Timex Electric Won't Run With New Battery

[Geo]

Given that it's a global forum, you were pretty close. :)

[clockwatcher]

There's no way I'm washing my Dynabeat in paraffin CB!:)

[Marc]

With all due respect CB I think you have missed the point. If Timex never intended their watches to be serviced then why did they publish service manuals and bulletins, and market service parts kits for most of their calibres?

 

This was the point I was trying to make about servicing in the "Swiss tradition". Timex adopted a different approach not just to construction but also to maintenance. They recognised that nobody was going to spend 10x the purchase price of a new watch on a service so they came up with a simpler and quicker solution. That doesn't mean that they can't or were not intended to be serviced, simply that a different methodology needs to be employed.

 

Like I said, the fact that so many beaten and abused (because they were so cheap) examples can be revived with just a half hour service is testimony to the design philosophy.

 

I believe that the problem with Timex mechanicals lay not with the watches, but with watchmakers refusal to adopt different procedures which they considered to be inferior, regardless of how appropriate the new techniques were for the particular watch.

[clockwatcher]

Right you early birds in the UK, moving away from watches for a minute, today the thermometer is predicted to climb into the section marked FRAZZLE!

If you're a bit thin on top, like me, and you're outside, whack a hat on! Slap a bit of factor 20 around the sticky-out bits and drink plenty. If that means nipping into the nearest Dundee pub, so be it!

For the gardeners amongst us, go and water while it's still coolish.

That is the end of the weather warning!

[oldhippy]

Not true about watchmakers refusing to adopt a different procedure. Timex made the cheap movements so watchmakers couldn't repair them. You couldn't get parts for Timex watches. That is why all stockist were issued with a price list, address labels and repair tickets and God knows what so you sent the watch back to them.
I'd like to know how would you take apart a cheap movement with no screws but with rivets that are closed over by machine and aren't intended to be opened. not only open it repair it and put it back together. I'll tell you, you couldn't.

[Marc]

"If you sent a Timex watch back to them they would replace the movement or replace the whole watch."

 

This is quite a common practise within a lot of manufacturing industries. If an item is returned to the factory it is often replaced as a unit because the cost of stripping down, diagnosing, repairing, and then reassembling far out weighs the cost of lifting a complete new unit off the assembly line or out of stock, plus the time period that the customer is without the item is significantly reduced. Generally speaking the failed item that has been replaced then goes into the company's QC department for the failure to be investigated and any lessons regarding design or manufacturing processes learned. As such the failed item has a value to the manufacturer. 

And this is not just limited to cheap products, I believe the manufacturers recommendations regarding the servicing of the Dubois-Depraz chrono modules found in many high end chronographs is to return to base for a swap.

 

 

"Even the buttons never screwed onto the stem they were just pushed on."

 

It's true that for some Timex calibres the stems were made and supplied with the crown permanently fitted. Although this meant that generic replacement crowns couldn't be used, it did mean that if a watchmaker ordered the correct Timex replacement, there was no fettling or fitting required to get it all to fit and function correctly, entirely in accordance with Timex's philosophy of making life easier for the watchmaker.

 

"You couldn't get parts for Timex watches"

 

 

I wonder what these were for then.

I got them in a job lot from the disposal of an old watchmakers estate. He worked out of Aldeburgh in Suffolk in the 60's and 70's and only gave up on watch repair in the 80's when the quartz revolution seemed to reduce the work to battery changes and strap adjustments.

Incidentally, the Timex 21 stems are, as the packet says, fully finished, complete with a thread all the way to the end, ready for a screw on crown.

 

"I'd like to know how would you take apart a cheap movement with no screws but with rivets that are closed over by machine and aren't intended to be opened. not only open it repair it and put it back together. I'll tell you, you couldn't."

 

Have a look here;

http://timex.digidep.net/manuals/

 

Service manuals and bulletins for over 40 different Timex calibres.

[clockboy]

With all due respect CB I think you have missed the point. If Timex never intended their watches to be serviced then why did they publish service manuals and bulletins, and market service parts kits for most of their calibres?

 

This was the point I was trying to make about servicing in the "Swiss tradition". Timex adopted a different approach not just to construction but also to maintenance. They recognised that nobody was going to spend 10x the purchase price of a new watch on a service so they came up with a simpler and quicker solution. That doesn't mean that they can't or were not intended to be serviced, simply that a different methodology needs to be employed.

 

Like I said, the fact that so many beaten and abused (because they were so cheap) examples can be revived with just a half hour service is testimony to the design philosophy.

 

I believe that the problem with Timex mechanicals lay not with the watches, but with watchmakers refusal to adopt different procedures which they considered to be inferior, regardless of how appropriate the new techniques were for the particular watch.

The point is I have some of the Timex service sheets & If my memory serves me well the cleaning procedure recommended is not good & I suspect thats why watch repairers do not like Timex.The correct & best way to clean a watch is to remove all parts clean inspect re-assemble & lubricate. 

[Marc]

The point is that it is not true to say that Timex watches "were never made to be serviced". They were, and Timex published information on precisely how they were made to be serviced, and supplied service parts for that purpose.

 

That is not to say that the Timex service procedures were the only ones that could be applied, and I'll wager that many watchmakers felt, as you do, that the Timex method was in some way inadequate, and therefor a poor substitute for "proper" methods. This would almost certainly lead to a belief that they were not really meant to be serviced at all.

 

However, the "proper" way to service a watch is also the expensive way to service a watch, and that is precisely what Timex was not about. They developed calibres, and processes for servicing those calibres, that were, in their view (as the manufacturer) adequate, and that would keep the cost of servicing down.

 

You can't even argue that Timex were trying to increase the failure rate of their movements and so drum up more sales as people replaced watches that had failed due to inadequate servicing, as cheaper servicing would mean that people would be more inclined to get it done, and faults detected and corrected before they became failures. Also, increased failure in a brand, even when the the manufacturers service procedures had been rigidly adhered to, would lead to poor brand reputation and a reduction in sales.

 

No, the processes recommended by Timex for their calibres were (and still are) adequate for the way that those movements were designed.

 

This is kind of what I was getting at when I referred to watchmakers being reluctant to adopt different processes.

The full strip down, clean, inspect, and lubricate service is the only appropriate approach for movements designed with that kind of attention and budget, which covers the vast majority of mechanical watches, and in those instances I wouldn't advocate anything less.

However, it's horses for courses, and Timex movements were designed differently with different requirements.

 

 

Perhaps an analogy would help illustrate here. After just about every race, practice session, set up session, qualifying session, etc, a F1 car engine and transmission is stripped, cleaned inspected, and then put back together again with fresh oil (Swiss approach). My Ford Mondeo gets its oil and filters changed every 10k miles (Timex method). I would be mad to adopt F1 procedures for my Mondi, and an F1 team would last less than 5 seconds if they left the same oil in for 10k miles.

 

Don't get me wrong here, I don't champion Timex watches because they are the best that you can get. But I do think that they do what they were designed to do  (cheap time keeping that was also cheap to maintain) extra-ordinarily well.

 

Each to their own though  :thumbsu:

[oldhippy]

They say you learn something new every day. I never knew you could get service manuals for Timex let alone parts. As far as I'm concerned if it comes apart then you take it apart that is something you can't do with some Timex movements. The only service sheets I had were for Longines  because we were agents and I was inundated with their watches. 

[Geo]

Good old Timex, clunk click every tick! :)

[oldhippy]

Good old Timex, clunk click every tick! :)

:D

[bobm12]

I have a feeling, being new at this and reading what has been said, that availability of parts and manuals might have been a regional thing as we all know that different companies target different regions for different purposes regarding their products. An example is when technology or supply routes are not "economically" viable for a certain region or country. Just a thought!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[SeikoWatch]

On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2015 at 11:43 AM, clockboy said:

Apart from testing the coil with a meter it,s difficult to determine what the fault is. Normally I would suggest changing the movement but being a Timex that I would have thought not a possibility. I don,t know how easy the Timex is to strip & clean or if it,s possible.

I don,t know what caliber you have but this PDF,s might help 

Timex SB101.pdf

Timex Electric_Manual.pdf

Hello Clockboy , yes i'm not often here for many reasons but , if you have the both pdf you mention here ( they are dead ) , can i have them ? i have 2 Timex with a electric movement . Don't know the number . thanks in advance

 

 

[SeikoWatch]

On ‎30‎/‎06‎/‎2015 at 5:19 AM, Marc said:

"If you sent a Timex watch back to them they would replace the movement or replace the whole watch."

 

This is quite a common practise within a lot of manufacturing industries. If an item is returned to the factory it is often replaced as a unit because the cost of stripping down, diagnosing, repairing, and then reassembling far out weighs the cost of lifting a complete new unit off the assembly line or out of stock, plus the time period that the customer is without the item is significantly reduced. Generally speaking the failed item that has been replaced then goes into the company's QC department for the failure to be investigated and any lessons regarding design or manufacturing processes learned. As such the failed item has a value to the manufacturer. 

And this is not just limited to cheap products, I believe the manufacturers recommendations regarding the servicing of the Dubois-Depraz chrono modules found in many high end chronographs is to return to base for a swap.

 

 

"Even the buttons never screwed onto the stem they were just pushed on."

 

It's true that for some Timex calibres the stems were made and supplied with the crown permanently fitted. Although this meant that generic replacement crowns couldn't be used, it did mean that if a watchmaker ordered the correct Timex replacement, there was no fettling or fitting required to get it all to fit and function correctly, entirely in accordance with Timex's philosophy of making life easier for the watchmaker.

 

"You couldn't get parts for Timex watches"

 

 

I wonder what these were for then.

I got them in a job lot from the disposal of an old watchmakers estate. He worked out of Aldeburgh in Suffolk in the 60's and 70's and only gave up on watch repair in the 80's when the quartz revolution seemed to reduce the work to battery changes and strap adjustments.

Incidentally, the Timex 21 stems are, as the packet says, fully finished, complete with a thread all the way to the end, ready for a screw on crown.

 

"I'd like to know how would you take apart a cheap movement with no screws but with rivets that are closed over by machine and aren't intended to be opened. not only open it repair it and put it back together. I'll tell you, you couldn't."

 

Have a look here;

http://timex.digidep.net/manuals/

 

Service manuals and bulletins for over 40 different Timex calibres.

Hi we need the password ? i don't have them  so please can i have the password ? thank you in advance .

[RyMoeller]

Ah this thread is classic!  I couldn't help but laugh when @oldhippy suggested taking a hammer to Timex watches for stress relief.  I've actually read this very same sentiment on other forums!

My own belief is that Timex probably had different classes of movement- some which were repairable and others which were not. Few met the exacting standards of a Swiss watch though.

I picked up a few Timex Disney character watches for repair since they cost nothing but I knew they would be the Everest of watch repair (well at least until I get my hands on a minute repeater).  I've still not summited that mountain though!

[MilTimeCan]

On 2/14/2015 at 8:04 AM, eyebidder said:

My Timex Electric stopped so I put in a new battery #357(LR44) but I can't get it to start up. I pulled out the crown and then set the time but it still won't start. Do these need some sort of 'jump start' electrically?

 

Thanks for any assistance!

 

eyebidder

Have you tried a different battery ?

as in just a bit bigger but fits in the battery cavity, sometimes the cavity has worn out over time preventing contact with the case back, a few old quartz models needed contact with the case.

All Silver Oxide button cells put out 1.55 V, the thickness, height and circumference is what varies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button_cell 

I have an old SAK watch with an ETA movement, the cavity is so worn out I can't even identify the movement number.

   

[dadistic]

I'm sharing the Timex documentation here, for now.

Timex Documentation

If you have problems accessing let me know.

Cheers!

[kathey]

On 2/14/2015 at 8:26 AM, Geo said:

Try giving it a bit of a rotary shake for want of better description. There is an electrical contact that energises the coil on the balance and if you shake it as described it should rotate the balance wheel and make contact allowing the watch to start............unless the fine contact wire is broken or bent.

thank you! it worked!  so happy. 2.22. 2020.  I've had this watch since 1978. new battery. nothing.  gave it shake. viola!

[DouglasSkinner]

On 2/14/2015 at 11:43 AM, clockboy said:

Apart from testing the coil with a meter it,s difficult to determine what the fault is. Normally I would suggest changing the movement but being a Timex that I would have thought not a possibility. I don,t know how easy the Timex is to strip & clean or if it,s possible.

I don,t know what caliber you have but this PDF,s might help 

 

 

 

Timex SB101.pdf 1.15 MB · 209 downloads

 

 

Timex Electric_Manual.pdf 895.55 kB · 250 downloads

 

May I ask what kind of meter I should use to test the coil?  I'm having what I believe are coil problems with my watch.  Also need to check for completed circuit.

[HectorLooi]

11 hours ago, DouglasSkinner said:

May I ask what kind of meter I should use to test the coil?  I'm having what I believe are coil problems with my watch.  Also need to check for completed circuit.

You can use a digital multimeter set to 2Kohm range. But it won't be easy to do a measurement as 1 of the contacts is hidden behind the impulse jewel.

I have not come across an open coil in a Timex Electric so far, unless the coil has been physically damaged. I would instead spray contact cleaner on the contacts, put a battery in and give the balance a spin to see if balance gets any power.