Why do Collectors HATE Timex Watches?

[jdm]

58 minutes ago, WatchingOracle said:

So after perusing this forum thread, I was wondering if the feeling is more to avoid touching Timex watches then if one is a noob at watch repairs?

Not "touching". The advice is to not take apart Timex mov.ts, at least not with the expectation of putting them back together in the same or better state they were.

[WatchingOracle]

Thats good to know @jdm I was looking at a cheap one and was wondering what to think. Given im at the tinkering/starting phase of watch repair, I was wondering if it was a)worth the $15+shipping and b)worth the time and effort for a learning exercise.

Edited August 13, 2021 by WatchingOracle

[clockboy]

Timex watches do have following by collectors for sure. We do have a member who specialises in Timex (JerseyMo) who has a very impressive collection. They are not liked by watchmakers because they are not a conventional build but they are serviceable. However I have found them very fiddly. 

[dadistic]

Not just @JerseyMo, me too. I love my (comparatively small) Timex collection, and I always thought that they were an engineering triumph.

However, @clockboy is right, they can be troublesome for a beginner or someone not familiar with the tricks for servicing them.

If you follow the service manuals, for a beginner I'd suggest doing everything *except* unpinning the hairspring. There be dragons  Not as much of a problem for someone with experience, but not an easy thing for someone just starting.

Cheers!

[WatchingOracle]

@clockboy@dadistic Thank you both for your feedback too. Im not sure at this point whether its a good idea or not. Maybe wait till there is some in a bulk lot with other things I'm interested in might be better than spending about $25 on one alone. I guess I am just not sure lol. Anything can be a learning experience indeed, but at the same time, am I likely to be fixing a lot of Timex watches in the future given I only plan on doing this as a hobby for maintaining my own small collection??? Don't own any now so, Shrugs.

[watchweasol]

Hi Have a read at the attached it will give you an idea of the construction and repair philosophy regarding the assembly and disassembly. they are not the easiest of watches to work on and can be frustrating.           cheers

1961_Service_Manual (1).pdf

[canthus]

Plenty on the bay for parts.  Just bought 5 movements (M25 & M100) for £6 GBP incl P&P in uk.  Got 1 complete movt in working order and 4 with various parts missing/broken for spares (including the part I wanted). Other cals at similar prices were available.  Agree they are very fiddly to work with if fully disassembled, but helps fine tune my skills anyway!!

[JerseyMo]

7 hours ago, WatchingOracle said:

@clockboy@dadistic Thank you both for your feedback too. Im not sure at this point whether its a good idea or not. Maybe wait till there is some in a bulk lot with other things I'm interested in might be better than spending about $25 on one alone. I guess I am just not sure lol. Anything can be a learning experience indeed, but at the same time, am I likely to be fixing a lot of Timex watches in the future given I only plan on doing this as a hobby for maintaining my own small collection??? Don't own any now so, Shrugs.

Best to enter the hobby with a bulk buy because you are only going to get there anyway.  One becomes ten, ten becomes a box full and next you are falling asleep at the worksite.  Oh, yes if you last long enough it will happen and I'm sure many here will agree.

So why do collectors hate Timex?  "id say jealously mostly".  go fine another time piece that can run for 30 + years without a service. Than get tossed in the sock draw for another 30 years and still run with little to no effort.  

[HectorLooi]

I think there is something wrong with the title of this post. Timex collectors LOVE  their Timexes.

I think people who hate them are traditional trained watchmakers who are not open minded enough to embrace a different way of doing things.

Ok... I just shot myself in the foot. Time to get some smart watches and see what's under the hood.

[oldhippy]

6 hours ago, JerseyMo said:

 

So why do collectors hate Timex?  "id say jealously mostly".  go fine another time piece that can run for 30 + years without a service. Than get tossed in the sock draw for another 30 years and still run with little to no effort.  

If you think I'm jealous about repairing Timex think again.  Back in the 70's & 80's we would send them back to Timex.  You couldn't take apart the movements they were factory riveted. Parts were only interchangeable with Timex movements. Timex themselves had a very good repair service, many times repairs would be replaced with a new watch for the same price as a repair. 

[watchweasol]

I think you are right there Jersey Mo  but I also understand where OH is coming from in the days past you couldn't open the movement any way, so other than dunk it in the cleaner and swill it out that was it. The whole idea was based on replacement which either included the whole watch or the movement and dial complete, I guess the old ones were scrapped, Only later on did they scr.ew the plates together but the philosophy remained the same.  Some enterprising enthusiasts started to take them apart and fix them, But as commercial model I would guess the labour costs out weigh the cost of replacement.

[HectorLooi]

Has anyone tried rebushing/jewelling a Timex?

Maybe I'll get some bushing rods and practice on some Timexes before working on something of value. 

[WatchingOracle]

7 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Ok... I just shot myself in the foot. Time to get some smart watches and see what's under the hood.

LOL smart watches are honestly a lot more trouble in my opinion then they are worth. I started back with a Pebble smartwatch. Nifty little thing with a great battery... then Apple came along and killed the rest of the market. Google have no idea...Fitbit brought out Pebble and threw out the good stuff and made the quality crap as vs the original great quality of the Pebble. Apple watch would be a lot better if they let you design and make your own faces like Google at least do, but watches that run Android wear are so hit and miss (more miss) and now apparently as of last fortnight they are ditching 99.8% of the currently compatible watches with the next upcoming version. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater?!?

Edited August 16, 2021 by WatchingOracle

[WatchingOracle]

9 hours ago, JerseyMo said:

Best to enter the hobby with a bulk buy because you are only going to get there anyway.  One becomes ten, ten becomes a box full and next you are falling asleep at the worksite.  Oh, yes if you last long enough it will happen and I'm sure many here will agree.

Yeah I am looking at a lot that has a single Timex in it..mainly thinking of getting that now as it has a decent Seiko in it and hope to get it cheap. Be good to have a look about at whats under the hood and as you say, I know that eventually I'll have a box of watch movements lol

[JerseyMo]

6 hours ago, oldhippy said:

" the movements they were factory riveted"  

that has to be the number one misconception about vintage Timex and it is just not correct. 

[JerseyMo]

3 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Has anyone tried rebushing/jewelling a Timex?

Maybe I'll get some bushing rods and practice on some Timexes before working on something of value. 

I've heard of it being done and even can across a watchmaker on FB that said he had custom equipment to do this type of work.  Honestly why anyone would want to do this is beyond me since the ROI just would not be there.  

 

[JerseyMo]

3 hours ago, watchweasol said:

I think you are right there Jersey Mo  but I also understand where OH is coming from in the days past you couldn't open the movement any way, so other than dunk it in the cleaner and swill it out that was it. The whole idea was based on replacement which either included the whole watch or the movement and dial complete, I guess the old ones were scrapped, Only later on did they scr.ew the plates together but the philosophy remained the same.  Some enterprising enthusiasts started to take them apart and fix them, But as commercial model I would guess the labour costs out weigh the cost of replacement.

"Why did watchmakers hate Timex"?  is a very different topic. and the best answer I've come up with is they could not generate a profit repairing them.   Which is why they would tell customers the movements had to go back to the factory.

[oldhippy]

15 minutes ago, JerseyMo said:

that has to be the number one misconception about vintage Timex and it is just not correct. 

I don't know what the hell you call this. The plates are certainly not screwed together.  My thoughts on repairing a timex is to use one of these. 

[oldhippy]

"Why did watchmakers hate Timex"?  is a very different topic. and the best answer I've come up with is they could not generate a profit repairing them.   Which is why they would tell customers the movements had to go back to the factory.

Times had a very good service, you would have your watch back with in a week. 

[HectorLooi]

17 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I don't know what the hell you call this. The plates are certainly not screwed together.  My thoughts on repairing a timex is to use one of these. 

When the dial is taken off, all the screws are there. I've been repairing Timexes the last couple of years but I haven't come across any riveted ones yet.

[HectorLooi]

Photo evidence, Your Honour.

[clockboy]

This link has a YouTube vid and clearly shows that they can be disassembled BUT you can see why I said I find them fiddly. Most just clean the entire movement , dry and lubricate and remarkably this method  works for a Timex.

 

PS yes I did strip my first Timex and it took me hours to reassemble and the performance (by luck) was certainly better than what this guy achieved.

 

 

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/timex-m33-movement-assembly-service.5258238/

[canthus]

Maybe wrong, but some of the same caliber have screws on dial side and some on backside (depending on year of manufacture), but appear to use same posts to screw into.

[JerseyMo]

3 hours ago, oldhippy said:

I don't know what the hell you call this. The plates are certainly not screwed together.  My thoughts on repairing a timex is to use one of these. 

 

 

starting with the model 24 there are three screws on the dial side to take apart the plates. the model 21, 26, 22, and 29 have three screws on the back plate.   perhaps the hammer is better used elsewhere

 

 

[oldhippy]

It looks as though I picked the wrong type of Timex movement to use as an example. I will now go and stand in the corner awaiting punishment.