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A billion edits later.... The information here is great. The people here are great. I'm having serious misgivings. This is a poor way to handle people. Or any of it. This forum doesn't work without mods any more than it works without members. We're not paid to generate content either. There must be mutual respect, decency, and courtesy from the top down. I'm fairly certain THAT has no business being considered "policy", but maybe it should. That's about as nice as I can make it.

I know this doesn't help the OP, but I had to sleeve one of these externally yesterday so I snapped some pics. You can see the post is super worn, and it made setting very hard. I turned the post down in a faceplate, turned up the sleeve in beryllium copper, pressed it on, and bingo!

out of curiosity I clicked on one of my emails and looks like we lack permission. Normally in the past when my emails didn't go through it's because the discussion had been relocated to some other section of the message board. Which was always of frustrations try to figure out where the heck it had gone to. Mark only likes happy discussions. In a prior discussion that he closed down I don't remember the exact wording but the quote above is basically right if you're having a problem reach out to the moderators do not discuss it on the message board is basically what was implied. so we can bicker about the type of lubrication were using but don't bicker about the message board as that does not make for a happy message board discussion was my interpretation. Then compared to a lot of other message boards out there with a watch repair as an afterthought in other words there collecting and they just maybe talk about watch repair this one really isn't that bad.

Idea's on the forum policies should be sent to Mark's inbox, not posted on open forum. Some members have mistaken WRT for wattsapp chat, they eventually end up on my " members to ignore" list. Please talk watch repair on WRT forum. Regds

I've been proudly wearing my recently serviced (and first chrono) Poljot 3133 "Blue Angels" Navitimer. I think it looks great. Although it resembles () another "Navitimer", there is one crucial difference. On this one the bezel does not rotate, so all the scales on the bezel and dial don't do anything - they're just for show. On the Breitling version they work as a circular slide rule for calculating speeds, distances, fuel burn etc. Still, it cost me about 1/15 of the price of an "real" one, so I'm happy. Now, what next? I need to check out those Strela's @Endeavor

The 404 club "probably Le Coultre" pocket watch got a little attention yesterday. It arrived stone dead, fully wound, with a half gallon of wd40 on the surface, so I cleaned as much of that off as possible, let down the mainspring and gave it a few clicks of wind and off it went. It will need a full strip down, clean and service, which I will do when I have time to relax and tackle it with no interruptions. Since parts for this are probably completely unobtainable, I want to take a little extra care with it. This is obviously a quality movement and hopefully once I have it apart, there will be a serial number or some way of identifying its manufacturer with certainty. The case appears to be silver, but so far I haven't found any hallmarks or stamps to prove this.

Very true. Without Mark there won't be a forum. But without the input of us there won't be a forum either. (this echos what in other words VWatchie said above) To me the forum is a joint effort and that also counts for constructive ideas & criticism in an attempt to make the forum better. Both sides, if you like to see it like that, have to listen to each other to make it a suc6. In the end, of course, it can only be Mark who carefully & dileberate decides.

I'd gotten each of my five brothers a nice watch when they turned 50. They wanted to get me something when I turned 65 (3 years ago Friday) and although they wanted to spend more than this, I really liked the look of this Bulova.

A while ago I posted an article published (Daily Telegraph) about Rolex watches and due to a delay in delivery many are purchasing and re selling them at inflated prices ( see eBay listings). However this has sparked a great deal of interest in high end watches and today an article suggest alternatives to a Rolex. Can’t get your hands on a Rolex? Try these instead The Omega Speedmaster, created in 1957, is a masterclass in marrying sporty dynamism with the finesse of a luxury house. The first chronograph to be produced by the house, it’s known for its distinctive tachymeter scale bezel and is what astronauts have been issued with in space. Another brand to excite Telegraph readers was Zenith, a heritage Swiss house founded in 1865 whose name might be more under the radar than some others, but as a reader notes, is well recognised among the “cognoscenti”. It’s known for its El Primero movement, incorporated into some of its most elegant and complicated watches. Then, in the great pantheon of most iconic watches, a Jaeger-LeCoultre Reverso is one of the most sought-after, and beautiful. A dress watch, it was initially created for the polo field – which is why the face can be flipped over and hidden safely – and its sensual Art Deco lines mean it’s an excellent option for the smarter end of your watch roster. Similarly, at the dressier end of the market, the Cartier Tank is one of the most renowned watch designs of all time, the name taken from Louis Cartier’s glimpse of the rhomboid silhouette of tanks in the First World War. The rectangle shape and the roman numerals of its dial mean its sense of classicism has never gone out of style. Sporting and military pursuits have long inspired the most renowned watches of the 20th century, and this is the case with Tag Heuer’s Carrera. Created by Jack Heuer, great grandson of the house’s founder, out of his love of motor racing, its automatic versions come at an entry level £2,100 upwards, and special editions usually become collectors’ items. Two other brands that excited debate were Breitling and Longines. The former’s Navitimer is a masterclass of masculine design; developed as a pilot’s watch in 1952, its hallmarks are the bi-directional slide rule bezel and a distinctive trio of subdials. Longines’ Master Collection is similarly exalted among watch insiders; classic and refined without being overly “mannered” or kept strictly as a dress watch. A version with the moon phase on the dial is always going to carry some weight with watch connoisseurs. Within the Rolex firmament, Tudor – a brother brand of the house – has its own roster of iconic watches. Most notably, the Black Bay, which only sprang to life in 2012 but has a distinctive design identity; someone in the know will spot the snowflake dial and distinctive triangle, circle and baton numerals a mile away. Then of course there’s the grand master of luxury watch houses: Patek Philippe. Its Nautilus range is spoken of in hushed terms as many a watch lover’s “Grail watch” with good reason. As is the case with Rolex, sometimes the waiting list really is worth it.

generally the plates are made out of brass all brass. everything that resembles a post is just machined in typically.

Hi all Time for the next tool in this series and this time we introduce a little controversy Yes we are now talking Chinese Watchmakers Screwdrivers, could there be such a thing as quality watchmakers screwdrivers from China, I think so. I had in the past tried some low cost drivers from China and to be honest after a little bit of work, hardening and tempering and honing the blades they worked quite well, although in the end I settled on the French (A*F) set that Cousins sell, these were an excellent set but my only gripe would be that the thinner blades where a little to bendy and it was quite easy to bend them if applying pressure on a tight screw. This led me to these. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002528364614.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.56751802D1Kqw7 These turned out to be a very high quality set with very rigid hard set of blades. Replacement blades are also available from the same seller should you need them. For £23 plus VAT & P&P they are quite a bargain. Again like some of the other tools in this list their similarity to some well known Swiss drivers may or may not be totally coincidental . I can highly recommend these, so much so I have just bought a second set, just in case Stay tuned there are some more controversial tools to be added to this list soon.

The terminology varies from place to place and now that low melting solder (tin / lead) to meet modern safety does not contain lead and has a percentage of silver in it instead it has made it even more confusing as its modern lead free solder is also now sometimes called Silver solder by people as it does contain silver. Tin / Lead and modern replacement lead free solder is also referred to as soft soldering, these solders have a low melt point. Then you have hard solder which have high melt points where you basically need to get the metal to glow before the solder will flow. This usually has a much higher content of silver in the rods and prier to lead been banned in soft solder was the old solder that contained silver hence why it is referred by some as silver soldering, or silver brazing, or just brazing. Then of course there is also spelter brazing, and the list goes on. When I hear silver soldering I see this as brazing where you have get the metal hot enough to glow, but I know not everyone thinks this, it can get confusing.

Not a bad idea; WOTD. Many other forums do have such a thread Here's my today's watch; a modern version of the old Russian "Strela". The old version (IMHO real) Strela had a Poljot 3017 (Venus 150/152) movement. Next there are Strela's with the Poljot 3133 (Valjoux 7734) movement and the modern Strela has the Chinese Seagull 1901 (Venus 175) movement; apart from the looks, not much Russian left. But, it suited my needs I wanted a modern 21,600bph column chronograph, in a modern 40mm housing with a homage to the old (now $$$ and most likely worn-out) Strela. Bought 2nd hand (3-years old and in absolute mint condition) and after some minor beat & daily-rate adjustments it now runs (on my wrist) spot-on, straight lines with an amplitude of 320 degrees (*assumed 52˚ lift-angle) and 0.0ms beat-error. No need for a service yet but I'm looking forward, at some time in the future, to tear the column-chronograph apart * "Nobody" seems to know the official lift-angle, so if anybody has the official data of the Seagull ST1901 (or the ST19xx's line), I would very much like to hear .......

Where is the members to ignore option ? Still don't see why that little thread was deemed so bad it had to be completely erased ? Even if Mark or someone didn't like us discussing what you see as forum policy, I certainly didn't see what was said as a criticism of Mark or his forum. Will be much more careful in the future.

That bush is worth keeping and adding to 'The Trophies Cabinet' of horrors found when repairing a clock, I've never seen anything like that. I would of thought it was just soft soldered in place, not silver soldered as 'silver solder' (brazing) is not often down in clocks with the exception to repairing some steelwork as hard soldering tempers the brass.

I can't recall that "forum policy" was ever discussed in that thread, but maybe it was. To me, it was simply a thread where we could air our thoughts and opinions about how we, through our behaviour, can make WRT even better. We all love or at least appreciate WRT or we wouldn't be here, would we!? For sure! I trust the mods to be aware of everything that's going on. In general, the moderation on WRT is in my opinion very, very good! It was worth reading and many of the posts had a lot of positive reactions. Why not just lock it, or better yet, keep it going? Anyway, to summarize my two most important contributions: 1. Be kind and helpful to everyone, and if you can't, don't reply. 2. The best way (IMO) to find info on WRT is to use Google. For example, just paste the following into Google (or DuckDuckGo): site:watchrepairtalk.com master craft winder I couldn't agree more. We always take the risk of offending people when we speak or write no matter how benevolent we try to be. I still remember greeting my brother (decades ago when we were young) with a cheerful "Good morning" and he replied "F-U-2", having a hang-over and having just come out of a brawl (I later learned) with his current girlfriend. It was not a good morning and he was offended. Being offended doesn't cause cancer or any other illness so I really think we shouldn't worry too much. Again, what's important is that we always try to be kind to each other, but we can never predict for sure how what we say is perceived. I disagree! We all spend a lot of time and effort making this place the best watch repair site on the Internet, and when well-thought-out content is flushed, it's sort of painful (valuable time that could have been spent on something else). Yes, it is the politicians who make the rules but it is the people, at the end of the day, that make it all work!

The problem is feedback. Chinese suppliers are flooding the market with their products and they only know that sales are being made so that is their only feedback. They don't do marketing studies or "voice of the customer" type exercises to see what people really want. Since they are moving product, they keep doing more of the same. Companies like Cousins give them the feedback and maybe the items Cousins is selling are a cut above the standard crap because of the specificity of Cousins' orders with the manufacturers. There are other companies that order in quantity from these same sources and they specify the quality standards and inspect and reject products that don't meet the specification. At my company, we have done lots of manufacturing in China of our proprietary designs. We do heavy equipment. If we don't write detailed specifications and put boots on the ground in the factory to watch them on a daily basis, we get crap. But if we are diligent in our surveillance, we get equipment that is every bit as good as anywhere else for 40-60% less. But since our shipments are very large, we don't bother with this model unless it is $1M and up for the order size. The surveillance and shipping costs are so high that there is an inflection point you need to reach to make it worth doing. I'm sure there could be a brand emerge that could go toe to toe with Horotec and Bergeon in quality while undercutting them 25-50% if they arranged for large enough volume manufacturing of components. But I don't know if the market will support that venture. There are other sources in Asia that are beginning to show themselves. Thailand and Vietnam to name a couple. Can't forget about India either. China these days cannot meet lead times since they are locked down so much and it is difficult to surveil them in such times.

Haha. I quote that from time to time. Leslie Nielsen one of my all time favourite comedians. He came on British breakfast tv once with a fart machine in his jacket pocket. So funny

what I was looking at the pictures this morning I was thinking about the same thing but I didn't want it display a negative attitude. For those people that are really good at hairsprings I've seen them work miracles but at some point in time there's a limit of what you can do and I'm sure all the bending can disturb the hairspring at one time used to be firms that you could send it out to and they would vibrate a new hairspring for you. The days when people had all they hairspring is necessary to do that now those services are gone apparently the problem with sourcing a hairspring is it's an older watch sourcing hairsprings for older kids becomes very problematic especially depending upon how many were available in the first place. This means basically it have to buy a broken movement to steal a hairspring or better yet take the entire balance complete because they hairspring has been matched to the balance wheel or in this case the balance wheel matched of the hairspring. which means timing screws you have to play with the get the balance to match your new hairspring if you can find one at all.

Well I ended up finding a working watch that I bought for parts. It turned out it was indeed the stepper motor with the other components working fine. Not a big surprise but I sure like this watch!

It was Rich, we just can't get there from here. I admit that I vacillate on the whole: "stay-on-point" v. "chat-like-you-know-them". Initially I was all "keep this discussion on topic" and that still seems to be the best way forward while dealing with a specific question or problem BUT after a while you begin to feel like you know the people you're replying to and it's natural to make a joke, comment about the weather or your health (or lack thereof) and once that happens a thread can go into the weeds quickly. Indeed. It could have easily been LOCKED with a final message to the effect of: "OK, enough. I've heard you and choose to leave the board sub-forums the way they are at this time."

Gonna be like Fidel and wear one on every appendage.

Be Carefull clocks can grab you the same as watches and whats more they take up more room, Ihave 30 plus, 12 of them 400 day and an assortment of french,American and british. I am learning to walk away now, also have about 20 watches mechanical and quartz. some times its hard to pass up a gem.

the title implies the damage was done when the screw was being removed? just a reminder for people that are new here. If you break a steel screw off in a brass plate. Providing there is no other steel components in other words you have to remove everything. The steel screw can be dissolved out. Versus attempting to remove it other methods which can be destructive. I find often times people forget or don't realize there are other ways of getting screws out and dissolving works really really nicely. yes all machined out of one piece of brass. Good for manufacturing point of view very bad from a repair point of view

On this one the material is too thin to reliably hold a new pressed in post.

The pivots on the balance staff should be nice and sharp just like a new sharpened pencil for the balance to have a good action. Many wear and look like a well worn pencil causing the action to be extremely sluggish. You wqill need a lathe to sharpen the staff with a small arkansas stone. There is nothing to fear by unpinning the hairspring most have a kink in then which shows where to pin it. Also look at the cups that the balance sits in they can wear, they should be smooth, using a counter sink can remove marks that have worn into the cups. From what I can see it doesn't look as if the holes are worn. Do not try to remove the center wheel, clean the bottom plate with the center wheel attached.

A not-always-respected convention is that on a scale which doesn't rotate numbers or letter from 4 to 8H are printed upright. You can see that done on Strela above, but not on the Polijot.

Yes, I used to have the Poljot "Antonov" which has the same bezel. It's a nice looking watch but as with yours, it has some, lets be polite; additional "decoration". If you like to check out the Strela's; be aware that the prices asked for the real (Poljot 3017) Strela's are climbing per day and it's a minefield out there. Even though the looks may be good, but you may not get were you are hoping & paying for !! After all those years I'm a bit done with worn-out, tinkered to dead chronographs. I much rather pay the extra for NOS or, if those options aren't available, a watch an alternative modern movement. Obviously I do prefer the NOS option ...... so much more pleasure to work on and the end result is as you were expecting !

Maybe it was or maybe it was not in the correct place for that discussion. But the OP isnt especially responsible or aware of which direction the talking is going to go. So maybe it should have been moved ? Bit sad and boring if you have to think everytime you post anything if that is going to diverse things a little bit dont you think. I hope nobody is saying that humor should be checked constantly, if thats the case then i wont be lasting too much longer

Hermle 131-030 8 day movement. like all modern clocks brass is usually quite thin .. Regulating the floating balance can be tricky. Lubricat recomended by Hermle is Moebius 8000, check for worn holes and pivots.

A very neat job from the professional with thr right tools and skill. may one ask how long it took to complete. a brilliant job.

Yes we all have our favourites the problem I have is lack of funds

Its a copy so this is modern with a floating balance, its a German movement which is held by a center fixing nut. They normally don't last long due to the poor brass which is quite soft and so is the steel.

That is a nice P/W I like the nice easy on the eye dial no cracks that I can see, the whole watch looks in very good condition.

I wouldn't call myself an expert by any stretch of the imagination. It's just easier to find parts for Seikos than for the average swiss watch so that's what I gravitate towards. That Tissot was a classic example of what a typical swiss movement costs to repair vs what it's worth. It's doing pretty well video wise but outside of that it's still worth maybe $100-$150 after it was restored. A nicely restored popular Seiko is worth more and costs less to repair for the same effort (I'm talking divers here). The point may be moot as I don't sell any of the watches I get going again haha. Lazy, nah, any guy that works with his hands the whole day is far from lazy. At the end of the day, you can stand back and see what you've made with those hands. I know you said it in jest but us "works with our hands" types are a dying breed. My son turned 18 now and he couldn't be bothered (nor can most of his friends) working with his hands. They all want the cushy jobs; I guess it's my fault for being soft with them. Whew, that went dark quick... Thank you very much Rich, I really do appreciate it.

When you rock up at someone’s gate and that comes to meet you, you kinda feel the owners are telling you to f.off

Depending on how much the movements cost you, and how willing you are to have scratch marks on the movement, I would prefer to use a purpose built movement holder rather than an adjustable one. I find that with adjustable movement holders, the movement can flip when applying pressure to loosen a screw, if the screw in question happens to be somewhere in the middle of the movement. Also, adjustable metal movement holders can sometimes leave marks or scratches on the softer brass movement, which can be a concern on more expensive movements. A purpose built movement holder will support the entire movement all around the circumference of the movement, preventing flipping of the movement. Since it doesn’t use pressure to hold the movement in place, it won’t leave marks or scratches on the movement. More importantly for a chronograph, the purpose built movement holder will have support for specific movement jewels, which is quite important when fitting hands, which require substantial pressure when fitting in a chronograph. That is not to imply that adjustable movement holders have no use, because they are still useful. You just need to know their limitations. Also, purpose built movement holders for some calibers may be difficult to find, but if you have access to a 3D printer, you can actually make one, although you will have to find some way to make “posts” to support the movement jewels.

I used to listen to whole LP's when I was younger. When I had an hour commute to/from work, I'd listen to CD's but the truth is there's not really any new music that I know that would entice me to buy a new CD. For a while I had satellite radio in a new car that got totaled after 6 months and it was nice but not nice enough to pay for. These days I'm happy with local live music (with a beer or cider) or finding old live shows on YouTube. Even new live shows! The current Robert Plant/Allison Krause tour is getting regular full concert shows posted to YouTube.

Ordered a tube of 100 cap stones for 10 bucks. Will practice flipping them as well as the shock mounts in the pile of junk. Who knows? There might be something interesting in that lot?

When I was a kid Japan was viewed as an inferior manufacturer. I doubt the USA automobile industry thinks of them in that way these days. China will do the same.

Proxxon arrived today. Right out of the box, I can tell it has much less vibration. I am printing a mount just now on my 3D printer so that I can use my Dremel drill press stand. I will post when it is done...and working.

The 4 blade tool works great.... but not the way you think it would work. Initially I had problems with the 4 blade tool. It takes a lot of pressure on the knurled wheel to actually wedge under the beze and advance the bladesl. When having to use so much force, you lose tactile feedback. You can't tell when the blades are not engaged proper or when it has traveled so deep that it is touching the lip of the watch case. In any case, the risk of damaging the bezel, watch case or the tool is very real. The way I discovered to use the 4 blade tool safely is to use a small hammer to tap on the movable jaw of the tool. I first engage the blades of the tool into the gap between the bezel and the case and tighten it lightly. Then I use the small hammer to tap on the movable jaw. The small amount of backlash in the screw threads will allow the jaws to move forward. If there is any "give", you will feel the knurled screw loosen and will be able to tighten it a little more. Continue this tapping and tightening until the bezel pops off or the blades stop advancing anymore. If the blades stop advancing, it probable means that it has reached the lip of the watch case. In that case, you can wedge a thicker blade into the gap under the bezel and pry it off. I hope this helps.

Next favourite of the joblot a seiko a914 5010 LCD from 1984, the year i left school to become a joiner yey

At least you have a microscope to see your third hand. Hehe.

Lol, no. Its usually no underpants as well, that way i have an extra third hand to turn the movement holder if I'm both screwdriver and tweezer in hand. ( I'm just so wrong )

Almost there. Still have to finish off the autoworks assembly and put the case back on. But she's back from the dead and running well. Only issue appeared to be the broken escape wheel pivot and the broken off stem / missing crown. I suspect that someone worked on this watch and didn't align the date jumper correctly with its cam when they put it together. When you get this wrong and force the crown, you'll break off the stem (as I almost did myself haha).

So here we go with the first tool in this series The obquous mainspring winder ser. This set came from Aliexpress and the price seems to fluctuate around £150 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002838742309.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef1802uk2ABx A set of 20 winders with lrft and right hand sizes plus one handle. With this set the important Arburs are all steel and they are sold steel throught the range even some of the bergeon ones use a brass core with steel sleeve on the larger sizes, these are all steel. Construction and machining is all to a high standard Now to the handle which is often a point of critisism in these Chinese sets as there is often only a right handed handle included which can make using the left handed winders a trifle fiddly which is why Bergeon supply two handle in their kits. The handle in this kit is actually cut for both left and right hand use so only one is needed. So on the whole a high quality tool that works well and well worth the average asking price of around £150. Photos below, more tools to follow.

I could have written your post word for word as that is exactly what I have found. Same tools, same results and same technique! :)

This is a great thread. I have always struggled with removing bezels. I have several bezel removing tools and I wouldn't say I have "the one". I have the horotec tool pictured above and have never had great success with it. I even bought the four jaw (Rolex style) adapters for it. I have found that I have the most success with polyimide tape and razor blades. Working my way around the bezel and stacking the blades if necessary. I would love to hear what others have used and how they like them.