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Help, please with watch gaining time


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I would be most grateful for some help with a watch that I have been working on.  The watch is an Elgin wrist watch, serial number C453730, that I bought in a not running condition.  It has 17 jewels and all the original parts are there.  I cleaned and lubed the watch and when reassembled, IT RAN!  My success was short lived, however, because it gained about three hours per day.  I moved the adjustment lever located over the hairspring, all the way toward the "S" but that made no difference whatever.  One positive aspect is that the watch is consistent in it's time gain, always three hours a day.  I have included a picture.  Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

Bill

Augusta, Georgia, USA

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Its hard to tell from the pictures but you need to closely inspect it under a loop, are you sure you have not got two coils of the hairspring between the regulator pin that would cause such a massive gain. It almost looks to me like you have the overcoil and outer coil of the hairspring going through the regulator.

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I suggest you have a very close look at the balance and hairspring. It could still be dirty. Make sure you always demagnetise the movement before starting work on it. If you do not have anti magnetic screwdrivers or tweezers, you should also demagnetise those as well. If you get into the habit of this each time, it could save you a lot of time and hassle.   

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Could be a hairspring problem as suggested. When it was taken out of the movement was it perfectly coiled/round or did you notice any bends ?

Also, you adjusted the regulator but that one cannot correct such a big time inaccuracy. If it was a few minutes then you could fix it through the regulator.

Best to keep it in the middle for now so that it won't mess up your diagnostics.

One other issue is that the hairspring might be out of beat. You can control that one through the 2nd stud near the regulator. (it's close to the screw in your photo) Did you somehow move that by mistake ?

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Did you oil the hairspring pivot when you re-assembled? Looks like the first two coils are touching, which could be due to fouling: either oil or dirt.....take the hairspring out and clean it again in Naptha. Also, demagnetize.

J

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1 hour ago, Chopin said:

One other issue is that the hairspring might be out of beat. You can control that one through the 2nd stud near the regulator. (it's close to the screw in your photo) Did you somehow move that by mistake ?

Such old watches do not have an adjustable end stud. Beat error can only be corrected rotating the HS collet. Beside, that would not cause 10,800 sec/day fast rate.

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52 minutes ago, noirrac1j said:

Did you oil the hairspring pivot when you re-assembled? Looks like the first two coils are touching, which could be due to fouling: either oil or dirt.....take the hairspring out and clean it again in Naptha. Also, demagnetize.

J

It looks like a  brequet hairspring .

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4 hours ago, rogart63 said:

It looks like a  brequet hairspring .

Yes it might be, but Breguet overcoil doesn't account for the thickness of that first coil. I'm not sure if that alone explains +3 hours a day, but I'd start with that hairspring. It doesn't look right.

 

J

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Usually when we see pictures we have a hard time seeing what we need to see. But occasionally when you look at the picture it will give you a magnifying glass. So the parts that we're looking at that we were struggling is now attached. Also slightly misleading there's an over coil which is over the outer curves we really need a sideways you but all of us on the group instantly recognize hairspring problem.

Not only are the coils stuck together but it doesn't even look like the over coil is alignment with the regulator pins it looks like it's on one side. So everyone above has given great advice you need to clean your hairspring it appears to be stuck together. Magnetism with this type of balance wheel it should be a nonmagnetic hairspring but it's they still get affected with magnetism they shouldn't be stuck together like this though.

 

hairspring not good.JPG

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What a great forum!!  I asked a question yesterday and already have 10 helpful answers.   I am working on cleaning the hairspring again, inspecting it, demagnetising the watch, and trying to figure out why the first loop of the hairspring looks as if it is stuck to the next loop.  

Thanks everyone who responded.  I will post again as soon as I have finished this work, reassembled, and let it run long enough to see if the problem is resolved.  

Thanks again,

Bill

 

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This is a follow up comment on my earlier question about my watch that was running fast.  I had many great answers, most directed toward the hairspring.  As suggested, I demagnitized the watch and all the tools to be used in the repair.  Then I removed the balance wheel, hairspring, and the plate holding the mechanism in the watch and soaked them in Naptha overnight.  Then I reassembled the watch, wound it and let it run for 24 hours.  A dramatic change had occurred.  It gained, not three hours, but three minutes!  

Thanks to all who gave me such good advise and helped put this watch back in service.

Bill in Augusta, Georgia, USA

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Bill3 said:

Yeah! sounds like you solved the problem. The 3 minute gain is fine for a watch this old, and you can probably get it to run a little tighter if you had a timegrapher, but hey.... Good job!

J

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On 1/6/2018 at 3:32 PM, Bill3 said:

I would be most grateful for some help with a watch that I have been working on.  The watch is an Elgin wrist watch, serial number C453730, that I bought in a not running condition.  It has 17 jewels and all the original parts are there.  I cleaned and lubed the watch and when reassembled, IT RAN!  My success was short lived, however, because it gained about three hours per day.  I moved the adjustment lever located over the hairspring, all the way toward the "S" but that made no difference whatever.  One positive aspect is that the watch is consistent in it's time gain, always three hours a day.  I have included a picture.  Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

Bill

Augusta, Georgia, USA

    good job, hair spring looks a little out of shape,  easy fix.  vin

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