Elma Watch Cleaning Machine

[LittleWatchShop]

Yes...much better pictures!

[LittleWatchShop]

Well, if the axle hit the case, you may have shorted a path to the mains.

[GaspardColigny]

6 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I need to see more pictures. There appears to be only two wires connected to the speed controller. Is that right?

The speed controller looks like a wire wound rheostat. It varies from 0 to R ohms. R is probably in the range of 500 to 2000 ohms SWAG. Lowest speed when R is dialed in and fastest when 0 is dialed in.

I am troubled by the fuse blowing. No setting on the rheostat should cause that, so even if it is damaged in some way causing 0 or R, it would not blow a fuse. However, if one of the wires is shorted to the case, then you might blow a fuse...and this is possible due to physical damage.

I would unplug power and remove the rheostat and inspect it...post pictures.

I will get the right tools to remove the rheostat and I will shoot some better pictures. Any parts you would specifically want photos of? 

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, GaspardColigny said:

I will get the right tools to remove the rheostat and I will shoot some better pictures. Any parts you would specifically want photos of? 

Just want various views of the rheostat. Possibly moot I'd the axle is broken from the rheostat frame. If you have an ohm meter, measure the resistance through the outside terminals. You will need that info to get a replacement.

[HectorLooi]

10 hours ago, GaspardColigny said:

 

 

I think there is something wrong with this connection. The blue wire of the incoming AC doesn't seem to be connected to anything.

And on the other side, the blue wire is connected to the live wire. There is a green/white wire, which should be ground, that is connected to the last terminal.

Check that out carefully.

[xyzzy]

7 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I think there is something wrong with this connection. The blue wire of the incoming AC doesn't seem to be connected to anything.

And on the other side, the blue wire is connected to the live wire. There is a green/white wire, which should be ground, that is connected to the last terminal.

Check that out carefully.

If I can guess here that the wires on the top are colored correctly, then we have the neutral connected to the hot and the hot connected to the 3rd terminal.  But the 3rd terminal also has the case earth ground for some part of the case.  And the earth ground from the cord is connected to the case too.  Since the heater or motor don't actually care which is hot and which is neutral, we do have a circuit here.  Hot/brown to blue to the motor/heater to brown to earth ground wire to the case to the earth conductor in the cord. 

Of course using the earth line as the neutral return isn't allowed.  And will trip a RCD or GFCI.  But the electrons don't care and will follow this path.

[GaspardColigny]

8 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

I think there is something wrong with this connection. The blue wire of the incoming AC doesn't seem to be connected to anything.

And on the other side, the blue wire is connected to the live wire. There is a green/white wire, which should be ground, that is connected to the last terminal.

Check that out carefully.

 

59 minutes ago, xyzzy said:

If I can guess here that the wires on the top are colored correctly, then we have the neutral connected to the hot and the hot connected to the 3rd terminal.  But the 3rd terminal also has the case earth ground for some part of the case.  And the earth ground from the cord is connected to the case too.  Since the heater or motor don't actually care which is hot and which is neutral, we do have a circuit here.  Hot/brown to blue to the motor/heater to brown to earth ground wire to the case to the earth conductor in the cord. 

Of course using the earth line as the neutral return isn't allowed.  And will trip a RCD or GFCI.  But the electrons don't care and will follow this path.

Yes, the wiring is a bit of a hot mess, I will have to rewire and resolder it, will have to pick up the right equipment at a friend first.

[GaspardColigny]

10 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Just want various views of the rheostat. Possibly moot I'd the axle is broken from the rheostat frame. If you have an ohm meter, measure the resistance through the outside terminals. You will need that info to get a replacement.

Will do, hopefully my friend has a multimeter lying around as well.

[GaspardColigny]

So, I've removed the rheostat and found that the spring has broken. This could have happended in transit, perhaps tye same incident that shattered the know. Or it could have been my own doing, the moment I pushed down the axle and blew the fuse.

I reckon this can be resolderd?

 

 

[LittleWatchShop]

I would first try to fix it.  If you fail, there are 2K rheostats/potentiometers that can be found.

[GaspardColigny]

58 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I would first try to fix it.  If you fail, there are 2K rheostats/potentiometers that can be found.

yes, I reckon it can be soldered easily.

[GaspardColigny]

First time soldering, I reattached the spring to the Rheostat, Multimeter showing correct Ohm readings.

 

Then I started rewiring, I've attached 3 photos, and the schematic earlier in this thread.

I'm fairly sure about the neutral and live wiring ( O and P on schematic respectively)
L = Light
SH = Switch heater
SM = Switch Motor

However I'm uncertain about the connection on the base plate leading to the heater element. If I read the schematic correctly, should a wire run from the Light, connecting up to the blue/neutral for the Heating element on the base plate?

 

 

 

 

[GaspardColigny]

I think I'm mistaken, the Light switch is wired differently than the Motor Switch, time to have a second look...

[GaspardColigny]

This is the final wiring configuration, an I'm excited to report all is working now!

When changing the speed of the motor there's a bit of wobble/rattle in the axle for the basket, feels like the bearimgs could use a service. I have no idea what level of wobble is acceptable.

[praezis]

The shown schematic is wrong and should be deleted here. Attached the corrected one.

Frank

[GaspardColigny]

Uhm, it's the same one? As in, literally the same picture as well.

[GaspardColigny]

On 12/15/2021 at 12:08 PM, praezis said:

The shown schematic is wrong and should be deleted here. Attached the corrected one.

Frank

Ok, I found it: in this version the heating element is connected, from the base, to the neutral (0), instead of the live wire (P). All is working as intended now!

[JAHM]

Hi all, It's taken a year or so (time just gets away from you) but the rusted, beaten up, non working Super Elite is now 95% completely restored.  Powder coated in "Marigold", it will look good in the study. However that 5% remaining is bugging me.

One thing I wasn't able to do is find a red lens for the bulb holder or a clear photograph of an original Elma decal (the gold and blue one from the older machines). If anyone can provide one, sell one or flick over an image that would be magic. 

Cheers and thanks to everyone on this site.  Other restorations and general data makes life so much easier than doing everything oneself.  Better outcomes to.

Thanks, John  

PS. I still need to polish the heater cover.... next weeks chore.

[maclerche]

The Elma Junior WE Is cool 
 

 

[Marc]

Ooooo... I like that.

looks like a cross between a watch cleaning machine and a Kenwood Chef !!!!

[grsnovi]

Looking at the photo that @Marcposted above makes me wonder if you couldn't start with one of those, put in an offset pivot for a larger turntable and rig up a spindle to a standard Elma basket stack and end up with a watch cleaning machine for less than £11,995.00,

[Nacunad]

Hi there: 

First off, my name is Nelson, and I'm trying to advance in this wonderful watch repair world (as a hobby, not as a career :-). I recently bought an Elma Super Elite machine with some wiring problems, and I can't seem to find how to wire the heating element. Should I cut the black wire coming from the wall plug and connect each end to one of the white cables coming from the heater? I saw some remnants of the old wiring and that seems to be the case, but I don't know if that even makes sense. As you guys may have already guessed, I have ZERO knowledge in electricity/electronics, and would very much appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks a ton in advance.

Nelson. 

[grsnovi]

@Nacunad you might want to send a private message to @GaspardColigny and ask him directly. He seems to have the wiring down pat. If he elected not to watch this thread, he might not see your question.

[LittleWatchShop]

10 hours ago, Nacunad said:

Hi there: 

First off, my name is Nelson, and I'm trying to advance in this wonderful watch repair world (as a hobby, not as a career :-). I recently bought an Elma Super Elite machine with some wiring problems, and I can't seem to find how to wire the heating element. Should I cut the black wire coming from the wall plug and connect each end to one of the white cables coming from the heater? I saw some remnants of the old wiring and that seems to be the case, but I don't know if that even makes sense. As you guys may have already guessed, I have ZERO knowledge in electricity/electronics, and would very much appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks a ton in advance.

Nelson. 

Show us lots of pictures of the current state of your machine and we will try to help.  Do you own a multimeter?

[rolius]

On 12/30/2020 at 7:12 PM, Naing said:

 

Hi Naing, Did you resolve your Elma Junior problem?

Mine is not working and would like to see a working mechanism. Maybe you or someone else can help?