Making a watch run backwards?

[HighMans]

Hello! This is a bit of an odd question, but if I wanted to make a mechanical watch run backwards -- what would technically need to be done? 

[nickelsilver]

Hello! This is a bit of an odd question, but if I wanted to make a mechanical watch run backwards -- what would technically need to be done? 

Display the time backwards or actually mechanically run backwards?

[HighMans]

Just now, nickelsilver said:

6 minutes ago, HighMans said:

Hello! This is a bit of an odd question, but if I wanted to make a mechanical watch run backwards -- what would technically need to be done? 

Display the time backwards or actually mechanically run backwards?

Actually run backwards

[eccentric59]

I would think you'd need to reverse the mainspring and click, flip the escape wheel and pallet fork ... theoretically. That should reverse the train of wheels and the motion works. Any complications, though ... that would be complicated.

Edited June 26, 2020 by eccentric59

[HighMans]

3 minutes ago, eccentric59 said:

I would think you'd need to reverse the mainspring and click, flip the escape wheel and pallet fork ... theoretically. That should reverse the train of wheels and the motion works. Any complications, though ... that would be complicated.

Hm, interesting. I'm tempted to buy a cheap movement off ebay and try that... Or I wonder if I could commission someone here? Hahaha

[nickelsilver]

Hmm, starting at the beginning the winding system (winding pinion, clutch) would need to be remade to work backwards. The stem would need a left hand thread so custom stem and crown. Click would need to be reversed in function, so some machining there. Barrel arbor remade with reverse hook, barrel modified (if not automatic) for reverse hook. The rest of the gear train is ok, up to the escape wheel. This would need to be inverted. The pallet fork could possibly be inverted depending on design (the guard pin needs to change sides at least), possibly remade. That should do it.

[nickelsilver]

There's a Zenith/JLC caliber, 845, that "runs backwards" in the sense that the escape wheel and fork are reversed due to an extra gear in the train. Time display is normal though. It's like 5x6 lignes though, tiny. Barrel is about 5mm diameter.

 

Some 8 day movements have reversed escapements too, if you're really adventurous you could rob the escapement and fit it to another watch.

[HighMans]

8 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

Hmm, starting at the beginning the winding system (winding pinion, clutch) would need to be remade to work backwards. The stem would need a left hand thread so custom stem and crown. Click would need to be reversed in function, so some machining there. Barrel arbor remade with reverse hook, barrel modified (if not automatic) for reverse hook. The rest of the gear train is ok, up to the escape wheel. This would need to be inverted. The pallet fork could possibly be inverted depending on design (the guard pin needs to change sides at least), possibly remade. That should do it.

 

4 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

There's a Zenith/JLC caliber, 845, that "runs backwards" in the sense that the escape wheel and fork are reversed due to an extra gear in the train. Time display is normal though. It's like 5x6 lignes though, tiny. Barrel is about 5mm diameter.

 

Some 8 day movements have reversed escapements too, if you're really adventurous you could rob the escapement and fit it to another watch.

Yikes! That's very involved haha -- do you know of any movements that actually run backwards?

[nickelsilver]

Yikes! That's very involved haha -- do you know of any movements that actually run backwards?

Hahaha, yes, some quartz watches that have had their stator bent just a little, just right will run backwards. Mechanical, I don't think that the niche market was ever enough for someone to engineer, tool up, and produce such a thing.

[Klassiker]

Pitch it to H Moser. Sounds like their sort of caper.

[eccentric59]

20 minutes ago, HighMans said:

 

Yikes! That's very involved haha -- do you know of any movements that actually run backwards?

Only as a novelty item ... https://www.ebay.com/i/264725473407

Edited June 26, 2020 by eccentric59

[clockboy]

WHY ??

[spectre6000]

I know it was was asked, but my read makes me think there may need to be some clarification behind what he means by "run backwards" as opposed to "display time backwards". Asking in the first place implies a less than thorough understanding of how watches work, and it's not hard to imagine someone who has such an understanding interpreting that as meaning the train is running backwards, while a less technical understanding would interpret the same as meaning the hands are simply turning counter clockwise. Similarly, a technical understanding of displaying the time backwards would mean the hands turning counter clockwise, where the non-technical understanding could mean anything from the dial simply having the numbers mirrored to the same understanding. 

[HighMans]

15 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

I know it was was asked, but my read makes me think there may need to be some clarification behind what he means by "run backwards" as opposed to "display time backwards". Asking in the first place implies a less than thorough understanding of how watches work, and it's not hard to imagine someone who has such an understanding interpreting that as meaning the train is running backwards, while a less technical understanding would interpret the same as meaning the hands are simply turning counter clockwise. Similarly, a technical understanding of displaying the time backwards would mean the hands turning counter clockwise, where the non-technical understanding could mean anything from the dial simply having the numbers mirrored to the same understanding. 

When I say backwards -- I mean the hands are running counterclockwise instead of clockwise. I'd like to have a watch whose hands run counterclockwise instead of clockwise.

 

46 minutes ago, clockboy said:

WHY ??

Because! It's interesting! 

[spectre6000]

Yup. Called it. 

So the train doesn't need to run backwards at all, and all that stuff about clicks and springs and forks being reversed is the answer to an entirely different questing. 

What you are asking still requires some competent machining, but is much less complicated depending on the movement.

[Nucejoe]

What for ???

[HighMans]

1 minute ago, Nucejoe said:

What for ???

Novelty, and just because I find it interesting. A clock that goes backwards? How fun!

[spectre6000]

Why ask why?

[HighMans]

4 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

Yup. Called it. 

So the train doesn't need to run backwards at all, and all that stuff about clicks and springs and forks being reversed is the answer to an entirely different questing. 

What you are asking still requires some competent machining, but is much less complicated depending on the movement.

Alas, it's probably still a bit out of my budget to commission someone to make/modify a movement to do so. 

[jdm]

3 hours ago, HighMans said:

Hello! This is a bit of an odd question, but if I wanted to make a mechanical watch run backwards -- what would technically need to be done? 

That is done with relative ease on Seiko, sorry I don't have the full details on how. Search "Seiko backwards" on YouTube.

[spectre6000]

If you pull the crown on a some Seiko 5s (7S26 I know does this first hand) and put a small amount of torque on the stem as if you are going to set the hands counter clockwise, the second hand will run in reverse. May or may not be what you mean though.

[AndyHull]

Mechanically, in theory, and for most mechanical movements, you only need one extra 1:1 gear ratio in the train to run the thing backwards. However in practice, machining the extra gear, pivot holes, jewels etc,  and moving things about to incorporate it would be a fairly major undertaking.

Having said that, there appears to have been a small cottage industry in the former USSR converting 12hr movements to 24hr movements, so perhaps someone, somewhere could to this for you.

EDIT: Things are a lot simpler if you want to hack a quartz mechanical clock movement to go backwards. -> https://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-Customized-Clock-that-Runs-Backwards/

EDIT2: I would suggest that reversing the coil wires, rather than "reversing the magnet" per the above instructable may be your route to success, since in many cases the 'magnet' in question is possibly a ferrite bar, and only becomes magnetic when the coil is energised.  The permanent magnet in the thing is the rotor, furthermore, some mechanisms rely on a ratchet arrangement to ensure the motor only runs in one direction, so either the rotor, or the ratchet, or more likely both would also need to be modified. Flipping the rotor magnet, and reversing the action of the ratchet may not be as simple as it sounds. The rotor may have a bunch of sloped poles in it like a stepper motor, sloped to ensure it only turns one way.

In theory, the same change(s) would work with *some* quartz watch movements, depending on their construction.

Edited June 26, 2020 by AndyHull

[nickelsilver]

Because! It's interesting! 

Hahaha ok I guess there was a miscommunication early on. To get the hands on a mechanical watch to go anticlockwise is fairly simple, but a handful of gears need to be cut and almost certainly custom hands ( unless you're ok that they're off cententered).

[CaptCalvin]

If having no seconds hand is a satisfactory compromise then this can be done with a simple module on the motion side. But I suspect this would not be a satisfactory compromise for you as the novel effect would be dampened quite a bit without a seconds hand ticking backwards. In which case yeah all the stuff that nicksilver says for a mechanical movement or what AndyHull mentioned for quartz.

[WatchMaker]

@HighMans - also check out the Franck Muller 'Crazy Hours'  watch!