Brexit and cousinsuk ?

[Klassiker]

My guess is that the customs are under-staffed for dealing with the extra workload (checks, paperwork) and have to prioritise. Untracked packages (mostly personal, so no business lobby behind it) goes to the back of the queue.  It's my hope that once things "settle down" between the EU and UK, the EU customs will adjust their processes and staffing levels to accomodate the new normal. For sure it's not been the easiest change to manage so far.

[aac58]

I made an order to Cousins on the 17th, only some gaskets to a total of 10 £. It has arrived today, so it took 5 days to get to my door.

Bear in mind that until July 1st, goods under 22 € doesn't have to pay VAT in my country. As Cousins adds the invoice in the envelope showing the total paid I guess it passes quickly the customs.

Unfortunately this is the last order VAT free I'll get (I should have buy more items this time :)) , we'll see how long it takes starting next month.  If Cousins adheres the program to collect the EU VAT, then times shouldn't be affected, if they don't then the goods will stay at the carrier facilities until I pay VAT and a fee the carrier will charge, only then it will resume its way to me.

Fingers crossed.

[jdm]

2 hours ago, aac58 said:

If Cousins adheres the program to collect the EU VAT

Which "program"?

[Klassiker]

On 6/17/2021 at 8:35 AM, Klassiker said:

So, I got round to placing this order, which was dispatched on 9th. June. Normal UPS delivery to Germany is given as 2 to 3 days. UPS have a message on their website, saying they need an extra day due to longer customs processing, now that the UK is ex-EU. Counting Saturday as a working day, that would have meant delivery on Monday and indeed the first indicated delivery date was the 14th. This was then pushed back twice, and the package was delivered yesterday, Wednesday 16th. Not bad, but it seems there are still some longer than expected delays at the border. Whether this will continue, and why the standard post is affected so much more than a courier service I don't know, but for the time being it seems we have to allow for it.

Approximately two weeks later, and UPS have sent me the bill for handling and import duties plus VAT where applicable. The total was around 42% of the invoice amount I paid to Cousins UK, which included UPS carriage. Brexit has made Cousins (and of course any other supplier in the UK) a very expensive option for me from now on. They will still get some of my business I'm sure. I haven't found anyone else within the EU to compare in terms of choice, but I will have to think twice and use alternatives where possible. Such a shame!

[VWatchie]

My "International Non Tracked EU, Royal Mail - £2.98" order placed May 15th finally arrived June 17th. So, what used to be approx. five days of waiting has turned into almost five weeks of waiting. Again, the Swedish postal/customs services and the EU import rules that need to be handled really sucks, big time. Anyway, I'm really impressed by Cousins bothering with these small value orders to the US of Europe, considering the very detailed and likely very costly administrative work that needs to be done to export. I wouldn't be surprised if some small orders are a loss for Cousins. So, I take a deep bow for Cousins 

[Endeavor]

If CousinsUK doesn't register to, I think it's called "MOSS" (Mini One-Stop-Shop) whereby they collect the VAT which is due in the country of the buyer, shopping by them is for me over.

I don't think that CousinsUK is aware, but here in Denmark (and it would not surprise me if similar may apply in other EU countries) the problem is not the change in VAT, but the fees charged, in Denmark's case, by the postal service called PostNord.

PostNord collects for the Danish customs the VAT and for this "service" they charge a standard fixed handling-fee of 160DKK (£18.50 / €21.50 or $25.70)

If there is any value in the parcel, the 25% DK VAT comes on top of the standard PostNord handling-fee.

So any parcel from outside the EU gets hit by £18.50 / €21.50 as a starter.

If CousinsUK were to register to the new EU tax-collecting system and after having collected the appropriate VAT, a special code will be added to the parcel and (most likely (?)) the PostNord "handling-fee" will not be charged (?). Then all what will change is instead of paying 20% UK VAT it will be the Danish 25% VAT. Not a big-deal.

I can not find a CousinsUK contact email-address to make them aware; It's not the VAT, it's the rip-off handling-fee which is charged, for the Danish effectively killing any small trade from outside EU.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Endeavor

[jdm]

2 hours ago, Endeavor said:

If CousinsUK doesn't register to, I think it's called "MOSS" (Mini One-Stop-Shop) whereby they collect the VAT which is due in the country of the buyer, shopping by them is for me over.

Cousins UK cannot register to MOSS not even if they wanted to. 

1. MOSS is applicable to digital goods only, not physical. 

2. MOSS is applicable to B2C (Businesses to Consumers) sales only, but when you buy from Cousins UK you accept that goods are supplied for trade. 

https://www.crunch.co.uk/knowledge/tax/what-is-vat-moss-and-does-it-affect-me/

[jdm]

Some posts that are about the new EU rules hence not specific to Cousins UK have been moved to a new thread below.

 

[Endeavor]

10 minutes ago, jdm said:

Some posts that are about the new EU rules hence not specific to Cousins UK have been moved to a new thread below.

Totally Disagree !

With CousinsUK now being outside the EU, due to Brexit, the new EU rules do affect Cousins purchases from people inside the EU even more. It has very much to do with Cousins and Brexit.

Therefore please reverse the items moved.

[JohnR725]

On 6/25/2021 at 7:28 AM, Klassiker said:

UPS

is there a reason why you go with UPS would there be some other shipping method?

[Klassiker]

9 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

is there a reason why you go with UPS would there be some other shipping method?

Up to now, I kept the value of each individual order below the limit and used Royal Mail uninsured, because of the low cost. Until Brexit, the delivery took a week or so, which I was happy with. Now that option takes a month. This was the first time I used UPS. I needed some items which are classed as hazardous, and Cousins only send these to Europe if you select the UPS road option. I also wanted to find out if the courier options make their way through German customs quicker, or if they also suffer from a 3 week delay. There is a delay, but only a few days. I was also interested in the costs, because I was aware that import VAT would be due now, but that's not the whole story.

Of the bill I got from UPS, just over half was the import VAT and Customs admin. The rest was made up of UPS administrative charges, including something they call Tarifierungszuschlag, which accounted for around a third of the total. As far as I can make out, this is to do with sorting each and every item on the order into its proper import tax category. I don't know if UPS rates are particularly high for this service, or if, for example, Cousins could do something to make it unncessary. I did get a 15-page report for my money, though!

[JohnR725]

the reason I asked about UPS was I've seen this kind of thing before?

2007 is a long time ago to remember things but I looked up the order I did with a company in Canada. They made super tiny radio control airplanes and it must've been on a discussion group of unhappy purchasers in the US where like you after a week or two paperwork showed up with all of the additional charges. So somewhere in all of this it was revealed if you shipped it overnight air which now for $33 seems like a bargain but at the time it seemed really expensive all the paperwork was included. It might be worth explored to see if there's another way to ship if it going by UPS where the paperwork somehow gets absorbed in the cost. As opposed to being surprised later on.

[rogart63]

On 6/18/2021 at 1:34 PM, VWatchie said:

That's sort of acceptable when compared to the approx 5-7 weeks in Sweden. Wish I was German!

And it getting worse. I heard Postnord said there is going to be more delays after the 1/7 . They customs rules will change then. You can no longer get gifts for 1600Sek . going to be lowered to only 500 sek. So checking all gifts will take ages . 

Lucky i chose UPS from cousinsuk.  No gift but only take a couple of days with UPS . Delivered to my door . 

[jdm]

On the matter of high handling fees for imports to the EU, and the possibility that an OSS agreement may alleviate them, here's the answer I've received from Cousins UK.
Goes without saying, I'm also impacted myself as every other buyer in the EU, having had to pay €16.50 on delivery of a £25.51 package today, which having been shipped on 2nd of June should have been treated under the previous rules.

Quote

Our understanding is the IOSS system us for B2C (business to consumer) goods where we are B2B (business to business). For B2C transactions under 150 euro, there is VAT charged but no duty. For B2C transactions over 150 euros, the existing arrangements apply. I understand the local charges from local postal organisations and i agree these are extortionate. We have contacted Royal Mail and UPS about this but their blanket response is they cannot do anything about it. Hopefully as time goes on, competition will emerge and forcibly bring down these unnecessary costs which stop business.

We have found deliveries are slowly getting better, we invested heavily in the IT procedures so now all parcels sent contain the full customs information, including commodity codes, descriptions, country of origins and values. This has reduced the amount of parcels coming back as well as the delays, however the carriers are still not at the levels they were pre Brexit. Reading the forum, i notice a couple of mentions of Sweden. This is by far the country we have the most issues with. Parcels are returned without explanation and Royal Mail are unable to advise why other than rejected by their local customs.

 

[Endeavor]

Thanks for forwarding CousinsUK reply

Unclear to me is what happens to orders under the €150 ?

Yes, one has to pay VAT and no import-duties. But I also read somewhere that if the VAT was paid (which would be under the IOSS sytem, B2C, collected by CousinsUK) the parcel would get a code, indicating that the VAT of the destination country has been paid. The parcel would than sail through the customs without the interference of the Postal organizations.

As it stands now, at least here in Denmark, if the VAT is not paid, the Post will intercept the parcel and will collect the VAT for the customs. For that "service", or handling-fee, they will charge the recipient 160 DKK = £ 18.4 or €21.50

I don't have a problem with paying the Danish VAT via the IOSS to CousinsUK, but it's the postal-service handling-fee which is the problem. As I understood the IOSS system should take care of that and I can't filter this out of the CousinsUK reply. Neither can I filter out if CousinsUK has actually registered themselves to the IOSS or will do so in the (near) future?

To be honest, at the moment I can't see a postal-service competing with the Danish post and waiting for that to happen could be a long wait.

[jdm]

3 hours ago, Endeavor said:

I don't have a problem with paying the Danish VAT via the IOSS to CousinsUK, but it's the postal-service handling-fee which is the problem.

I may be wrong, but I think that even if and when an IOSS system will be established and working, a service fee will have to be paid anyway at the time the order is made. If that fee will be fixed, small or large, uniform across countries or competitive with Post and couriers, nobody is able to tell right now.

 

Quote

As I understood the IOSS system should take care of that and I can't filter this out of the CousinsUK reply. Neither can I filter out if CousinsUK has actually registered themselves to the IOSS or will do so in the (near) future?

Seems clear from their answer that Cousins UK will not join IOSS, because as mentioned before, their business caters to trade only.

Our understanding is the IOSS system us for B2C (business to consumer) goods where we are B2B (business to business).

 

 

[Endeavor]

2 hours ago, jdm said:

Our understanding is the IOSS system us for B2C (business to consumer) goods where we are B2B (business to business)

Obviously I've no inside in how much we, as hobbyist costumers, are contributing to CousinsUK revenue? It may well be that they can easily afford to loose "the little man" and the costumers-trade with the EU? If that's the case, that seems to be a very luxury position.

Good for them, very bad for us.

It seems that I have to wish CousinsUK all the best........

 

[Plato]

I've recently chanced a purchase from France to the UK via eBay and things didn't go too badly... 

I bought some NOS complete balances and the seller took care of the postage themselves rather than using the global shipping programme so I was a little concerned I'd get charged tax twice. 

The items arrived 5 days later and I wasn't charged again in the UK - I've been caught out a few times by US sellers not using GSP and being charged by Royal Mail a standard £15 to collect what might be £5 import tax. 

What annoys me most is that VAT is now added to all purchases from abroad whether the items are new or antique... something snuck in by HRMC under the guise of Brexit? 

Anyway, I guess it has a lot to do with who you're buying from and their aptitude for paperwork - the parcel from France arrived with everything in triplicate. 

 

[aac58]

Thankfully some parts providers in the UK are starting to adopt the IOSS rules (or whatever I should call it) I wish Cousins adopt it too 

Since July I haven't buy anything from Cousins yet, but from what I've read from other people buying goods outside the UE, it looks like the Spanish post company (Correos) is charging 5 € (VAT incl) to those packages that come without VAT paid from the origin. I think it is not too much for most of the packages.

It has also been reported that sometimes Correos has charged those 5 € to packages with the VAT prepaid, I think it's an error as there is no customs papers to be done by Correos.

[AutoOla]

On 6/26/2021 at 6:37 AM, Endeavor said:

Thank you for letting us know which one it is not, very helpful

Let's try IOSS than (Import One Stop Shop); https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/online-sellers_en

...... or perhaps it's one of those other OSS's?

Fact is that there is an EU system by which the appropriate duty can be paid at the source (Seller). This would hopefully avoid the "friendly" local handling-fees.

They are absolutely right in one line give in the IOSS article; "As EU customers are used to prices including VAT, the payment of additional fees at the time of importation might lead to the customer refusing the package in question."

I do hope that CousinsUK signs up for that system ..... making them aware of the coming problem doesn't seem to be that easy.

I sent a question to CousinsUK!

If it already is written here I apologise.

The conversation below, I only removed full names!

My letter!

Hey iam as i supposed one of many Swedish costumer, and the Brexit thing made it bad with our postage service Post Nord! 
They have long handling time and a fee of about 7€. 
So small orders be too expensive! 
So my question is are you in IOSS? Or going to be? 
I think it’s made it easier! 
Always have good service and much need of your shop to do my hobbie! 
Best regards// Ola

Answer!

Dear Mr Ola ,

Thank you for contacting our management team.

IOSS is for B2C (business to consumer) shipping. As Cousins is a business to business trade wholesale supplier, goods shall continue to be delivered to our customers, with local taxes and duties the responsibility of the recipient. 

Kind regards,

Cousins Management Team

[jdm]

1 hour ago, AutoOla said:

I sent a question to CousinsUK!
If it already is written here I apologise.

Indeed, that had been asked and answered already on July 6th.

[VWatchie]

So, in conclusion to the CousinsUK/EU/Brexit debacle I have found an extremely efficient way to get my stuff from CousinsUK to my home address in the EU vassal state of Sweden in 24 hours. I now always use the "UPS International Express Saver" shipping option. Expensive yes, so I always, if possible, wait to place my order until the order value is at least £100 but usually more. So, no more single mainsprings, etc. which is really sad.

The way this works is that UPS sends me a text message telling me exactly what to pay to get my package delivered, and they have the option to pay these fees (tax, VAT, handling, etc.) via "Swish" which is a mobile app used in Sweden. When its time for the delivery the UPS guy calls me and asks me if I'm at home. If I am he simply knocks on the door, I hold up my phone to show the Swish receipt and he hands me the package. I've tried this three times now and on all three occasions the package has been in my hands within approx. 24 hours. Fantastic!

If I know ahead of time that I'm not going to be at home for the delivery I print out the Swish receipt, tape it up on the front door, and when the UPS guy calls me I simply tell him to leave the package outside of my front door.

 

[jdm]

Just received this update:

Cousins are happy to announce that we now support the IOSS (Import One Stop Shop) scheme on our website. This scheme ensures faster processing by your local customs authority without incurring any additional customs or carrier processing fees.

Orders Under 150 EURO

For orders under 150 euros (excluding shipping and VAT), Cousins will add VAT according to the VAT rate applicable in your country. Cousins will then pay this to the respective European tax authorities on your behalf.

Orders Over 150 EURO

Orders over 150 euros (excluding shipping and VAT), will continue to be delivered “DDU” (customs duties paid by the recipient upon receipt) in line with the European Union IOSS scheme.

Thank you for your ongoing support.

Anthony Cousins

 

Note: My county post (I understand there are others also), still charges customs handling fees, but not VAT, for IOSS orders, e.g. Ebay. Their justifications is that the 'item is presented to customs", even if that may not be true, and surely is contrary to the intentions of the program.  I'm curious to know what the various couriers will do about the same.

[rogart63]

52 minutes ago, jdm said:

Just received this update:

Cousins are happy to announce that we now support the IOSS (Import One Stop Shop) scheme on our website. This scheme ensures faster processing by your local customs authority without incurring any additional customs or carrier processing fees.

Orders Under 150 EURO

For orders under 150 euros (excluding shipping and VAT), Cousins will add VAT according to the VAT rate applicable in your country. Cousins will then pay this to the respective European tax authorities on your behalf.

Orders Over 150 EURO

Orders over 150 euros (excluding shipping and VAT), will continue to be delivered “DDU” (customs duties paid by the recipient upon receipt) in line with the European Union IOSS scheme.

Thank you for your ongoing support.

Anthony Cousins

 

Note: My county post (I understand there are others also, still charges customs handling fees, but not VAT for IOSS orders, e.g. Ebay. Their justifications is that the 'item is presented to customs", even if that may not be true, and surely is contrary to the spirit of the program.  I'm curious to know what various couriers will do about the same.

That sounds great . 

[Endeavor]

That not only sounds great, It's great !!

A fortnight ago I couldn't hold it any longer and had to order. To my delight I discovered that CousinsUK had seen the (IOSS) light and filled the order to the (max. allowable) brim.

Yes the parcel was stopped, as everything from outside the EU is these days, but it was released a day later and low & behold the parcel arrive today without any additional (€21.50 !! PostNord rip-off) charges. What a relieve !!

Today I filed another order .....

It seems hard to get in contact with CousinsUK, so via this forum I like to thank them for joining the IOSS .... it basically saved my hobby.

So a BIG THANK YOU to CousinsUK   

Edited January 20, 2022 by Endeavor