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Something that is definitely not worth paying the Swiss made tax, they are a common tool in the computer/electronics world. https://www.amazon.co.uk/iFixit-EU145334-1-eu145334-1-Controller-Card/dp/B072MN9YQZ/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?adgrpid=55886526951&hvadid=606139625659&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1007366&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=4192995885423604756&hvtargid=kwd-302093795475&hydadcr=29834_2401801&keywords=spudger+tool&qid=1682237107&sr=8-3-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1 Tom

Picked up this Croton Tropartic with the blue dial yesterday. I posted it in the blue dial thread. Since then I took it out of the case and examined more closely. I now think that the gold flecking on the blue linen dial is original...it does not affect the white of the minutes/seconds markers, which actually are on top of some of the gold. Anyway several more pictures in various lighting trying to show the nice contrast between the red seconds hand and the blue dial. I dont think this had been opened in quite a while as the case back was really tightened down and gasket was hardened but easy to chip out compared to the goo of the crown gasket. Definately will be getting a new crystal.

Do the wind right. Place it in the washer. Turn the washer over and push the spring into the barrel as though it were a new spring.

Chamfer always down. If its the other way I expect teeth are worn and it is a way of getting it to work, it is very bad workmanship in other words its a bodge up.

I always set them with the chamfer down. Some movements work fine with them either way, but I recently rebuilt an Omega and found the hand setting very stiff and not smooth. I found that I'd put the setting wheel with the chamfer side up - turned it over and all was well.

No it isn't.

Love the word "spudger". If you search on ebay, spudgers are cheap as chips, e.g. 10 for £3

I have the AS 1130 "Wehrmachtswerk" UNO running like a champ (+10s/d 0.1ms beat error and around 260 degrees of swing). When it arrived it was gummed up solid, so much so that I feared the balance was damaged. I'm going to wear it for the next day or so, to let it settle down. It does need a crown, and a crystal, but otherwise it appears to be in good shape. I can't claim credit for the hatchet marks around the balance bridge screw, they were there when it arrived. Interestingly there were no service marks on the case back, so I have no idea when the scratches might have occurred. The AS 1130 is a well thought out and well constructed movement, and pretty simple to work on and the watch itself is a nice eye catching design, with its gold plated case and classic sub-dialled face. The dial is immaculate (any imperfections you see are on the crystal). The case does have a little wear on it, but nothing obvious when worn.

Here is what I use: Used some wet and dry to 'file' one end to a blade, and used a pencil sharpener to shape the other end to a point - and I get 5 spare! Link HERE

I just got this Croton Tropartic with a blue linen dial. Has an AS 1951 caliber. Haven't had time to investigate too deeply into the apparent paint loss. The seconds hand is red as on the 2nd pic; having trouble getting the color correct on the pictures. This dial is well balanced I think.

I like to lay a thin sheet of plastic film over the spring and work through it. To get the spring off I would put a large oiler at the back of the spring and just twist it, I bet that would pop it off. Here is how I attached a loose spring on a Bulova. Once i changed the angle of the oiler so that it was pushing along the long axis of the oiler it snapped right in. The plastic film also helps to maneuver the spring into place.

at one time for a brief period of time this was a popular thing to do. Replacing mechanical wristwatch movements with a quartz movement. But drop in and be done with it doesn't quite in the description. You'll have to find a quartz movement of the right size and thickness so it fits into the case and thickness part is critical so that the stem aligns with the crown. Then the used to be the issue of the dial feet but that won't be an issue here because you don't have a dial feet the deal with. They also used to make a special not sure what it was was a two-part mix remix these two things together a to make movement rings to adapt the movement but I see somebody has some generic rings that you can file. so basically if you're looking at a drop in the easy replacement I don't think that's going to happen. https://www.esslinger.com/watch-parts-refills-bestfit-movement-ring-pieces/

Well, it's finally back in the case and polished up. It's not perfect, but I'm still pretty proud of the work. It was a tremendous learning experience, and really stretched my skill set. Thank you again to everyone who helped me out along the way! And bonus penny for scale:

GuyMontag, I am beginging to doubt my common sense now. By intution one concludes , the chamfer is there to improve chance of mesh with the clutch. You don't believe me !!! ask Ross , he knows.

I have a minor confusion I wonder if something came up backwards from what I was saying? So if your barrel diameter inside is 8.97 mm obviously your winder has to be smaller than that. If a little bit of the mainspring is stuck out to get the T part into the slot then you have to accommodate the part that sticking out which as I pointed out could be at least twice as thick as the spring. So that has to be accommodated which means your winder has to have interesting properties of being big enough to hold the entire mainspring but also be small enough to hold the mainspring and the little bit that sticking out and get all of that into the barrel. oh and yes there is a tiny possibility that it can be pushed out of the ring. Normally the ring is in the middle of the mainsprings so if you can relocate the ring so it's on the edge of the mainspring. Then managed to get the T part into the slot and hold it there and then finish pushing out the mainspring I've heard of people he could get it to work. But anytime you're playing with a mainspring you should be wearing eye protection they keep from poking your eye out.

you know what I find interesting is terminology like what exactly does watchmaking mean exactly? So for instance at the first link below there is their history they been making watches for a very long time there's still making watches. personally I was think of watchmaking as individually making all the components and putting a watch together but the reality is watchmaking is also taking a movement putting it in a case. then when were looking at the website down below I notice they have a vintage category that will be the second link. Scrolling down the list of vintage wondering what that really means we get an answer the third link I've seen this kind of watch before. Like everything else on the website at least tell you who made the movement this is a EB 8800 that would definitely explain the terminology of vintage. If you look at the last two links you understand the reference a movement that was made in the 60s not made any more that I'm aware of but maybe it is. A vintage movement in a modern case which explains why it's called vintage. so what we have is a company purchases movements and cases them up that allows them the call themselves a watchmaker. In the case of their vintage calibers their purchasing odd lots or small lots of movements and casing them up. so once we grasp what the company is doing in their vintage category we can look at this movement is not Asian or counterfeit it is a real Swiss eta movement modified for Wyler to have their unique balance system and yes the balance jewel protection system they been known to use that in their watches. So it's one of their vintage movements new old stock cased up in a modern case the make something uniquely interesting. At least interesting for this discussion of why is a vintage movement in a modern case now we know. I wonder what other vintage movements they've cased up? https://www.zeno-watch.ch/about-us/history/ https://www.zeno-watch.ch/category/vintage-2/ https://www.zeno-watch.ch/product/fhb-jumping-hour-black/ http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&EB_8800 https://17jewels.info/movements/e/eb/eb-8800/

GuyMontag Another Aaaagh!. Only upside for me is that I don't think I will ever be able to afford purchase of a Bulova. Phew!

I will have say don't do it since you will likely have a more difficult time with the conversion as trying the basic dunk and swish service of the M22 movement.

Thats how my common sense says it should be, yet I seen set mech working fine with set wheel installed upside down and no sign of wear.

Many thanks for all your help. I finally came out, if it wasnt for you I would have given up. Photo enclosed of what came out

Thank you for your introduction and welcome to this friendly forum. We all look forward to your contributions and continued involvement.

I found another very interesting piece of information. On a website called birthyearwatches.com I found an old advertised Zeno de Luxe watch, not identical to my watch, but if you read the text in the advertising, it becomes very interesting; https://www.birthyearwatches.com/product/1990-zeno-de-luxe-pilots-watch/ The housing of the advertised watch measures: 37.5mm with crown, 35mm excl.crown, 43.4mm from lug-to-lug and 18mm between the lugs. These are the exact same measurement as the case of my watch, it's an identical case apart from the back. Next to that, in the add it is stated that Zeno did buy older NOS movements and put them in modern housings ....... Perhaps Zeno did modified the ETA2783 with the Kif-Ultraflex shocks & Incaflex balance wheel? As said, the modification is professionally done and Zeno would certainly be capable of doing so .....

You can probably find something suitable from Miyota's wide range of movements. You will need a generic movement spacer too. You will need to fit the spacer ring to the watch case by cutting and filing. You might need a new set of hands too.

I was thinking about a watch I sought work the other day. It reminded me of a Hamilton military watch but it wasn't can't remember the name which is inconvenience. Classic black dial white numbers hands with tritium tubes and lots of engraving on the back of all the specifications like a military watch. Made in Switzerland or at least assembled in Switzerland complete with an OEM Seiko watch movements. having looked at their website below I have a suspicion that it's a legitimate watch it actually is a Swiss made movements if you read carefully at one time they hand made their watches supposedly even that I find it doubtful. But they basically just case up movements and it's conceivable the movements were new old stock that maybe they just put their added touches on or maybe they just case step new old stock movements. Or maybe they didn't maybe they purchased him new from the factory but it's a very interesting watch I think it's definitely Swiss made it's not a clone movement it's just it seems like the movement is little older that should be for the case but your casing up new old stock. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen a watch that accompany found older movements and put them in modern cases because they pup that be an interesting thing to do. So basically just have an interesting looking Swiss made watch. Which does demonstrate something nice in that not everybody can remember every single brand so occasionally nice stuff fault cracks and is still incredible deals to be had out there it just that they seem to be few and far between. https://www.zeno-watch.ch/

That's a new one to me -- crazy! Here's another oddity. A watchmaker that did some work for me a while back told me about sidereal time. I think he had a pocket watch that kept sidereal time. Don't hear much about that either (unless you hang around astronomers).

Cousins seem to stock most of the KIF springs https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/kif-shock-springs

A few more bent mainsprings and I could have just purchased a winder

I've attached a PDF of movement sizes helpful for future questions. I would say this is a 16 size. while the pocket watch databases known to have mistakes this isn't their mistake it's a mistake in the Waltham parts book. I snipped out a image out of the wall from serial number list as you can see 21,693,001 is the start of the series and goes up to another 7000. So that would definitely spanned the serial number range of the serial number. the third link is for a Waltham parts catalog but wasn't seeing the watch so I just PDF model you need out of a later catalog which I've attached. which tool or you looking for? https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/21693102 https://pocketwatchdatabase.com/search/result/waltham/16981074 https://archive.org/details/catalogueofwalth00walt watch-ligne-size-chart.pdf Waltham Watch and Clock Material - 1948 Edition.pdf 1908.pdf

An Inventic pocket watch. This is almost certainly a low cost un-jewelled lever escapement, although the listing didn't show the mechanism. It is also possibly more likely to have been a "trench watch" than a lot of watches that are advertised as such since it has no doubt somewhat radioactive lume, and large hands, of the sort that would have been useful in the trenches. It easily qualifies for the 404 club at a mere 0.99p plus shipping. More info about Inventic can be found -> here <-

I have this project coming to me from eBay. The bracelet intrigued me and I like old Elgins. Got it for $35. It is claimed to be running.

The 99p Kienzle lives. Here it is next to my Citizen Quartz mechanical alarm from around 1989. When it arrived, it had an ominous stink of WD40 when I opened the packaging, so a bath in lighter fluid was needed to clean all the gunk out of it. Once stripped, cleaned and lubricated, it run nicely. Sadly the same cannot be said for a second slightly older one I picked up recently. Someone has completely mangled both the palette fork and the hairspring in that one. Oh well, you don't win them all. I may try to "unfankle" the fork and hairspring on the other one, but I think they may a lost cause.

Nice catch. If you can identify the movement then you at least stand a chance with locating a stem and staff.

Tip to ebay sellers. A badly shot, badly focussed picture will put most buyers off. This little Kienzle 404 club contender went for an uncontested 99p, whereas the other example (which I didn't bid on) went for north of twenty pounds. Both were spares or repair, and both are pretty much identical. These are (oddly perhaps) somewhat collectable, and pretty popular, particularly in Germany.

. Sizes mm Left to right top 2000 = 7.2 2671 = 7.1 2235 = 7.8 8200 = 9.8 8500 = 9.0 Left to right bottom 8500 = 9.3 3135 = 10 CO711 = 10.8 7750 = 12.0 2892 = 10.7 All Right Handed. Left as well if you use brass washers filed out to the same size. insert, then reverse I purchased some brass washers and have spent some time filing out the innards to fit the outer size of each of the Chinese winders. I now have the facility to place 10 different size springs left or right. It would have been too long to wait whilst I purchased springs of each size. Total cost £6.69p.

The tech sheet for the Bulova 11AOACB calls out that of the two setting wheels, the one that meshes with the sliding pinion goes beveled side UP: