Help with barrel arbor

[measuretwice]

I have a broken barrel arbor from a pocket watch, one of the early 20th century, low cost ones as far as I can tell.  As per the second photo, there is a square section broken off.  The section mates with a mechanism I believe limits the number of turns of the barrel.  I plan to make a new barrel arbor, I know the watch is cheap and probably not worth it, but its about building skills.

Anyway, my question is, would you at all expect that the larger diameter section with the tab for the spring is pressed onto the shaft? it sort of looks like it is, but a a few light taps didn't dislodge it.  It would make things a great deal easier if i didn't have to make that aspect of it.  Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by measuretwice

[jdm]

6 minutes ago, measuretwice said:

I plan to make a new barrel arbor, 

Do you have a lathe and mill? Making such a small and complex part is a very advanced task for today's (low) standards of watchmaking.

Edited August 26, 2017 by jdm

[Geo]

3 minutes ago, jdm said:

 Making such a small and complex part is a very advanced task for today's (low) standards of watchmaking.

What a strange statement!

[jdm]

5 minutes ago, Geo said:

What a strange statement!

Do you know of many watch repairers that do lathe work these days? Or even on this forum?

Edited August 26, 2017 by jdm

[measuretwice]

16 minutes ago, jdm said:

Making such a small and complex part is a very advanced task

We'll see, no promises, but it seems a fairly straight forward turning job (famous last words, right?)  Its smaller than I'm used to, but I've lots of lathes and mills and time on them and its a lot larger than stuff like balance staff pivots.

Any idea if this part comes apart?

Edited August 26, 2017 by measuretwice

[rogart63]

If it's pressed on it probably is pressed on by heating one of the parts and the other one is cold. Making a very tight fit. No idea how to remove them thought. 

Todays watchmakers is probably not into making parts like this but the machines of today

 would be much better.  

[Lambchop]

@measuretwice The barrel arbor hooking isn't pressed on- it is machined integral to the piece.. don't pick at it any further! This piece would take a GOOD couple of hours to draw up, machine, modify to fit,  heat treat and polish. 

@jdm Yes- me! 12 yrs working with Schaublin 70's (alongside other nice machinery) every day as a precision prototype engineer for industry.  (also an MBHI watchmaker)

 

[jdm]

1 minute ago, Lambchop said:

 

@jdm Yes- me! 12 yrs working with Schaublin 70's (alongside other nice machinery) every day as a precision prototype engineer for industry.  (also an MBHI watchmaker)

Will love to see your work posted here! So far the only one that consistently does that is szbalogh, and he doesn't even have a lathe!

[Lambchop]

I have an Instagram page- I put all kinds of things I am up to on there. Look out for more horology on there as it's been mainly other things lately.

Instagram.  @james__lamb 

 

 

[oldhippy]

The hook is part of the main piece. Good luck if you intend to make it.

[clockboy]

The question is can it can be made the answer yes, BUT is it economical to make it NO. The time required will far out way the value of the watch. But a nice project for a enthusiast. 

[clockboy]

12 hours ago, jdm said:

Do you know of many watch repairers that do lathe work these days? Or even on this forum?

I have a lathe (Star) but not a milling machine. Not many members have lathes because of the extra space required. There are however plenty of watchmakers who still make watch parts, balance staffs etc. If you purchase a BHI mag in the ads section there are many offering their services.

[jdm]

37 minutes ago, clockboy said:

There are however plenty of watchmakers who still make watch parts, balance staffs etc. If you purchase a BHI mag in the ads section there are many offering their services.

That must be in the UK, a country that is ahead when it comes to small manufacturing and services. In my country I've seen "watch repairers" not taking work that consisted in pushing out a broken bracelet pin from a Swiss watch. As mentioned, this is an age of replacing watch parts, if that much even. If this forum can teach and show otherwise, then it will become a real asset.

[oldhippy]

There is a big difference between a watch repairer and a watchmaker. A qualified watchmaker providing he/she have the correct tools would be able to make the part. A qualified watch repairer would find it extremely difficult even with the tools.   

I learned my trade and became a watchmaker clockmaker. I was lucky the workshop was set up to make parts.

 

[vinn3]

a collection of tools Doth not a watchmaker Make.!

[rogart63]

I don't recommend that you hammer to hard. Tried on an old one and this is what happens . Look like it could be 2 pieces before i started. It's very hard as it is hardened. 

[measuretwice]

thanks for help, one piece it is.   From sure one piece makes the job more challenging.   I didn't mean to sound flippant on making it but I've been machining for a long time and have a lot of equipment so pretty much any part is just a matter of figuring out the sequence of events and work holding.  The challenge of this stuff is everything is so small which creates new challenges (perhaps why I'm attracted to it)

I've a small BCA mill/jig borer that would be ideal (has a built in rotary table), but its currently apart as I'm making a new spindle for it (hardened and ground with super precision bearings).  In the middle of that, the internal grinder needed a rebuild, then I felt the motor needed balancing so started working on an acelerometer based dynamic balancing thing, blah blah blah.  Story of my hobby life, make something to make something else in seemingly endless spiral.  But, its all just for fun and learning not money, else the part would most definitely not be worth it and I'd spend the weekend watching sports like normal people.

I'll either wait until the BCA is done, or make a small collet block to take 8 or 10 mm collets and set it up on a rotary table on a full sized mill.  Thanks again for the help!

 

 

Edited August 27, 2017 by measuretwice

[Geo]

Measurthrice and gang warily! :-)

[StuartBaker104]

There's a step by step guide to making one in DeCarle's book, The Watchmaker's Lathe. Send me a pm with your email address and I'll scan the pages over to you.

 

[measuretwice]

thanks for the offer Stuart, but I have that book