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AP1875

Chinese clone horia tool

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I would like a jeweling tool to practice correcting end shakes and also to install jewels. The Horia tool with a set of pushers/anvils is out of my budget at the moment.

I noticed a Chinese version

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000261581571.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000013.1.5ee15a59YGNywJ&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.146401.0&scm_id=1007.13339.146401.0&scm-url=1007.13339.146401.0&pvid=c3dcc468-4930-4773-bc9c-319ccf7b9847

At first glance they look the same and being Chinese the price difference is huge, less than 10% of the Swiss version but too expensive to take a wild punt. Some Chinese tools and equipment i have purchased have been absolutely brilliant. Does anybody have any experience with this tool?

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Complete from the US, box, vintage look and all.
https://www.ebay.it/itm/Seitz-Jeweling-tool-set-with-reamers-pushers-anvils/274079345666

about £300, maybe use a reshipper to lessen customs charges.

I have nothing against the Chinese, it's just that in this case their value proposition is not that compelling.

Edited by jdm

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if you don't like the Chinese version can you return it?

Visually it looks really really close to the Horia. One of the problems I found from buying Chinese stuff that visually what you think you're purchasing isn't always entirely what you get.

Then for the Seitz versus Horia tool? if you're going to insert new jewels you're going to have to acquire the Seitz tool as it has the reamers that you're going to need. Then it will let you push the jewels in so one tool does it all. But the Horia tool is so much nicer for pushing the jewels and adjusting end shake. So the absolute best world would be to have both of them.

 

https://www.horia.ch/en/Products/Jewellling-Setting-staking-tools.html

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1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

if you don't like the Chinese version can you return it?

Visually it looks really really close to the Horia. One of the problems I found from buying Chinese stuff that visually what you think you're purchasing isn't always entirely what you get.

Then for the Seitz versus Horia tool? if you're going to insert new jewels you're going to have to acquire the Seitz tool as it has the reamers that you're going to need. Then it will let you push the jewels in so one tool does it all. But the Horia tool is so much nicer for pushing the jewels and adjusting end shake. So the absolute best world would be to have both of them.

 

https://www.horia.ch/en/Products/Jewellling-Setting-staking-tools.html

Thanks for the info John. This is the first jewel I need to remove. It's from a Rolex clone movement. I have another scrap movement I can source a jewel from. Will the Chinese horia tool not suffice to complete this task? 

20191208_040613.jpg

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The tools mentioned here so far all probably do the same job, but they are not exactly the same. Since I do not know why the differences myself I will make a summary

  • Seitz shown above all have a (detachable) lever, and I suppose, 4mm pushers and anvils. Some use guidance is provided (attached)
  • Chinese doesn't have a lever.
  • Horia has various types:
    - No lever, 3mm or 4mm spindle (the latter is more "standard" I think), regular of fine thread, that I can probably understand.
    - With lever, come in two types: free or guided spindle, not sure why to chose one over the other.
    - With lever and bigger spindles.
    Their boxed sets include both first two types, as if the serious Watchmaker couldn't do without.

But for the amateur and/or budget minded professional the best deal is always a basic tool on Ebay, then add the bits as needed.



 

2001_J31073.pdf

Edited by jdm

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13 hours ago, AP1875 said:

Thanks for the info John. This is the first jewel I need to remove. It's from a Rolex clone movement. I have another scrap movement I can source a jewel from. Will the Chinese horia tool not suffice to complete this task?

both tools will work fine.

Normally when people are replacing broken jewels when fitting a new  jewel  it will more than likely be sized differently  which is why you would need to  ream out the hole for proper fit. As you already have a proper replacement jewel that will not need to be done.

lever versus micrometer head?  Conceivably with the lever you'll have much more pushing force.   The micrometer head in my opinion  gives you much more precise  adjustments..

then the 3 mm versus the 4 mm? The older horia tool tool that I have has a spindle of 3 mm with a base of 4 mm..  The Seitz set both the base and the spindle are 4 mm. So for compatibility reasons it's nice  to have everything at 4 mm for interchangeability..

 

 

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2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

both tools will work fine.

Normally when people are replacing broken jewels when fitting a new  jewel  it will more than likely be sized differently  which is why you would need to  ream out the hole for proper fit. As you already have a proper replacement jewel that will not need to be done.

lever versus micrometer head?  Conceivably with the lever you'll have much more pushing force.   The micrometer head in my opinion  gives you much more precise  adjustments..

then the 3 mm versus the 4 mm? The older horia tool tool that I have has a spindle of 3 mm with a base of 4 mm..  The Seitz set both the base and the spindle are 4 mm. So for compatibility reasons it's nice  to have everything at 4 mm for interchangeability..

 

 

That's great thanks. I think i'll give the chinese one a go.

A question regarding changing jewels. Are you saying if i didn't have a replacement i would not find the exact sized jewel to fit so i would have to ream out the hole and fit one with a larger diameter? The inside measurement would always have to be the same though, in this case for the centre wheel to pass through.

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1 hour ago, AP1875 said:

A question regarding changing jewels. Are you saying if i didn't have a replacement i would not find the exact sized jewel to fit so i would have to ream out the hole and fit one with a larger diameter? The inside measurement would always have to be the same though, in this case for the centre wheel to pass through.

this is watch repair anything is possible? This means that if you look on the catalog  pages of the attached PDF you may find the exact size jewel you're looking for. But is also the possibility of the various watch companies using their own jewels and the outside diameters might not correspond to the jewel sizes found on the catalog page.

5006 A_a_F Seitz jewels.pdf

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2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

this is watch repair anything is possible? This means that if you look on the catalog  pages of the attached PDF you may find the exact size jewel you're looking for. But is also the possibility of the various watch companies using their own jewels and the outside diameters might not correspond to the jewel sizes found on the catalog page.

5006 A_a_F Seitz jewels.pdf 2.03 MB · 0 downloads

i bet those sets aren't cheap. i'm sure i can order individual ones from Cousins though.

Next problem.... what is best best way to measure the inside diameter of a jewel, they're so small

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If you go to the link below scroll down to the section titled Joseph School of Watch Making And realistically download the entire book because it has really useful information. But you looking at section titled Unit 9b - Friction Jeweling. That is going to answer a lot of questions maybe not all of them but that would get you started.

https://www.mybulova.com/vintage-bulova-catalogs

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