Mainspring winders

[Plato]

4 hours ago, ign03 said:

Sorry, I forgot to mention that my idea would then be to buy a separate handle like this one (https://www.ebay.com/itm/273038305989hash=item3f9259eac5:g:S38AAOSwP-5Z3pnk), in case it would fit. Does that make sense?

The winders look good. I think they were originally made by a company called WIT, then by Favorite. Bergeon now make them with Bergeon branding but they're all pretty much the same size. There's some difference in build where the arbor attaches to the mainspring but they all work the same way. 

[ign03]

Wow! Thank you for the information! So, do you think it’s possible that the Bergeon handle fits?

[Plato]

1 hour ago, ign03 said:

Wow! Thank you for the information! So, do you think it’s possible that the Bergeon handle fits?

Yes, I've mixed and matched in the past without a problem. It's possible to use them without the handle too. If you have any doubts, measure the diameter of the winders when they arrive and I'll compare it with mine. 

[ign03]

Awesome! Thank you! I will let you know once I receive them ^^

[JinTie]

My evaluation of it is due to the constraints of manufacturing costs.  This tool is cheap and can be used as well.  But the workmanship and materials will not be very good, you need to polish it yourself.  I'm from China, so I'm constantly exposed to these tools.  In addition, there are some tools such as spring winders. As far as I know, there are five or six versions in China. There is a high probability that you will buy junk with copper spindles. In fact, we have better ones, but I seem to  I have never seen anyone put it for sale on an international website.

[JinTie]

Just now, JinTie said:

My evaluation of it is due to the constraints of manufacturing costs.  This tool is cheap and can be used as well.  But the workmanship and materials will not be very good, you need to polish it yourself.  I'm from China, so I'm constantly exposed to these tools.  In addition, there are some tools such as spring winders. As far as I know, there are five or six versions in China. There is a high probability that you will buy junk with copper spindles. In fact, we have better ones, but I seem to  I have never seen anyone put it for sale on an international website.

 

[jdm]

On 2/7/2022 at 3:28 PM, JinTie said:

.As far as I know, there are five or six versions in China. There is a high probability that you will buy junk with copper spindles. In fact, we have better ones, but I seem to  I have never seen anyone put it for sale on an international website

Yes, readers here know about the different versions as discussed in some previous posts of this topic.

[HectorLooi]

On 2/7/2022 at 10:28 PM, JinTie said:

My evaluation of it is due to the constraints of manufacturing costs.  This tool is cheap and can be used as well.  But the workmanship and materials will not be very good, you need to polish it yourself.  I'm from China, so I'm constantly exposed to these tools.  In addition, there are some tools such as spring winders. As far as I know, there are five or six versions in China. There is a high probability that you will buy junk with copper spindles. In fact, we have better ones, but I seem to  I have never seen anyone put it for sale on an international website.

Do you know of any seller with good quality tools? 

[JinTie]

I think KWONG YUEN's tools are relatively good, their screwdrivers and some gadgets are great, but I don't know what platforms they sell on. BIAO ZHUN and YONGJIU, TIANJIU, RUIHUA tools are cheap, so don't expect too much from their quality. LING HUI is a brand that has appeared recently, and their quality is relatively good. Mainspring Winders

 There are many suppliers, their manufacturing costs are not the same, I think they are all produced by the same factory, you'd better ask what material the center shaft is before buying. Best Mainspring Winders

 There should be no purchase channel, we contact the purchase in WeChat, and it is relatively not cheap.

[ign03]

On 1/28/2022 at 8:58 PM, Plato said:

Yes, I've mixed and matched in the past without a problem. It's possible to use them without the handle too. If you have any doubts, measure the diameter of the winders when they arrive and I'll compare it with mine. 

The mainspring winders finally arrived!! The diameter of the winders (the part that goes inside and locks with the handle) is around 11.9 - 12 mm. Do you think that would fit a Bergeon handle?

I will post later more pictures of all the handles since I have some very small ones where it's written 3/0 or 4/0 and I'm slightly confused with the sizes.

Thanks!

[Tore]

My Bergeon winders is 12.05 in the handle, and 12.00 where you measering. So they will fit.

[ign03]

5 minutes ago, Tore said:

My Bergeon winders is 12.05 in the handle, and 12.00 where you measering. So they will fit.

Perfect! Thank you Tore!

[Plato]

1 hour ago, ign03 said:

Do you think that would fit a Bergeon handle?

Yes, I measured 12mm too. 

[Levine98]

Hi,

I've been learning to repair pocket watches and have decided to invest in a mainspring winder. Since I plan on sticking to a relatively small set of pocket watch sizes, I'm going to skip buying the whole set (which is also prohibitively expensive for me) and just purchase Bergeon 30082-M Mainspring Winder Handle (Right Handed) and winders as needed. 

My question concerns what sizes winders should i purchase and do you know the model/part number? 

The mainspring barrels I have are all come from Elgin pocket watch 16s movements (at the moment). The interior of the barrel measures 16.25mm not accounting for the small notch on the inside wall (that catches the mainspring hook). The only in stock winders at the moment appear to be 14mm (15 is not even available and 16 is out of stock). 

Is 16mm too close to the size? Is 14mm too small in that it might wind the spring too tight?

Lastly I can't seem to find a chart anywhere that relates the size of the winders to a Bergeon model number? Are do distributors simply sell them buy size?

Thanks in advance. 

Levine98

[Marc]

36 minutes ago, Levine98 said:

I can't seem to find a chart anywhere that relates the size of the winders to a Bergeon model number

HJ-Mainspring-Winders.pdf

or go here and download the Bergeon catalogue. The listing for M/S winders gives dimensions.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Marc
Addition of link

[Levine98]

26 minutes ago, Marc said:

HJ-Mainspring-Winders.pdf 849.06 kB · 1 download

or go here and download the Bergeon catalogue. The listing for M/S winders gives dimensions.

Super, thanks!

[Levine98]

First off, this is exactly what I needed--thanks

Funny, this is why it's so difficult to make sense of catalog numbers:

BBergeon 2729-T11 - 15.0

Bergeon 2729-T12 - 16.0

Why not list the 15mm one as T15 and so forth....

[Levine98]

Well received my Bergeon winder and am starting to question if I bought the right tool for the job re: the T11 winder is the correct size for my 16s mainspring barrels, but the notch on the winder is so small that it can't hold the mainsprings coming out of these old pocket watches.

Does anyone have experience using this winders with pocket watch mainsprings? Or are they intended solely for lighter weight narrower wrist watch movement mainsprings?

Thanks

[nickelsilver]

Is the inner coil a snug fit on the winding arbor? In my experience even a small hook will hold fine, as once the spring starts to wrap around the arbor the subsequent wraps hold it firmly in place. Perhaps you have a defective one? Also, the modern Bergeon arbors have the hook recessed, perhaps the recess area is too small for the pocket watch spring. I have all old old Bergeons, for the most part they don't have the hook recessed and the biggest issue I have with them is the arbors tend to be too large for modern Nivaflex springs.

 

Can you post a couple of photos?

[MarcusD]

I'm a relatively new hobbyist but I'm starting to get better at servicing my own watches. The one part I haven't been able to service yet is the mainspring because I've heard doing it by hand could cause damage. I'm ready to invest in some mainspring winders, but as I'm sure you all know they can be quite expensive. I've looked on eBay for used sets but there isn't much available. I think the best option for me would be to just buy new ones from Bergeon. Ideally I would buy the 17 piece right & left set, but I'm not willing to spend $1300 on them. Bergeon sells a 7 piece right & left set (5.6mm to 9.8mm) that is more in my price range but I don't think the sizes would be good for the watches I work on. I think I'm just going to have to buy all the winders individually and make my own set.

My question is this: If I only bought 5 winder sizes, which ones should I get? I mainly work on vintage men's watches with swiss movements (Hamilton, Omega) and occasionally Japanese movements. Right now I'm thinking sizes 5-9 (8.6mm, 9.8mm, 10.8mm, 12.0mm, 13.0mm). I'd also be curious if you think buying the left hand arbors for each size is worth it.

[jdm]

54 minutes ago, MarcusD said:

I'm a relatively new hobbyist...

I think the best option for me would be to just buy new ones from Bergeon. 

What bettet fits a normal hobbyst budget are the Chinese sets widely discussed previously on this topic.

[TimpanogosSlim]

I wonder if someone can comment on the presumably better, somewhat more expensive chinese sets, like this one for about $200: 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002838742309.html

I'm not on the edge of buying one - between my schilling and k&d winders my only real heartburn is that i have nothing for larger barrels, as on the 649x and similar sized movements i have. 

It appears they have steel arbors. But it also appears that the sets are for specific, currently popular movements, which suggests to me that i probably won't find a use for more than half of them. Also, it won't solve the current tool need that i have. 

[jdm]

2 hours ago, TimpanogosSlim said:

I wonder if someone can comment on the presumably better, somewhat more expensive chinese sets, like this one for about $200:

There are various comments already about these, including people that have them, also in the steel version. Check page 21 of this topic, and there around.

[Paul80]

Hi all

Just took delivery of one of these Aliexpress mainspring winders

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Hea4ada4d75d444c7977101be195a06f4G.jpg?width=800&height=800&hash=1600

And can confirm this one does have steel winding arburs instead of the usual Chinese Brass others have and they are very well made, so well worth the under £1600 asking price.

Paul

[VWatchie]

On 6/24/2018 at 8:47 PM, clockboy said:

However if you see a Master craft winder I recommend you purchase.

These are rare and I've been waiting for this tool for almost four years now and today the right deal came up on eBay. Bought it as soon as it came up from a saved search with e-mail notification. Offered the seller $130 and it was immediately accepted. It's going to be interesting. Thanks for the tip @clockboy!