Completed servicing Gruen 550ss last night and it was running within +10 seconds/day, this morning it is running CRAZY slow and the ticking sounds strange

[Max50916]

Last night I had the movement running super smoothly within 10 seconds/day with decent amplitude (I don't remember exactly but I want to say 200) Today it was running insanely slow (400 seconds slow per day), the amplitude was around 120. I think it has something to do with the pallets because it is making an odd sound while ticking. One tick is much louder than the other.

The hairspring looks very straight and pivots on balance look good. I don't think it's an end shake issue from the balance because the odd tick if I give it more space.

Any ideas on what could cause this? I haven't messed with anything since last night so I'm not really sure what's going on or if it was just a fluke that it was running smoothly when I timed it last night.

[nickelsilver]

200 degrees is the lower limit after 24 hours in a vertical position for vintage pieces by some Swiss makers. 200 horizontal at full wind is far from decent amplitude. Not much use looking at the timing discrepancy after a day of running until you get the amplitude up to a healthy level.

 

At 120 degrees of amplitude every little fault in the escapement gets amplified, no surprise if it sounds strange. Almost impossible to troubleshoot the amplitude problem without more information, but the timing difference could be something as simple as the regulator pins too open.

 

-how was it cleaned, how was it oiled?

- was there train freedom and recoil of the escape wheel after a couple of clicks of wind, dry movement, fork out?

-does the fork snap back and forth cleanly with a slight nudge with just a few click of wind?

-does the balance oscillate freely with the fork out? with the fork in, no power?

Edited April 22, 2022 by nickelsilver

[mikepilk]

As @nickelsilver says - "does the balance oscillate freely with the fork out?". But was is 'freely'?

One test I do straight after cleaning, is put the balance and cock on to the mainplate, then give the balance a good blast from a dust blower. For a balance like that, I want to see the balance still moving well after 30 seconds. If it's barely moving, or stopped, after 30 seconds, something's wrong.

You can also have a good look at the mainspring from the side, and check endshake.

[Max50916]

48 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

200 degrees is the lower limit after 24 hours in a vertical position for vintage pieces by some Swiss makers. 200 horizontal at full wind is far from decent amplitude. Not much use looking at the timing discrepancy after a day of running until you get the amplitude up to a healthy level.

 

At 120 degrees of amplitude every little fault in the escapement gets amplified, no surprise if it sounds strange. Almost impossible to troubleshoot the amplitude problem without more information, but the timing difference could be something as simple as the regulator pins too open.

 

-how was it cleaned, how was it oiled?

- was there train freedom and recoil of the escape wheel after a couple of clicks of wind, dry movement, fork out?

-does the fork snap back and forth cleanly with a slight nudge with just a few click of wind?

-does the balance oscillate freely with the fork out? with the fork in, no power?

Good questions! It was cleaned with zenith radiant and drizebrite using the three jar method from a l&r master.

Yes there is train freedom and very slight recoil from escape wheel.

Fork snapping back well after very little wind.

I tried to attach a video of balance after a puff of air with no fork but it won't let me for some reason. but it's moving very smoothly and for a long time with no power other than initial air puff

[mikepilk]

Anything less than about 240 deg amplitude and I'd be stripping it for re-clean and examination of parts

[Nucejoe]

 Sound of ticking can change within ten hrs,  if escape teeth and pallets run unlubed. 

Is the oscilator in beat? 

 

 

[watchweasol]

Reference Joes answer. did you srip the balance spring off and re fit . If yiu did the collet may be on the loose side and has moved during the testing phase hence the off beat tick.

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, Max50916 said:

Last night I had the movement running super smoothly within 10 seconds/day with decent amplitude (I don't remember exactly but I want to say 200)

Did you use a timing app or a timing machine for determining the rate?

3 hours ago, Max50916 said:

Good questions! It was cleaned with zenith radiant and drizebrite using the three jar method from a l&r master.

In addition to the cleaning did you change the mainspring?

A

[Max50916]

6 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

 Sound of ticking can change within ten hrs,  if escape teeth and pallets run unlubed. 

Is the oscilator in beat? 

 

 

Escape teeth and pallets were lubed.

Sorry could you elaborate on "oscillator in beat"? 

[Max50916]

5 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Reference Joes answer. did you srip the balance spring off and re fit . If yiu did the collet may be on the loose side and has moved during the testing phase hence the off beat tick.

No I didn't mess with the hairspring or collet and was able to easily lube pivots fire to the incabloc

[Max50916]

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Did you use a timing app or a timing machine for determining the rate?

In addition to the cleaning did you change the mainspring?

A

Yes I used a weishi 1000 timegrapher. No I kept the original mainspring, perhaps I should try a new one

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, Max50916 said:

Escape teeth and pallets were lubed.

Sorry could you elaborate on "oscillator in beat"? 

Balance in beat, ie: Balance pivot, impulse jewel and escape pivot should fall on a line when the balance comes to a stop.    Zero beat error.     

[watchweasol]

Hi This link explaiins what the beat error is, Basicaly the clockwise swing of the balance and the anti clockwise swing should be equal in a perfect world but shoule the swings become unequel by say 0.02ms we say theoreticaly its out of beat. There is a tolerance level and they should be as close to 0.00 as possible, because of mechanical diferences not always aceivable

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