a warehouse storage fee for keeping that crystal safe all of these years.

The amazing thing is that the vintage GS crystal is NOT genuine ROLEX as the seller is intimating.

You should look at some of the very early pocket watches and clocks. You will see engraved and saw piercing on parts that are not visible to the naked eye. You might ask why did they do such things when you can’t see them. The answer is because they could and they took pride in their work. Unlike to day with mass production and the I don’t give a f**k if it works or not as long as I get my money.

In case anyone comes across this and is wondering, I managed to get the crystal off safely by blowing it out with an air duster (after closing the case first).

The timegrapher was not bad for a watch that hadn't been serviced with about -30 seconds in dial up, 170 degrees amplitude and 0.4ms beat error, but in dial down the amplitude falls to 130 with similar rate and beat error. Of course, not acceptable for a serviced watch. I think that if I ask for a refund for the item not being as described, that may somehow give the seller a ding internally from ebay's perspective, but I'm not sure on that. I sent you a PM

A variant of Junghans 640, perhaps 640.14.

I read this somewhere but cannot recall where. Anybody done it? Once the bezel is hot, how do you handle it...does the crystal just drop in and you walk away until it is cool? I have plenty of crystals, so a mistake is not serious. Thinking I just put it on a hot plate, heat it up. -------------------------------jumped in with both feet------------------------- Wow...that was easy.

I would love to know who the seller is so that I can avoid him!!

Interesting response to your message. As I said it's a shame you don't have a timing machine because that would be real proof of it looks pathetic as opposed to visually looking at it where yes it does look pathetic. As I don't sell things on eBay I don't know all the rules but I suspect that returning something is somehow better for them then a partial. I think if you send something back it's basically equivalent the canceling the sale which it is and I don't think you can give a review on a canceled sale.

I'll repeat the advice to ask for a modification on price, especially if condition isn't like the photos..but I handle the dunked it in oil guys a bit differently. If they send on time and it looks like the photo they get positive feedback with a 'Not only did this seller deliver the watch on time as a bonus I received a free quart of oil...right in the watch!' Perhaps you've seen one of my positive reviews?

That looks terrible. Ask for compensation. The only time I bought a "Serviced" watch, it looked like it had been dunked in oil. I sell watches on ebay I advertise as Serviced. I provide timegrapher pics, a pic of the disassembled movement, and ask them to contact me if they want details of the work.

I've always wondered about the watches on eBay that claim they've been serviced. Often times a picture of the timing machine results and well they usually don't look good for a serviced watch. It's my understanding sometimes the definition of servicing means that they dumped the whole thing In lighter fluid and swish it around a little bit That's a servicing at least by some of them. Then I agree with everyone the description isn't quite accurate See if you can get a price reduction. Then I don't suppose you have a timing machine? Wind it up and send pictures the seller that it looks pathetic Usually if you have a legitimate complaint sellers are happy to give a refund or a discount or something.

Hi I am with Marc on this one. See if you can get a substantial reduction , stating the fact that it was not as described and in view of the work required to make serviceable. A broken jewel and a rusted clamp might only be the visible problems so far. When dismantled there may be others. All the best and keep us posted.

The reason it's copper color is because it's supposed to be made out of copper. I'm attaching an image out of Donald DeCarle's book on practical watch repair. The pin is supposed to be copper so it can be driven out as it explains the book. Unfortunately it's not always copper because people don't have the book and it ends up being all sorts of other things. And sometimes it's barely tapered at all so you have to try both sides to figure out which way it might be to get the thing out..

I used old tweezers split in half and shaped them to fit so I could get behind the narrow point of the pin and push back. You will find adapting old tools helps a lot when coming across new problems. Fusee pocket watches are for experts in horology certainly when it comes to anything with the escapement.

I don't suppose the pin in the fusee was copper color? Then the fruit of the brass pins in the plate I use a 15 a or something equivalent cutting tweezers. I'm not trying to cut the Pin but you can reach in with cutting type tweezers and grab the Pin as long as you're careful you can usually pull the pin out because otherwise as you found trying to pry it out from the backside is very difficult if not impossible sometimes.

I have played with a lot of Russian watches over the years and as far as I can remember they all share the same click layout, namely a spigot around which a roughly circular click with a tooth pivots, and about which an almost circular wire spring sits with one end bent up to engage the click and the other end bent down to engage a hole in the barrel bridge, and a central screw to hold it all in place. With this design so long as the ratchet wheel is removed there is no tension on the click or its spring which means no motive force to propel anything anywhere. So with the power let down you simply remove the ratchet wheel, undo the click screw, and lift out the click and the spring, first noting (or better still photographing) the orientation of each part. If at this point a part goes flying it is likely to be more to do with tweezer technique than movement design, so, ensure that your tweezers are well dressed. The rule of thumb here is that the tips should be such that you can pick up a hair from a piece of glass. Then practice your technique. You only need to squeeze the tweezers enough to pick the part up, and no more. The harder you grip with the tweezers the more motive force you impart to the part when it inevitably makes a break for it, and the further it will fly.

I was searching for new & other challenges and I found that older, but in "good" condition, pocket watches can certainly provide these. Like the 1951 Molnija I posted above had next to being very dirty, escapement issues; hairspring out of shape, pallet jewels and the balance wheel was grosse out of poise. To me all very interesting challenges. Anyhow, I hope to get this end 1920's silver-case Artdeco Omega, with a 35,5L-T1 movement in tip-top condition again. ETA early next week

Update: The calendar is still changing reliably 3 weeks after bending that detent spring to reduce its tension so I am going to call this success.

I ĺike the barrel lid press Ross, i think thats a great idea. I know where you are coming from with the movement holder they can tip when placing any pressure on one side. With a tight screw or releasing a stem. Little tip with the balance tack as i hate to see the h/s stretching, place a piece of correctly sized foam over the shaft to create a table for the balance wheel to rest on. Use a dense foam as opposed to a sponge in case the pivot grabs . Something like an old yoga mat or those foam interlocking mats for kids.

More home made accessory tools Better show of Mainspring press Better view of Presto 5 wheel extractor Balance cock support holder (holes in top and bottom of plastic pots, pegwood insert) Oil holder. Tape to allow easy opening and closing for use. Movement holder. Base enlarged so that it does not fall over easy under pressures.

I never used one because I think it puts a strain on the hairspring. After removing the complete balance from the movement I would turn it over so it can rest then cover it. Work on it when I needed to. Nice work as you say it saves buying one. It's always fun making things on your lathe.

Update. Cut one of the tacs down to allot the balance to rest on the leather pad. Now perfect.

Here is a picture

I take ebay listings with "serviced" descriptions with a grain of salt. At best, they have been competently COA'd and I have had a number that fall into this category. I would have thought that at worst, the watch would have been dunked in oil and called it a day. But I just received a $300 watch that was described as "just serviced" as well as "Flawless" and "super clean" that hasn't been serviced in decades. The case clamps are rusted on so the movement hasn't been out of the case in years. I have to admit that I was 99% sure the watch hadn't been serviced when I bought it as I know where the seller got the watch from as I bid him up on another auction site and was the 2nd highest bidder on the lot, which included four other watches. He listed all five watches separately on ebay, all of them as "serviced", but based on when the auction he won ended and when he listed these watches on ebay, he would have had maybe 1 day to service all five watches. I would have serviced it regardless but to just slap on "serviced" without even making an attempt, competent or not, is pretty galling. I'm curious if anyone here would even bother messaging the seller or would you just leave accurate and negative feedback and move on.

Well, I got a reply. Here was how the conversation went: Me: This was was advertised as "just serviced" as well as "flawless" and "super clean". This watch hasn't been serviced in DECADES. It is filthy with rusted parts and smells like an ashtray. The photos show a jewel that hasn't been oiled in decades with caked on dried oil. All of the jewels are like this. Running the watch in this condition will destroy it. The case clamps are completely rusted on which means you could not have removed the movement from the case and therefore did not service it. Part of the money that I paid for the watch was for the service you claimed had been done. Now I am going to have to pay for a real service, not to mention the cost of any other rusted parts that need to be replaced. I would like a discount to help cover the cost of a proper service or I will return the watch for not being as described. Him: "you will not receive any discount , you me return the watch for a refund. demanding that things be done your way is reall not the way to go. the watch was serviced and is in excellent running condition. please open a claim for return of the watch. any questions please feel free to be nice jim" Me: You did not have this watch serviced. Period. No one has serviced this watch in decades. You lied in your description and the feedback I leave will let others know that you are not to be trusted. Him: again you threatening me to obtain a discount means nothing. please just send the watch back. with the email you sent threatening to leave a bad feedback is enough to get ebay to remove it. do what you like i have offered a solution to you. your choice from here. jim and again {in your opinion} the watch was not serviced... thats just not the case. it was serviced, just not overhauled like you are depicting, please learn the difference jim Me: I'm not threatening you. You said you didn't want to give me a discount on the price to cover a proper service. That's fine. I'm simply letting you know that you lied in your description of the item, I showed you the proof of the lie and you still continue to lie and I will mention that in my feedback. I will be reporting you to ebay for this as well. Servicing a watch means you clean and oil it. That is industry standard. This watch wasn't cleaned as show by the rust and caked on oil. It wasn't oiled as all of the pivots are dry. As I said, running the watch in this condition will destroy it. I guess you think "service" means running a cloth over the crystal?