Starter tools and watch repair kits

[MilTimeCan]

23 hours ago, david said:

Mill Time Can,

A number of years ago I bought a set of Bergeon screwdrivers and ran into the same problem. I solved it by running a 2-56 tap through the hole and replacing the slotted screw with a quality set screw. I have found through the years that having the blade perfectly centered in the holder is more critical on the smaller size blades then the larger sizes. For tiny screws I use screwdrivers that are about 2/3 the size of the Bergeon's that come with a collet to grip the blade. The collet always centers the blade and provides enough gripping force to prevent it from twisting around., The smaller size holder also helps reduce the torque applied to the screw.

david

many thanks, will try that !

[Douglas1701]

Dang guys...thanks for all the info...didnt expect so much help.

[Douglas1701]

This is the sacrificial lamb...basically an 18 jewel copy of a 1940's rolex....dirt cheap...which is right up my alley...lol

[jdrichard]

This is the sacrificial lamb...basically an 18 jewel copy of a 1940's rolex....dirt cheap...which is right up my alley...lol

Strip it down and build it back up for practise. I did this with a few Russian watches years ago before I dove into a real value watch. Just be very very patient.


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[Tmuir]

If you haven't already do some research on sharpening your screwdrivers and dressing your tweezers, it will make your life a lot easier.

[TheBeerGuy]

So I've been reading about watch repair for the past few months and take it up as a hobby. Now I'm starting to look into buying some tools. My questions is are those cheap Chinese tool kits worth wasting my money on as I am looking at doing this as a hobby? Or can you recommend a site where I can order better quality tools? I work graveyard shift so its much easier for me to buy online.

Also can anyone recommend some watch repair books for someone getting into it? Just finished one and already looking for another.

[rodabod]

There are many threads covering this. In fact, one recently is largely the exact same topic, so maybe add to that thread to keep the useful results contained in one place.

Buy Practical Watch Repairing by De Carle. Stick with good quality tools in general: Get some Dumont tweezers (number 2 or 3) and European-made screwdrivers (eg. AF Swiss) as these parts replace your fingers since you will rarely touch the watch parts with your hands.

Cousins is an excellent online shop in the UK.

But best advice would be to use the search function!

[Rob]

The best book for beginners and almost the only modern one is "Amateur Watchmaking":

I say "almost", because a couple of months ago there was another similar book released. I haven't read it yet but it looks promising. It's named "Maintaining and Repairing Mechanical Watches":

[TheBeerGuy]

1 hour ago, rodabod said:

There are many threads covering this. In fact, one recently is largely the exact same topic, so maybe add to that thread to keep the useful results contained in one place.

Buy Practical Watch Repairing by De Carle. Stick with good quality tools in general: Get some Dumont tweezers (number 2 or 3) and European-made screwdrivers (eg. AF Swiss) as these parts replace your fingers since you will rarely touch the watch parts with your hands.

Cousins is an excellent online shop in the UK.

But best advice would be to use the search function!

Sorry I'm kind of new in the whole forum world so trying to learn as I go. And for the tools I kind of figured quality is key but figured I'd ask seeing I'm only doing this as a hobby.

I will also definitely check out that book. Thanks !!!!

[rodabod]

No worries!

 

[Cad101]

Even as a hobby its best to by the best tools within your budget you will only replace cheaper tools as you learn and you'll be amazed at how much of a difference quality tools make.

[adiorio110]

I 

32 minutes ago, Cad101 said:

Even as a hobby its best to by the best tools within your budget you will only replace cheaper tools as you learn and you'll be amazed at how much of a difference quality tools make.

I agree buy the best tools you can afford ..You will soon need to replace the cheap ones which  are worth nothing Buy good tools and  if you decide this is not for you you can always sell them and recover most if not all of your cost

Cheap tools = Cheap results

 

Anthony

[jdm]

On 2/11/2017 at 4:15 PM, adiorio110 said:

I 

I agree buy the best tools you can afford ..You will soon need to replace the cheap ones which  are worth nothing Buy good tools and  if you decide this is not for you you can always sell them and recover most if not all of your cost

Cheap tools = Cheap results

That is an overused mantra and is not true. Some cheap tools are just fine, other are ridicolous. Some expensive tools are so overpriced that one can use the money so much better. It's the watchmaker that produces the results, not the tools.

[rodabod]

I agree largely with JDM, but you do have to know where you are best saving cash, and where it's important to buy the best.

Another item you want to have in the best quality (in my opinion) in a movement holder. The cheaper Indian ones slip, and the consequences can be disastrous. Just not worth it: get a standard metal Bergeon. Not expensive anyway.

[david]

The picture above is a Bergeon Rolex Case Opener that sells for over $700.00 dollars.  The picture below is a "cheap" tool and sells for around $150.00.

 

I own one of these and it works great.

This is a set of STELLA tweezers. They are well made, work great and cost around $30.00 for the set.

This is a sew of movement holders and sells for $2.43

This is a set of Bergeon screwdrivers that sells for around $480.00.

This is a set of cheap screwdrivers that sell for $5.49.

Aside from the tips, which can be inexpensively replaced, they work about the same and do the same job.

david

Edited February 11, 2017 by david

[Geo]

Good post David!  I have two sets of the $5.49 screwdrivers you illustrated and have been using them for a few years now.  One set I have dressed to fit narrow screw slots and the other dressed for wide slots.  I have never had a blade break or bend.

[david]

Thebeerguy,

A few books to get you started are:

WATCH REPAIR FOR BEGINNERS by Kelly

PRACTICAL WATCH REPAIRING by Donald de Carle

CHICAGO SCHOOL OF WATCHMAKING by Thomas B. Sweazey  (available from Lulu Press)

WATCH REPAIR TRAINING MANUAL by Arde Bulova (This was the training manuel for the Bulova School of Watchmakig and would be my choice if I could only pick one.)

These should give you enough information to  begin the learning process. Once you develop a knowledge background Mark Lovick's incredible repair videos will begin to make sense.

david

Edited February 11, 2017 by david

[jdm]

2 hours ago, david said:

The picture above is a Bergeon Rolex Case Opener that sells for over $700.00 dollars.  The picture below is a "cheap" tool and sells for around $150.00.

Exactly. Mine is on order as I'm writing this. Should I add about the Chinese timegrapher (now even Cousins carry them) $130 Vs Swiss 1,500? Basic pressure tester $160 Vs Bergeon $500 ? Bench mat $10 Vs 45?

If people (especially beginners) has a fetish and feels blessed buying expensive tools, I guess that's good for them!

 

 

Edited February 11, 2017 by jdm

[david]

JDM,

 Tools either do the job or they do not. I also have the inexpensive timegrapher and it works  fine. I forgot to mention the small size $7.98 demagnetizer  that has proven to be  indispensable when turning a small part on a lathe.

This is an "offical Rolex paperweight" that sells for $1000.00. I can't believe that there are people in the world who feel that an item like this will do a better job holding down a piece of paper.

david 

david

Edited February 11, 2017 by david

[jdm]

7 minutes ago, david said:

This is an "offical Rolex paperweight" that sells for $1000.00. I can't believe that there are people in the world who feel that an item like this will do a better job holding down a piece of paper.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

[digginstony]

Firstly let's dispel the myth that Bergeon are overpriced. If so , market forces would of come into play and Bergeon would, as a company, long since ceased to trade. Yet they continue to flourish.
Having said that I totally agree with Jdm. I have a set of six Anchor screwdrivers that are absolutely brilliant BUT if I bought another set from the same supplier would they be as good? and this is the problem with cheap tools. Guarantee of quality, even from one batch to another.
I bought a set of cheap drivers almost Identical to the ones pictured by "David " and they were so bad I only ever use them as levers.
I own quite a lot of Bergeon tools having replaced the cheap rubbish over time and everything I have ever purchased has been perfect in every respect. Also Horotec have some very good products.
The above is not to say you can't find some great bargains in cheaper brands if the "Gods" are with you but it's a hit and miss affair at best.
"Watchmakers does the results, not the tools" sure but most professionals won't tolerate working with rubbish, as well, like in any "Trade"

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[david]

 

This is a set of Bergeon tweezers and the set sells for $435.66. The Bergeon screwdrivers were $480.00, the Bergeon case opener was $749.00, two Bergeon hand levers $219.00, set of three Bergeon hand setting tools $57.80, two Bergeon eye loupes $93.60, a Bergeon watchmaker hammer for $31.40, a Bergeon automatic watch winder for $1559.00, Bergeon oil cups and oilers $259.00, a Bergeon staking set for $995.00 and a  Bergeon rubber blower $13.88. This comes to $4893.34 to get started working on watches. This is certainly one route to take. If it is $13.88 over budget then hold off on the rubber blower.

david 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2017 by david

[adiorio110]

 

I agree with dinngstony

While I would not buy a $480 set of Bergeon screw drivers, out of my price range, maybe if I had deeper pockets.  I surely would not purchase a $5 set either, unless it was all could afford.

When it comes to doing precision work personally I like the best I can afford. The best I can afford does not necessarily tie it to price. 

While I am pretty new to watch repair myself,  what I do know is when I do other types of work Wood working, Electronics, with more accurate tools ( IE: better saws and blades - less run-out, Soldering irons that can be temperature adjusted ) I do a better job with a lot less aggravation. 

Buying better used equipment in good condition at discounted prices is the way to go. 

Not to repeat myself, another upside is you can always sell better tools if you do not need them any more. See how many people will want to buy your cheap tools.

In the end its all relative, if cheap is all you can afford its not cheap to you.

 

 

 

 

[adiorio110]

On 2/11/2017 at 11:07 AM, jdm said:

Thus is just a mantra and is not true. Some cheap tools are just fine, other are ridicolous. Some expensive tools are so overpriced that one can use the money so much better. The watchmaker does the results, not the tools.

 

While the watchmaker does the results as you put it .. If they cut corners on the tools of their trade, chances are they cut corners on the quality of their work.

[SeikoWatch]

2 hours ago, david said:

 

This is a set of Bergeon tweezers and the set sells for $435.66. The Bergeon screwdrivers were $480.00, the Bergeon case opener was $749.00, two Bergeon hand levers $219.00, set of three Bergeon hand setting tools $57.80, two Bergeon eye loupes $93.60, a Bergeon watchmaker hammer for $31.40, a Bergeon automatic watch winder for $1559.00, Bergeon oil cups and oilers $259.00, a Bergeon staking set for $995.00 and a  Bergeon rubber blower $13.88. This comes to $4893.34 to get started working on watches. This is certainly one route to take. If it is $13.88 over budget then hold off on the rubber blower.

david 

 

 

 

Oh my ! At this price, I do not think these tools are for beginners. But I can be wrong .. Price, is this the reality of what it is worth? .. It seems to me that it is expensive a little do not you think?