Another Poor Seiko Pattern

[jdm]

I'm getting a bit disappointed with the conditions in brand new, not cheap Seikos are leaving the factory.

6R15 watch made in '14, has been used very few times.

Pic taken 95% power reserve, crown down.

I'm unsure what to do about or if just leave it alone. Messing with the balance / hs on these has proven a bet with large chances of doing worse.

[jdrichard]

This looks bad. Assume the watch is clean and there is no issue with the hair spring? You will need to set the beat error first, which is an art. This noise does look like there is a bad component in the movement?

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[clockboy]

I would say it is not beat error 0.1ms is well within tolerance also the amplitude is not good but I suspect something else is amiss. As a first step I would check it is not magnetised. If Ok then clean the escape components & check the pallets,check for end shake of the balance etc.

[Geo]

I agree with CB, demagnetising is always a good idea. Before taking things apart or making adjustments, I would also be curious to see what change, if any, you get by oiling the pallets.

[jdrichard]

Ok, I looked again at the data and I sadly agree with clock boy, your beat error is good, but your pattern looks like there are mechanical issues beyond a simple regulation.

From Canada

[JohnR725]

As a reminder a timing machine cannot give correct numeric results if the pattern looks bad like this. Visually does it really look like a .1 ms Beat error? If you can't see the lines both of them what makes you think the timing machine can? Then the timing machine is averaging over time and right now it's averaging garbage. Then the line is slanting downwards wouldn't that indicates it is running slow Except numerically it says it's zero?

 

If we only look at part of it it might be considered some sort of weird escapement problem except you have dots much farther out than just escapement so demagnetising would be good. Then look if you see of the hairspring is bumping into anything. This is where audio real audio versus the synthetic ticking of the timing machine would be nice because if the hairspring is bumping in the something it makes a really interesting clanging musical sound.

[nad]

Hi JDM,

Notice that you've the lift angle set at 52 degrees. I'm not an expert but discussions on other forum suggest that this should be set to 53 degrees for this caliber.

Might be worth checking the technical reference from Seiko if available.

Regards

Nad

[syfre]

The balance amplitude is very low, need a cleaning

Edited February 7, 2016 by syfre

[Mark]

That erratic pattern is very indicative of poor lubrication. Clean, lubricate, demagnetise - retest. :)

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[ramrod]

too many potential problems for a virtually new and lightly used watch. it's not what should be coming out of seiko's factory.

[Mark]

too many potential problems for a virtually new and lightly used watch. it's not what should be coming out of seiko's factory.

Many of these watches can be sitting in a shop display window for a very long time, sometimes several years, before being purchased. It's not unusual to have a "new" mechanical watch with a poor reading under these circumstances.

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[jdm]

Notice that you've the lift angle set at 52 degrees. I'm not an expert but discussions on other forum suggest that this should be set to 53 degrees for this caliber.

Might be worth checking the technical reference from Seiko if available.

Having set an incorrect lift angle does not cause the erratic pattern. In fact it doesn't even change the amplitude reading significantly.

[jdm]

Many of these watches can be sitting in a shop display window for a very long time, sometimes several years, before being purchased. It's not unusual to have a "new" mechanical watch with a poor reading under these circumstances.

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For Seiko we know year and month of manufacturing from the first two digits of the serial number. In this case July 2014.

[jdm]

Before taking things apart or making adjustments, I would also be curious to see what change, if any, you get by oiling the pallets.

Someone is interested in purchasing the watch, so I had to do something.

kept movement in case

removed upper jewel assembly, balance, winding weight, auto bridge and 2nd reduction wheel.

let power down

removed pallet bridge and pallet fork

oiled pallet jewel faces and balance staff lower pivot

reistalled parts

oiled upper jewel end stone.

winded fully, let rune few minutes, on timegrapher for regulation.

[Geo]

Well pleased for you, I had a feeling oil l was going to sort this one out. :) I've had similar issues like that in the past.

[bobm12]

As Mark said previously: Clean and lube...and it worked!

[jdrichard]

I thought it looked like a dirty movement

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[jdm]

I thought it looked like a dirty movement

I didn't saw any dirt and didn't cleaned anything.

[jdrichard]

Oiled

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[Folkvisor]

too many potential problems for a virtually new and lightly used watch. it's not what should be coming out of seiko's factory.

 

I just bought a Hamilton Jazzmaster GMT and the GMT hand is not working properly. It is on a 24 hour dial but instead of moving 1/2 the distance on the 12 hour dial thus measuring 1 hour on the 24 hour dial it goes 4 times the distance; thus measuring 4 hours on the 24 hour dial in an hour on the 12 hour dial. This shouldn't be happening in a new watch and this is the 2nd watch I've had in as many weeks! The first Hamilton Jazzmaster GMT just stopped working altogether after a day! 

 

I purchased the Hamilton because I heard many good things about them but I am beginning to wonder.

 

Dave

[Folkvisor]

Many of these watches can be sitting in a shop display window for a very long time, sometimes several years, before being purchased. It's not unusual to have a "new" mechanical watch with a poor reading under these circumstances.

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Shouldn't the seller be responsible for checking this out? After all, the watch should be under warranty. Of course, it is almost impossible to ensure a store will have a watchmaker on staff.

[jdm]

Have meet another one with pretty much the same symptoms, again 6R15 movement from '14, to which I've given the same cure as mentioned above.

I'm still not happy with the amplitude. It must be related to lubrication because I've learned to handle pallet fork and balance assembly with the utmost respect,

When I look at the end stone just removed it had a tiny, perfectly round and centered spot of oil. The one which I'm able to reapply is never so good, and probably excessive. I'm thinking about getting an automatic oiler or at least and high quality Bergeon one.

Also wonder if pallet special oil could help ?!?

 

Before

 

After