Newbie questions for servicing a watch

[Stian]

Hi guys,

I have a few stupid questions I thought you might help me with:

• In "Practical watch repairing", De Carle says parts should be kept together as you disassemble the watch, so as not to mix screws up etc. In Mark's videos however, he seems to put all the screws together. Is this simply a matter of how skilled one is, e.g capable of distinguishing various screws?
• Does one ever run the case and the glass through the cleaning machine?
• How is the main spring cleaned? I guess it does not fit in the cleaning machine?
• Is it a general rule that any complication is removed first, simply to get to the train wheels?
• Is the dial at all cleaned in any way or only blown for dust?
• What is the general rule for whether or not a gasket is placed in after cleaning? Simply only if there was one already?

Yep, these are stupid questions, but I hope for intelligent answers!

Stian

[oldhippy]

Hello Stian, first of all there not stupid questions.

It is experience when it comes to screws. You start off by keeping them together with the parts. With a little practice you will soon get to know what part or parts go with which screw or screws.

You never clean the glass or case in the cleaning machine. I used to wash both in soapy hot water and dry with a cloth. If the glass has scratch marks and there not to deep you can remove them with brasso. There are things on the market that you can also use.  

The  mainspring can be cleaned in the cleaning machine.

Complicated watches are taken apart in an order depending on the movement. You have far more to take apart and far more screws of different size. In fact all watches are taken apart in an order this is something you will find out with practise. You normally find the train wheels underneath the complicated works.

Watch dials are very delicate and should be handled with care and treated as so. I used to use a clean very soft bench brush and brush very carefully and use a blower to blow the dust and tiny hairs away. Most dials are transfers and with old dials you will see the transfer peeling, be extremely careful if you come across this.

Gaskets perish and you should always check, check for a good fit and shape. If it looks bad replace it. Never put the gasket through the cleaning machine.        

[Cad101]

Even tho I've stripped down hundreds of watch movements I always keep my screws and parts together as I dismantle I keep them in partitioned plastic container. As I only use a ultrasonic cleaner I have 6 small breakfast jam pots, three for cleaning fluid three with RO water for rinsing. I clean then rinse then dry with a hairdryer on low heat in batches and each batch goes back in its partition I never really clean screws but I will polish them on a oil stone. I only ever wash cases with soapy water and a toothbrush as OH above stated never put any plastic or acrylic parts in a ultrasonic cleaner it just disintegrates them. Dials can be notoriously difficult to clean I use a very soft artists paintbrush and a very weak soapy water solution never scrub and dont use realy hot water you'll just lift the old varnish and any printing that was on it. 

[Brian3]

When I was at watch school and we were first introduced to chronographs which had many different screw sizes and styles my instructor allowed us at the beginning to fit the screws back into the mainplate for the cleaning cycle, not a thing you want to do long term but until you get to know and recognize screw placement I feel it's perfectly ok, also saves you having to run ten little individual baskets thru your cleaning machine.

You will find very quickly tho that you'll remember or just know where the screws go, also use common sense, flat screws, tapered screws, stepped screws, look at the component you're fitting and the screw hole itself, you can eliminate certain screw styles straight away. Usually watch movements make sense and you'll get the instinct of where each one goes.

Hope this helps a little at least with the headaches screw placement can create.

[Stian]

Guys,

Thanks a lot for your answers, all very helpful!

Stian

[Geo]

10 hours ago, Cad101 said:

 I only ever wash cases with soapy water and a toothbrush as OH above stated never put any plastic or acrylic parts in a ultrasonic cleaner it just disintegrates them.

Interesting Cad, it's not something I have experienced.

Every watch that I have serviced or refurbished has had the case cleaned in my ultrasonic bath.  This is both with and without crystals fitted, and both glass and acrylic.  I have yet to see a crystal disintegrate and that includes acrylics with what appears to be age related cracking.  

I use water into which a couple of drops of washing up washing liquid has been added.  Temperature 40-50 degrees centigrade and three minutes in the ultrasonic.  The watch case is placed in a basket suspended in the fluid.  I would not recommend having the watch case sitting on the bottom of the tank to which the ultrasonic transducer is fitted.  If the crud is really thick, I sometimes leave the case steeping overnight before using the ultrasonic.

[Marc]

My take, for what it's worth;

• In "Practical watch repairing", De Carle says parts should be kept together as you disassemble the watch, so as not to mix screws up etc. In Mark's videos however, he seems to put all the screws together. Is this simply a matter of how skilled one is, e.g capable of distinguishing various screws?
• Recognising which screw goes where comes with experience not just with watchmaking in general but with a specific movement. Do a lot of AS1950/1's and you soon know exactly where everything goes on an AS1950/1 but you may still have to think a bit with an ETA2824 if you don't do so many of those. That being said I still put the screws back into the hole they came out of but that's mainly because I'm paranoid about them going missing in the cleaning machine.
• Does one ever run the case and the glass through the cleaning machine?
• I clean the case, crystal (unless I'm replacing it), case back, and bracelet in a US cleaning bath using (of all things) supermarket own brand budget general purpose household cleaner diluted at about 1 to 1 with hot water (movements go into a rotary cleaning machine using L&R solutions). It is surprisingly efficient at dealing with wrist cheese accumulations, cheap, and I have never encountered any adverse effects. Particularly stubborn deposits also get a helping hand with a scrub using a tooth brush and washing up liquid.
• How is the main spring cleaned? I guess it does not fit in the cleaning machine?
• Goes into the bottom basket of my Elma.
• Is it a general rule that any complication is removed first, simply to get to the train wheels?
• The sequence of disassembly is partly imposed (some things have to be removed just to get at others), partly common sense (removing delicate assemblies like the balance/cock assembly early to avoid damaging while handling the movement), and partly preference. With auto's I usually remove the winding rotor and sometimes the auto bridge as well before de-casing the movement because I don't like handling the movement with a slightly unstable heavy weight moving around on it. Dials and calendar wheels come off before the movement goes upside down into a movement holder so as to avoid scratching delicate cosmetic finishes. I think everybody has their own approach and preferences.
• Is the dial at all cleaned in any way or only blown for dust?
• Golden rule with dials is to do as little as you can get away with. The more aggressive the cleaning the more risk of expensive damage, and a vintage dial with "patina" is (almost) always more acceptable than a perfectly "clean" dial with scratches or some of the printing missing. (My opinion).
• What is the general rule for whether or not a gasket is placed in after cleaning? Simply only if there was one already?
• Unless it is obviously in perfect condition (no cracks, no perishing, still nice and elastic, not stretched, clean, etc) I will always try to replace a gasket. Gaskets are cheap, water damage isn't. Don't forget to use a silicon gasket grease too as this helps to improve the water resistance and eases movement of sealing surfaces against the gasket, reducing the risk of distortion.

 

As OH said, there is no such thing as a stupid question, an enquiring mind is a gift (or in a small child a burden... for the parents!!)

[szbalogh]

I have not done this yet but according to De Carels book this is the traditional way for main spring cleaning:

 

[Marc]

Interesting video Szbalogh. That is exactly how I grease a mainspring before reinstalling it into the barrel, but only after cleaning it in the Elma.

I also wear nitrile gloves for this job to avoid any contamination of the main spring.

[Cad101]

Yes I've fallen prey twice to crystals milking and becoming pitted after cleaning in my ultrasonic so i no longer clean anything plastic. i also bought some little plastic screw lid pots for cleaning parts in and the lids welded themselves to the pots.

[Pip]

i also bought some little plastic screw lid pots for cleaning parts in and the lids welded themselves to the pots.

Oh no, I've just ordered some little plastic pots for my US machine! Is this a common issue?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Cad101]

You may be lucky I wasn't I think it depends on the type of plastic I use small glass jars that had jam in them much better.

[anilv]

If you're fixing watches on a daily basis then you'll get the hang of it, or at least know when to take special note of certain screws.

BUT for the hobbyist its a different matter.

Typically, a watchmaker would look closely at the parts as he removes them, particularly a watch which is not so common. For example to very similar screws holding the same part may be of different lengths, the watchmaker would take note of this and remember it when he assembles the watch a few hours later.

A hobbyist, on the other hand, may only come back to the watch a few days (or weeks!) later, by which time he may wonder 'now which hole did the shorter screw go' or even forget that there were two different screws. For example, I have an Eterna on my desk half-done for the last two weeks!

Also, a hobbyist may not be able to have a permanent workspace...your wordesk may be the dining table or writing desk, requiring you to pack up everything once you're done for the day. Chances of getting things mixed up  is high.

Knowing this, the hobbyist can take steps to avoid problems.. keep parts in batches, ie train wheels with screws and wheel. Barrel bridge with barrel, click,ratchet wheel etc. small tins are best.

Hope this helps

Anil

[Vich]

Hello Stian,
I personally am not gifted with a great memory and am an amateur who loves to tinker with watches.
To help me counter my failings I find that being methodical in the approach helps me to succeed (at least 60% of the time [emoji6]) and the best advice I can give is to take digital photos of everything you do before and after dismantling with screws appropriate to particular parts lying beside relevant holes in close up. Just makes life so much easier.
When putting stuff back together. Also if you come across clicks or springs,date rings etc. that have a particular orientation it helps.

You may find conflicting experiences and opinions and this is normal and all the helper can do is relate their own personal belief based upon their own experiences. It will not mean either is wrong it just means they have worked upon similar items but perhaps of a differing composition and using different types of machines.

In reality it will be yourself trying things out over time that will come to conclusions and make mistakes thereby building a knowledge base.
This forum will help in that respect by giving various suggestions.
Cheers,
Vic

[Stian]

Thanks a lot guys, and I will pick these suggestions up. I was indeed planning to do as Vich suggested and record the entire process the first few times. I'm getting my last few pieces of kit today and will start working on it this evening. Looking forward to practical work!

Stian

[Vich]

Good to hear, be warned this hobby is addictive though. Fingers crossed for your first success [emoji1303]
Cheers,
Vic

[Pip]

I'm getting my last few pieces of kit today

Yeah, good luck with that! I've bought my last few pieces about eight times in the last two weeks, and I now have a few more last few pieces to get... I get the funny feeling that this is a rabbit hole deeper than any Alice ever fell down.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[chrisdt]

I agree with you Vich...Digital  photos every step of the way.......Especially if you can remember the Festival of Britain !!!