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people be honest.... Swatch is evil for the watchmakers and repairers, BUT not everything in watches from Switzerland is from the Swatch-Group. As far as i know, Selitta got sacked by Swatch as a Movement-Assembler for them and they started to produce Movements in their own Name with slight Modifications. As far as i know, they sell Parts to the Market for their Movements. In most cases, if a ETA-Movement fails, it is a valid Option to replace it with a Selitta Movement, which i consider the Solution for this Mess with the Swatch-Group...... I have no Connection to anybody at Selitta, but being a Swiss-Guy, i still like to have Swiss-Made Watches, but not from the Swatch-Group. ok ? regards, Ernst

It would be nice if Sellita stood up to the block and advertised their products as hard as swatch. We all know what brands use the swatch movements but it’s not that commonly known which watches use SELLITA movements, that way the public could avoid the SWATCH brands, The parts availability and service data being good points to put forward. I have when asked for advice on a watch purchase told the customer to avoid the Swatch brands because of the high cost off parts and servicing in-house. I think they ,SWATCH are trading on the known names which in the past were quality pieces and people were used to them and therefore bought them on that basis only to find out later when requiring a service it was out of their reach and the watch was deposited in a drawer lo languish un loved and un used for many a year

Venus 206, super rare.

Here's a very interesting pod with Sebastien Chaulmontet who is Head of Innovation at Sellita. In this pod, he states that Sellita sells its products, movements and parts, to anyone who wants them. Whenever someone asked me for advice about which Swiss watch to buy I have always recommended them to go with a brand that uses the Sellita movements, such as Oris, TAG Heuer, Sinn (German), Raymond Weil, and so on and stay away from Swatch owned brands such as Omega, Longines, and Tissot. There are also a lot of amazing micro brands (not sure that's the correct term) using the Sellita movements such as Stowa and Christopher Ward. Had Swatch been a car manufacturer they would never have gotten away with it, and as far as I know the same laws apply to all manufacturers of consumer products in Europe.

Getting back to the issue which is us guys repairing or just enjoying horological exploits. The big worry now is how sound is Cousins as company going forward. The of cost if this 8 year legal battle will be astronomical. Cut backs will happen noticed already how the Cousins catalogue is half its size this year. The main supplier going out of business will hit the UK horological community in a big way. On the Brexit issue it was about a sovereign country being able to make its own laws and trade with any country in the world. I cannot see what was wrong with this. For those who wish to re join the cost would be very high indeed.

I thought this would be interesting for us, I did. Tom

I'm going to be either shot or banished from the site but I don't understand why adhesives aren't used. Modern adhesives are brilliant, aeroplanes are stuck together with them. Ideally the hole in the balance wheel will accommodate a rivet but if not, what do you do? Replace the balance wheel, roller table etc? They may not be available,so glue them? Worth a try. It was good knowing you all, hehe.

It's a deep irony that what made those brands known and appreciated, quality and affordable serviceability, are now exploited for (what I hope to be) short-term gains, and it would seem Swatch is moving to use more and more plastic parts which in my opinion is a kind of fraud towards the customers as it's not advertised. In the below video, Kalle Slaap exposes one such "fraud".

Just one more greedy act by Swatch. They started a number of years ago here in the US..cutting off supplies to watchmakers that could build complications that many Swatch houses couldn't even touch. Old school masters who had gone through some of the most prestigious houses in the world. Otto Frei has some statements on their page about it. I tell all my customers to avoid new Swiss watches like the plague,..unless they just want an older one in their collection that still has some parts out on the market, or they have really deep pockets and don't mind waiting months and paying through the nose to get it back. Plenty of others to choose from..IE Seiko,..or other non-swiss brands Even a number of Chinese brands are catching up with the Swiss,..and I think that in time, their actions will be their downfall

…so I’ve been occupied with an uncooperative Venus but here’s one I’m calling done. A JW Benson from the country auction house. The shipping to the states cost more than the watch. The flabby before… …silver ya? It was gummed up but actually ran fairly well @ 250 amplitude. fhf 31 which I discovered was not extremely common. The barrel arbor hung on to half of the screw and twas clear there was lots of rubbing so I managed to find nos for each. There was the tar sticky thang supposed to be subbing for a dial foot- what was that? I kept the crystal- lots of rubbing and some old school GS glue. Someone swapped in a fabu alloy mainspring so I kept that too. A bit of wrestling to make the hour hand straight(er)- apparently the second hand had it’s way with it… Cleaned up with over 300 amp now… …new footie… …I thought about downsizing the stem/replacement crown but given this one’s had a long life and the purchase on the crown is easy so I left it. The Hirsch strap cost more than the watch… …imma keep this one. It will get wrist time and lots of interest from a US audience unfamiliar with JW Benson…

I was just about to adk that, probably they have unnecessary waiting lists to make their watches appear more exclusive than they actually are.

I must admit i like the look of the Seamaster professional 300, after Brosnen's Goldeneye every guy that wants to look cool wants one. One of my mates didn't change the battery in his quartz version soon enough and caused himself over £500 worth of damage, that was around 10 years ago, the cost now must be double that. I no longer want one

I bought my Seamaster Coaxial before knowing anything about the Swatch group practices. I looked at all the major brands but couldn't find anything to my eye which was as aesthetically pleasing. I love the watch, hate the group. In the next few years, I'll have to suck up the service cost, ouch.

Mostly just Swatch, Selitta is a good option and have a lot of experience in assembly, since the 50s and apparently will sell to anybody. Though they have had issues with certain movements in the past. There is an vid interview somewhere here in the forum with thier management. Its lack of information to Joe public, would be nice to see a lot more of it in mainstream media.

It looks to be plate 1520 and there are 4 with that number but they all take the same torsion spring 0.003” Horolovar. Dell

just as a reminder this watch is a Swatch group product. This will bring up a problem like spare parts and technical information. that I found some links to some information on when I talk about your watch and some of the technical and basically your watch is equivalent to 2834-2 for which I'm attaching the technical sheets. But equivalent does not mean exactly the same you want to do a search on the group for C07 as we discussed this watch before including the technical differences how it's supposed to be regulated and basically because it's watch group there is no parts availability. https://calibercorner.com/eta-caliber-c07-xxx/ https://www.chrono24.com/magazine/eta-movements-from-the-2824-2-to-the-powermatic-80-p_80840/ https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/h-10-movement-details.4636991/ eta CT_2834-2_FDE_481857_15.pdf

Birth year (1975) Seiko DX.

Yes, it's the same (old) song and it's getting worse & worse;

Found this in my stuff. Very interesting movement. Gonna put it toward the front of the queue for servicing. I will plan to document the process...start to finish and then post (cross your fingers). Sorry for the lousy picture...better ones will follow when I go to work on it. Here is an article about the Durabalance

Benson also used Smiths movements.

I’m a fan of modern adhesives. Dental glue is horology glue. Given the gloomy outlook for replacement parts we’re headed for a Havana honey future anyways…

…check the bench for the missing cap jewels . Seriously but not seriously I’m nominating you for best cinematography…

If there was no other option i would go along with that.

The saying " who dares wins " comes to mind. If you dont try something you wont know the outcome of your attempt. Mark the position of the roller on the staff

the reason I asked about the movement number is Elgin had a blue notebook which you probably have lurking around the house someplace. In the notebook they have service information for the automatic watch and I think they have something on the balance wheel in their. then yes the balance wheel is really interesting. something to confuse the watchmaker was never seen such a thing.

yes as we know it's quite a common problem when stems go bad the whole watch just disintegrates it's a very strange thing isn't it? Of course the local watchmaker never expects that anyone else is going to examine his handiwork and contemplate the insanity of this person. I don't suppose you have accessed in a test equipment? then this is a really vintage Rhonda movement and I am attaching the tech sheet. More than likely changing the circuit would solve the problem it's probably the electrical problems someplace. this is because typically slow quartz watches are mechanical issues and the only thing that can make a quartz watch run fast is a circuit issue. Then quartz watches even for regulation can't be regulated for minutes per hour it's usually seconds per day. Or really nice watches seconds per month. But never seconds per hour. Ronda_373-375-377_TECH.pdf

it's good that you pick the right staff because what if you didn't pick the right staff? a for instance let's pick on 984 if we go to link below we see a parts list at the very top you see the balance completes those it's easy to narrow down which one you have butted a case you can see that there are how many? so six balance completes now let's go see how many balance staffs for this watch. then there's 11 different balance staffs. The purpose the exercise here is for me to point out that especially older watches and through an evolution and there's lots of balance staffs. http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=AS_984 then there are various reference books where you can look up each of the staffs I get their dimensions which I'm too lazy to do so instead although it's this website down below. On the top you can pick whether you're looking for a staff or stem to nice site because it has dimensions. thinking of dimensions if you're going to order a staff here's how they do it then I only picking on the first number in your list the 984 they only have four of them and it looks like the most popular one is the first one perhaps? then occasionally the numbers are close enough such probably this staff. then as you click on them to bring up something like this now while we're here let's see what the other ones are second one looks like it's basically identical except J is a tiny little bigger. Which does bring up a peculiar question which I need to quote something up above but let's finish looking at the rest of the staff sizing. as we can see the next one has some minor variations in size. last one minor variations in size again this brings up a minor problem if you measured the old and in the image it looks definitely enlarged then well you could have a problem. You notice in two of the different staffs the dimension J ranges from 0.85 and another one that's 0.90. https://www.balancestaffs.com/about.php

Thank you for your introduction and welcome to this friendly forum. We all look forward to your contributions and continued involvement. Did you order Chinese tools, because if you did you are not the only one that is sent total crap.

Hello and welcome from Leeds. We're here to help.

Thanks. I forgot I had a plastic movement holder, will try that out. Was also thinking I’d wait to install the sweep second hand until after removing the stem to help avoid getting it caught up and bent.

Definitely randy, hopefully greed bites them in the ass.

Place the movement dial-down in a movement holder.

Yes. If that's not what you are experiencing...start looking for something rubbing. A 1st guess is that one of the hands is rubbing against the hole in the center of the dial. Especially if you now have lower amplitude in face up/ face down positions.

although not in this case. It was the Lugano Convention and its deficiencies that allowed a Swiss court decision in the first place. This isnt really a Brexit issue at all. A decision that affects both the EU and the UK should never have been heard in Switzerland. I bet the authorised service centres in the UK are pretty pleased. It's a massive shame, though; I believe watch owners should be able to choose to have their watch serviced by whoever they trust.

Hi guys I think that old hippy is correct, it opens the gates for china to manufacture aftermarket spare parts. considering that they already do work on behalf of the Swiss I guess this decision gives the a little more legitimacy to tool up and I am sure they will take advantage of the situation either with or without the blessing of the Swiss watch industry Having read about the protectionist machinations of the Swiss in the history of Europe they were the only ones to get fat at everybody else’s expense. I think the outcome could have been guessed at but , fair play to Cousins UK for standing up to them. Now the question, will everybody boycott Swiss watches and Swatch, no way they will still fill their coffers. Me I stick with the Japanese once renowned for cheap shitty watches who came good through industrial effort and don’t for get the Russians that most dismiss as low grade crap. Wouldn’t buy a swatch product ever how about you all.? a

Isn't that the same guy who told Zelenskyy to escalate the war with Russia/Putin when they already had a peace deal? 2 years later and we have half a million young Ukranian boys dead. He doesn't seem very clever...

glad it worked out, those ESA movements are obsolete but new old stock is still out there, now that you know the make/model you could also do a cross reference to see if something more current would line up with the dial feet and hands...for future use if needed

For cleaning up some dials, black for tough finished grubby dials , white for light cleaning of delicate dials and pink for inbetween .

Hi John, we have this picture: For sure there is no point to try to measure the hub diameter, it is riveted , in other words deformed, enlarged. And, the staff is not designed to break when punching it out, so punching it out has enlarged the balance arm hole. Probably You have not read about soldering balance staffs for the same reason that I have not read for it too - there is not such thing whitten in a book, or at least I don't know. But, I have done it in my youth and it works. And, may be it is the best move for the OP in this situation. Actually, I have done many other things that are not written in a book. For some of them now I regret, and for some I don't.

I saw a mention in one thread with the OP saying they could not take good photos of a watch movement they were asking about, so I thought I'd post my ultra-cheapo method: A local second hand shop had a stack of the nasty looking "clip on" lens kits for smartphones; they were priced at 50p so I got one out of curiosity. I didn't even try they for weeks, until I was struggling to take a high enough magnification of a damaged piece of jewellery, for a friend. The "macro" lens in these kits is actually amazing, it's very effective - and the full kits around only around £3 to £4 on ebay. The first photos are the particular 50p lens kit I got, and the lens I'm using from that, then examples photos, using my iphone with the macro lens in the clip and approximately centred over the camera lens. It does need a good light, and finding the exact height for best focus can be tricky sometimes, but the results are worth it. The movement is a Junghans calibre 73 from ebay:

the ramifications of putting the roller jewel in the wrong location is the watch will not be in beat and it will never run. one of things you should always check on a watch especially after replacing the balance staff is to verify that the watch visually is in beat. The above quote is telling you that and I'm attaching a picture so you can visually see what it should look like.

Pull the roller table and put it back where it should be. The position of the hairspring is (very) important too, there is often a little "pip" on the balance rim marking where the stud should line up. When in the watch, no power, the roller jewel should be in the fork slot, and the fork should be midway between the bankings.

And they wonder why I say no... When I got home from work: "I borrowed your tweezers...why do you always look like that?!?! don't worry they are fine..." Just figured out what they remind me of:

Agreed, I just use regular lithium grease, not the stuff you use on your watches

A bit of grease on the thread that the collar goes over will help a lot

I really hate assuming anything but it does look like shellac? As that is something used in watch repair they would have it available or it could just be some sort of really poor glue that just looks like shellac. oh I found a little history online of India making watches. I don't see any technical references to innovative methods of doing things which is what perhaps will call this. although there is a possibility that this is innovative repair done by somebody else after it left a factory perhaps https://watchesbysjx.com/2016/07/hmt-watches-the-rise-and-fall-of-indias-watchmaking-titan.html additional information https://thehourmarkers.com/history-has-it/hmt-watches-a-walk-down-the-memory-lane/

Yeah, that's Dr. Tillwich. I think he was the one who recreated that sorta famous Elgin synthetic oil. You can get some of the products in the US, Cas-Ker has the LGN grease, and Perrin in Canada carries the oils. And there's always Etsy Cheers!

This is a very sad day for the industry.. For most of us being amateurs the cost of replacing parts for ETA,s etc will be beyond affordability for the customers. see full statement below We have now received the decision from Judge Michael Green on whether or not the High Court has jurisdiction to hear our claim against Swatch, and sadly it is not the decision we had hoped for. As we have pointed out in previous news items (see below),the rules that Judge Green had to apply strictly prevented him from examining in any way how the Swiss Court arrived at its verdict, even if it is blatantly obvious that the verdict is wrong. As Swatch’s lawyer was summing up in the last few minutes oft he hearing, the Judge twice pinned him asking if it was alright if, as a result of the Swiss verdict, consumers had to pay 50% more for their watch repairs. After some stumbling, their lawyer’s reply was “Yes”, so I am quite sure that Judge Green left his court fully aware that the Swiss verdict does not reflect the norms of British Competition Law. However, the rules simply do not allow him to take that simple fact into account. Judge Green noted that our two arguments relating firstly to British Competition Law now being different from that of the EU, and secondly to the contention that the legality of the Authorised Service Networks has not been tested, had both been mentioned in the Swiss verdict. Because they had been mentioned, he felt that to allow us to argue them again would constitute re examining the Swiss case, and could not be allowed. As to our claim that we were denied our right to be heard because our evidence was not considered, our lawyers had argued that the evidence we provided could not have been looked at because had the Swiss Court done so, it could not have reached the conclusion that it did. In his verdict, Judge Green highlighted general statements in the Swiss verdict that evidence had been looked at, and acknowledged the arguments we made to him, but again he considered that this was re-examining the Swiss verdict, and could not be permitted. Our case has attracted considerable interest within the Legal community, and within minutes of the decision being made public we were approached for comment by one of the largest subscription news services, Global Competition Review. They asked us two very pertinent questions, and I reproduce them for you below along with our responses, as they neatly summarise the consequences arising from our case. What are the key takeaways? Enormous damage has been done to the fundamentals of UK and European Competition Law by the Swiss courts. It has always been the case that the effect on consumers and competition has to be considered in any decision making, but we now have a ruling that states even monopolists can remove wholesale markets from the supply chain without any consumer benefit based justification. Those entities looking to subvert Competition Law and exploit consumers for their own benefit will be looking at this very carefully. Has the court made the wrong decision? If so, will you appeal? The issue lies not with the High Court, but rather with cross border jurisdiction treaties that have no requirement in them for foreign jurisdictions applying UK law to take account of the Ratio Legis [a legal term for the fundamental reasoning why the law was written] of that law, and have no remedy within them for UK Courts to overcome decisions that clearly do not. After eight years of work, and a very considerable sum in legal costs, I can not begin to tell you how disappointed I am at this outcome. For the time being, there is no further route through the British Courts that Cousins can follow. However, I promised that we would fight to the end, and that promise stands. The UK is no longer part of the Lugano Convention, whose rules Judge Green has applied, and as yet nothing permanent has replaced it. The political tide turned against repair prevention by restricting supply of spare parts some time ago, and our efforts on behalf of the Watch Repair industry have resulted in high level contacts within several Government Departments. You can be sure that we will keep working to overcome this unjust situation that we now all find ourselves in. I will keep you advised. Kind regards Anthony

I never got to this...still in my TBD box with a hundred other things.

Thankyou. I've bought myself some more tools and was expecting a pry bar kit from Amazon. This arrived this morning. It's not what I was expecting hah.