2824 Keyless Works

[ahabec]

Hello all.

 

I want to build a 2824 watch for myself and trying to avoid a clone, I bought a 2824-2 from an eBay seller in -- of all places -- Cairo, Egypt.

 

I have one watch with a Chinese 2824 and really it's a fine movement, but I detest the shamrock-like spring the low grade ETAs and all China movements use for shock protection. I think it's called Novodiac. 

 

Unlike the spring used by Seiko, which is really easy to fit, the Novodiac seating has 3 openings, making the purchasing of a tool almost mandatory (very smooth move there, Bergeon). I did not buy it so setting the Novodiac is a pain in the euphemism.

 

ANYWAY, the movement sold to me from Egypt seems legit, it has the ETA logo and older type incabloc spring. 

 

But the keyless works is of an older type, it has a spring for the setting lever which is separate from the bridge. The stem releasing part is also designed differently.

It is giving me some issues where winding and setting the date is fine, but when pulling to set time one needs to really pull hard on the stem, otherwise it goes to some middle position between date-setting and time-setting and the wheels don't engage.

 

 

I was wondering if anyone can help me date this movement based on the older type keyless mechanism. Weird to me that it still says 2824-2. Maybe it is fake after all.

 

By the way the hairspring regulation system is the new type, Etachron it's called I think.

 

Seems keyless works has been annoying in all iterations of this movement. It really is its weakest point.

 

Thanks!

[Geo]

It would help if you could post pictures of the movement. More than likely someone will recognise and be able to date it.

[ahabec]

It's like this one. My movement of course has the missing spring marked in red in that photo. Mine is a 2824, not a 2836.

 

I couldn't attach. It didn't let me.

 

http://s73.photobucket.com/user/krpster/media/Watch/ExpII/2836KeylessWorks.jpg.html

[Geo]

Here you go.

[anilv]

Re the novodiac.

You can make your own tool out of plywood.

1. Get the outside diameter the same size as the inner part of the jewel setting.

2. Make a divot in the end.

3. To use..get one leg in the groove, another in the opening [one more leg will be on top of the edge]. Put your tool on top of the nobodies spring and turn.

Works for Seiko too!

Anil

[SSTEEL]

Thats actually the first time I have seen that set up in a 2824-2, interesting.  Do you have a photo of the movement balance area?

[rogart63]

Is there a different stem? I think some of the stems for the older model are twisted. Newer models are straight . Could that be some of the problem? Wrong stem? You need a helicodial stem ?

Edited October 10, 2015 by rogart63

[clockboy]

This web site is out of stock  but does state that it is a helicodial stem

http://www.windingstems.com/eta.php

 

the info size is below.

 

 

[JohnR725]

It be nice to see pictures of both the front and back side your movement. Plus a close-up of the balance assembly with the Etachron and the incabloc spring.  The reason for the close-up of the balance assembly is if it's made in China they don't always look exactly the same as the original. The Chinese do clone the incabloc lthough the usually skip a step or two in manufacturing.

 

Then this watch came in a variety of variations and the parts are different at least between the original 2824 and the rest of them. I've attached the PDF parts list for the original 2824.

 

ETA 2824     28800 BPH-DSS-AUTO-CALD W/CORR-STOP SEC
ETA 2824-1     28,800 BPH-DSS-AUTO-CAL W/CORR-STOP SEC
ETA 2824-2     28,800 BPH-AUTO-CALD-DSS
ETA 2824-A2     MECH MVT W/HEU 81 CHRON TOP MODULE:
ETA 2824R     28800 BPH-DSS-AUTO-CALD W/CORR-STOP SEC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1388_Eta 2801,4,6 Part1.pdf

1389_Eta 2801,4,6 Part2.pdf

[mtsaz]

You have a 2824 or 2824-1.  The -2 has many improvements including a 1 piece spring and set bridge. (that goes on top of the keyless works).  The -0 and -1 have separate spring.  On the -2 its part 445 (eta part #).  Its used in several different eta movements. 

Ironically I need parts from that movement you have.  If you want to sell it or trade it for a -2 let me know.  Thanks

[ahabec]

You mean trade the complete movement that I have for a complete movement from you or just the keyless spring and bridge?

44 minutes ago, mtsaz said:

You have a 2824 or 2824-1.  The -2 has many improvements including a 1 piece spring and set bridge. (that goes on top of the keyless works).  The -0 and -1 have separate spring.  On the -2 its part 445 (eta part #).  Its used in several different eta movements. 

Ironically I need parts from that movement you have.  If you want to sell it or trade it for a -2 let me know.  Thanks

 

[Padd]

Personally I think the Seagull ST2130 is an excellent copy of the ETA 2824.2. But the keyless works is a pain and stems that wont stay in are a common problem. The secret is to tweak the part shown above so that tab on the Combined Setting Lever Jumper (445) that presses down on the setting lever has a slightly higher tension and a dab of grease where the setting lever pushes against the Yoke when entering time setting mode. You may also find the part of 445 that clicks against the pin on the setting lever either needs a dab of grease or reducing the tension (which can be done with a screwdriver while its all together). If you don't do this, when trying to get into the time setting mode, the setting lever rides up over the yoke and the stem pops out and usually wont recover.

I have just fixed 2 of these and by adjusting those 2 tensions (and greasing the setting lever and clutch) , the keyless works is a joy to use!

By the way, you can buy a new ETA 2824.2 from Cousins UK and they aren't that expensive if you buy them LP (loose pack).

[jdm]

On 10/10/2015 at 4:38 AM, anilv said:

3. To use..get one leg in the groove, another in the opening [one more leg will be on top of the edge]. Put your tool on top of the nobodies spring and turn.

Works for Seiko too!

Indeed it does. My video.