A word of warning

[Jon]

Hi guys,

I joined this forum a few years ago now and have enjoyed reading the posts and offering help where I can, as well as learning things I didn't know. Although I am a professional watchmaker and watchmaking tutor: https://www.jonthewatch.co.uk/ I still learn a lot from you guys on subjects and watch movements I haven't come across before. I especially enjoyed a post this week by @eccentric59with his walkthrough of an ETA movement that had a plastic fork and escape wheel, which I haven't worked on before. 

All watchmakers, including professional watchmakers, are always learning something new. It would be incredibly arrogant to say 'I know it all'. Even WOSTEP-trained watchmakers with many years under their belts are always learning something new, even from those relatively new to the art of horology. I trained a watchmaker from Christopher Ward Watches recently and hopefully will be writing them a service manual this year for their in-house movement, the SH21 because they want the expertise I have to be able to train their guys how to service it, which I feel quite honoured about, as I am not WOSTEP-trained. 

I know I'm rambling a bit, but the point I'm trying to make is that we can all learn from each other no matter where we are on our horological journey, be it professionals, seasoned enthusiasts, or the weekend fettler.

I would like to share something with you which is a word of warning, that some of you may not be aware of. This isn't a character assassination or a resentment I have, it's just a fact that might help some of you.

Cousins UK: https://www.cousinsuk.com/ ONLY sell to what they call 'Trade Buyers' it is stated in their Terms & Conditions; that means that you need to be a professional watchmaker in the trade to have any real binding contract with them. They are happy to take your money as many are not in the trade, but if what you buy is defective, damaged, missing, or you want to return it to Cousins for whatever reason, you don't have a legal leg to stand on and you may not see your money again. So if you are planning to buy an item that is quite pricey keep this fact in mind if that item is not working properly or stops working a few weeks or months later, then you won't get any redress. Companies such as HS Walsh and Gleave and Co. sell a lot of what Cousins sells for a very similar price and sometimes cheaper, but at least you will have a chance to contact them and make a claim.

 

 

I buy from Cousins from time to time, but wouldn't buy an expensive tool or item for this reason. Mainly watch crystals, gaskets, batteries, and the odd mainspring. I mainly buy from Gleave and Co in Clerkenwell, London, as they have the expertise to be able to help you on the phone and they are also a small family-run material house that I have trust in and would prefer to put my money their way. Gleave and Co. have integrity. Their website is getting better and sometimes what they have isn't listed on the website, but a phone call (8.30 am to 10.30 am) or WhatsApp message (anytime) will sort that out.

Expensive equipment, such as Elma watch cleaning machines, or Bergeon case back removal tools 5700, etc. can be bought from HS Walsh or even cheaper from a German Company called Beco Technic: https://www.beco-technic.com/en/

You have to set up an account with them, but even with shipping and VAT thrown in, it will end up cheaper than buying from a British company. You get a 10 to 15% discount on their prices once you register with them. I was a consultant for watchmakers in Essex who saved about £25000 buying through Bec Technic.

I can only tell you my experience and some may have had a good experience with Cousins getting a refund. It took me once over six months to get a refund for a £40 quartz movement that was delivered to the wrong address in an order that was several hundred pounds and after spending about £5000 with them, as I was the buyer of a watchmaking college. Only when I threatened to buy from elsewhere that they refunded me/the college for the missing movement.

I hope this helps some of you in some way, as there are more material houses out there other than Cousins.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Jon

[gpraceman]

I am not a pro, just a hobbyist.  The 2nd order that I placed with Cousins showed up in my mailbox without any contents.  Just an empty envelope with the flap torn open.  Rather a poor packaging job on their part IMO, not even putting a strip of tape across the flap and just trusting the envelope's adhesive.  With how heavy the contents were, they really should have packed it in a box, not an envelope.  I was out £216. 

Contacting Cousins led to some frustration, as their CS rep nearly accused me of lying and he basically said, "we ship tons of packages and haven't had that issue".  Now, who is lying?  I had to pester them before they would file a claim with Royal Mail.  It took about 6 weeks before I received the refund.

I have placed other orders with Cousins since, but I won't buy expensive items from them again.

Edited December 28, 2023 by gpraceman

[Jon]

14 minutes ago, gpraceman said:

I am not a pro, just a hobbyist.  The 2nd order that I placed with Cousins showed up in my mailbox without any contents.  Just an empty envelope with the flap torn open.  Rather a poor packaging job on their part IMO, not even putting a strip of tape across the flap and just trusting the envelope's adhesive.  With how heavy the contents were, they really should have packed it in a box, not an envelope.  I was out £216. 

Contacting Cousins led to some frustration, as their CS rep nearly accused me of lying and he basically said, "we ship tons of packages and haven't had that I issue".  Now, who is lying?  I had to pester them before they would file a claim with Royal Mail.  It took about 6 weeks before I received the refund.

I have placed other orders with Cousins since, but I won't buy expensive items from them again.

That's how I got my refund from them, as Royal Mail had to be contacted and it was they that agreed to the insurance being paid. I always use the courier service now rather than Royal Mail. A few quid more but much safer if you have to claim for missing contents or it goes missing altogether. I had very much the same response to yours. 'This hasn't happened to anyone else'. Really?

Edited December 28, 2023 by Jon

[Endeavor]

So far, since 2015, CousinsUK has given me an excellent services, including returned items of low value when Royal Mail cocked up. In all those years that I've been ordering, not a single item was faulty.

CousinsUK also gives the IOSS service (Import One Stop Shop) for Europe, which I can't find by HS Walsh or by Gleave & Co (?).

Anyhow, thanks for the alternative addresses, but for these to have any value to me, they have to have IOSS

 

 

 

[eccentric59]

48 minutes ago, Jon said:

I especially enjoyed a post this week by @eccentric59with his walkthrough of an ETA movement that had a plastic fork and escape wheel

Thanks, Jon. 

 

I can empathize with both you and Cousins. I have never had to deal with Cousin's customer service, but I have had incredibly frustrating experiences with other companies (not watch parts, but it doesn't really matter). Unfortunately the customer isn't always right. There are always going to be companies with an internal culture with the attitude that the customer is always trying to rip them off. And conversely there will always be customers who take advantage of companies with lenient return/refund policies. Taking either to the extreme would signal to me that the company won't be around much longer.

 

I think what exacerbates a lot of this is the anonymity of the internet. If I have to contact customer service through email, a chatbot or some other non-human method, i am already irritated before I start the process. By the time I get a response I can be downright testy and if the answer isn't "A thousand apologies, sir. We will have the company CEO hand-carry a replacement to you on bent knee and velvet pillow" I assume a completely antagonistic posture. I always try to remind myself that behind all the technology are people (usually underpaid) who take the brunt of my coarseness and I try to be a little more sympathetic.  I have learned lately that if instead of "demanding my rights" (Yes, the call of the wild American blowhard) I empathize with the rep "I understand it's company policy to do X, but is there anything you can possibly do for me?" I tend to get a lot further faster. I also have to accept that sometimes the answer is going to be no. There's a saying in Amish country where I live, "too soon old, too late smart." It sounds quainter when spoken with a PA Dutch accent.  

[Jon]

3 minutes ago, eccentric59 said:

There's a saying in Amish country where I live, "too soon old, too late smart."

I like that attitude! Thanks for sharing your views and experience, I too believe you catch more flies with honey, rather than expecting that velvet cushion you talked about, although I do like a velvet cushion now and then... lol

[Kalanag]

3 hours ago, Jon said:

Cousins UK: https://www.cousinsuk.com/ ONLY sell to what they call 'Trade Buyers' it is stated in their Terms & Conditions

Unfortunately it is the same with Beco-Technic, Boley and other German wholesalers. You need to run a business.

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, Jon said:

Cousins UK: https://www.cousinsuk.com/ ONLY sell to what they call 'Trade Buyers' it is stated in their Terms & Conditions; that means that you need to be a professional watchmaker in the trade to have any real binding contract with them. They are happy to take your money as many are not in the trade, but if what you buy is defective, damaged, missing, or you want to return it to Cousins for whatever reason, you don't have a legal leg to stand on and you may not see your money again. So if you are planning to buy an item that is quite pricey keep this fact in mind if that item is not working properly or stops working a few weeks or months later, then you won't get any redress. Companies such as HS Walsh and Gleave and Co. sell a lot of what Cousins sells for a very similar price and sometimes cheaper, but at least you will have a chance to contact them and make a claim.

 

interesting observation as anyone on this group realizes that almost everybody universally buys from them and the most part says nothing but nice things about cousins. I had never really read the fine print on the business aspect I had known about the other companies because it comes up if you make a recommendation in somebody's angry can is a Purchase stuff. Even where I live the two physical material houses one of them will sell to everybody so doesn't matter you can walk in off the street and shall sell whatever she has to you. The other one will sell everything but the watch material and it has to do with taxes. At least that was one of the reasons she gave because we collect our taxes on the final sales of the items of your purchase a watch part wholesale and add it to a service the taxes on the final product not on the bits and pieces along the way. But then that doesn't explain the other material house selling watch parts to anybody.

Often times which is C with wholesale companies and not just in watch repair other wholesale businesses they supposedly won't sell to end users because it affects their it affects the trades supposedly. I remember my mother was buying hair products a particular something she bought for doing her own hair and then somebody caught on that her sister was the beautician and she wasn't and then that was it for the sales because there are supposedly protecting the people in the trade. Except I'm not sure if there's any legal rights to actually do that or not in the case of cousins if they take your money and don't honor something I wonder if you could take legal action against them? In this country we love to take legal action against everybody everybody lives in fear of a lawsuit which is why everything you purchase comes with he which manuals explaining all of the were not liable for anything on the hopes that you won't sue them

3 hours ago, Jon said:

I especially enjoyed a post this week by @eccentric59with his walkthrough of an ETA movement that had a plastic fork and escape wheel, which I haven't worked on before. 

Thinking about warnings that was a very nice walk-through but there's a minor problem? Where's the technical documentation for the Swatch or for that matter where the spare parts? There is a technical communication but it's not out in the wild as this is a Swatch group internal movements. The only people having technical access would be people who have access to Swatch group. So if you are servicing one of these on your own you do want to be aware of the availability of spare parts or other things might become a challenge or basically impossible.

For your own watch it probably wouldn't be a concern that this is where we had a discussion a while back on working on friends stuff or doing a little business on the side where it be very bad if someone saw the walk-through and thought all I can service this and then discovered that they can't because they can't buy the spare parts as they don't actually exist unless you're part of Swatch group. Then yes Swatch group policies are rather not very nice at all of.

[Jon]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

interesting observation as anyone on this group realizes that almost everybody universally buys from them and the most part says nothing but nice things about cousins. I had never really read the fine print on the business aspect I had known about the other companies because it comes up if you make a recommendation in somebody's angry can is a Purchase stuff. Even where I live the two physical material houses one of them will sell to everybody so doesn't matter you can walk in off the street and shall sell whatever she has to you. The other one will sell everything but the watch material and it has to do with taxes. At least that was one of the reasons she gave because we collect our taxes on the final sales of the items of your purchase a watch part wholesale and add it to a service the taxes on the final product not on the bits and pieces along the way. But then that doesn't explain the other material house selling watch parts to anybody.

Often times which is C with wholesale companies and not just in watch repair other wholesale businesses they supposedly won't sell to end users because it affects their it affects the trades supposedly. I remember my mother was buying hair products a particular something she bought for doing her own hair and then somebody caught on that her sister was the beautician and she wasn't and then that was it for the sales because there are supposedly protecting the people in the trade. Except I'm not sure if there's any legal rights to actually do that or not in the case of cousins if they take your money and don't honor something I wonder if you could take legal action against them? In this country we love to take legal action against everybody everybody lives in fear of a lawsuit which is why everything you purchase comes with he which manuals explaining all of the were not liable for anything on the hopes that you won't sue them

Thinking about warnings that was a very nice walk-through but there's a minor problem? Where's the technical documentation for the Swatch or for that matter where the spare parts? There is a technical communication but it's not out in the wild as this is a Swatch group internal movements. The only people having technical access would be people who have access to Swatch group. So if you are servicing one of these on your own you do want to be aware of the availability of spare parts or other things might become a challenge or basically impossible.

For your own watch it probably wouldn't be a concern that this is where we had a discussion a while back on working on friends stuff or doing a little business on the side where it be very bad if someone saw the walk-through and thought all I can service this and then discovered that they can't because they can't buy the spare parts as they don't actually exist unless you're part of Swatch group. Then yes Swatch group policies are rather not very nice at all of.

John @JohnR725 you really need to proofread what you have dictated through whatever app you are using, as some of this is complete gobbledy gook that can't be understood

Edited December 28, 2023 by Jon

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Jon said:

John @JohnR725 you really need to proofread what you have dictated through whatever app you are using, as some of this is complete gobbledy gook that can't be understood

I apologize I was born with dyslexia. I use dictation software sometimes it has a mind of its own. I usually do try to proofread but I'm sorry that my incompetence bothers you I will try better to be more competent.  Then if you would please quote the offending text I will see if I can decipher what I was trying to say versus the dictation software. Then once again I apologize for my incompetence.

[oldhippy]

I would like to give my support here. You may or may not know I've been retired from watch / clock making for years after around 30 years. I still learn a lot on here about many things, how you go about trying different things with some wonderful results. So members old and new keep up the good work and a Happy New Year to you all. 

[Klassiker]

12 hours ago, Kalanag said:

Unfortunately it is the same with Beco-Technic, Boley and other German wholesalers. You need to run a business.

I'd like to second this. I'm not at home right now, so I can't consult my own list, but I think Beco have two separate online shops, for trade and hobbyists. The range of part and tools offered by the trade (wholesale) shop is very good. The retail shop is very limited. You can get an account for the wholesale shop without declaring your company i.d. or VAT number, so you pay the VAT up front, similar to the way most of us have our Cousins accounts set up. The problem is, you have to (falsely) declare that the goods are for your business use, so as a hobbyist you are breaking their trading t&c right there. The way I see it, when I deal with Cousins or Beco, I am entirely relying on their goodwill, especially if things go wrong. Fortunately, bad experiences are uncommon, but it's worth understanding the risk.

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I apologize I was born with dyslexia. I use dictation software sometimes it has a mind of its own. I usually do try to proofread but I'm sorry that my incompetence bothers you I will try better to be more competent.  Then if you would please quote the offending text I will see if I can decipher what I was trying to say versus the dictation software. Then once again I apologize for my incompetence.

I cant say i have a problem with it I always manage to work out what you are explaining, sometimes its just how you say it. We all talk differently especially me, because well I'm just wierd anyway.

[rehajm]

I’m sorry to hear there have been issues with CS at Cousins. They once sent a sealed mainspring with what looked like beard clippings inside but otherwise I’ve never had an issue with them. Frankly I’m pleasantly surprised with their accuracy given there are humans involved

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 minutes ago, rehajm said:

I’m sorry to hear there have been issues with CS at Cousins. They once sent a sealed mainspring with what looked like beard clippings inside but otherwise I’ve never had an issue with them. Frankly I’m pleasantly surprised with their accuracy given there are humans involved

Now I'm frightened, i have a £300 order to make with Cousins. I have a business account with them, a business that may exist one day but probably not. 

[Jon]

11 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I apologize I was born with dyslexia. I use dictation software sometimes it has a mind of its own. I usually do try to proofread but I'm sorry that my incompetence bothers you I will try better to be more competent.  Then if you would please quote the offending text I will see if I can decipher what I was trying to say versus the dictation software. Then once again I apologize for my incompetence.

I'm sorry John, I didn't mean to come across like that. You are far from incompetent and I never meant to offend you, so if I have, again, I'm sorry!

24 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Now I'm frightened, i have a £300 order to make with Cousins. I have a business account with them, a business that may exist one day but probably not. 

Most of the time they are spot on. I don't want to alarm anyone, but just a heads-up that if something is broken or defective they tend to say the supplier may not entertain it depending on who the supplier is when it's Cousins you have the contract with and not the supplier, although I bought a Bergeon EtaChron stud adjusting tool some years back and it broke. When I contacted Cousins about it they promptly sent a new one and didn't want the broken one back because Bergeon, who made the tool, has a policy of replacing any defective tool without question. Now that's what I call good customer service by Bergeon!

[rehajm]

4 hours ago, oldhippy said:

I would like to give my support here. You may or may not know I've been retired from watch / clock making for years after around 30 years. I still learn a lot on here about many things, how you go about trying different things with some wonderful results. So members old and new keep up the good work and a Happy New Year to you all. 

May I second this sentiment- I am grateful for the contributions of everyone posting here in the forum but specifically everyone in this thread. Thank you all for assistance over the last year and We all look forward to your contributions and continued involvement

Edited December 29, 2023 by rehajm

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I cant say i have a problem with it I always manage to work out what you are explaining, sometimes its just how you say it. We all talk differently especially me, because well I'm just wierd anyway.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/241479868947935?s=yWDuG2&fs=e

Edited December 29, 2023 by Neverenoughwatches

[VWatchie]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:52 PM, Jon said:

Even WOSTEP-trained watchmakers with many years under their belts are always learning something new, even from those relatively new to the art of horology.

The most skilled and successful people I have had the privilege to meet in my life were all also the most humble, curious, and inquisitive, and I think, no, I'm sure there's a strong connection between humble, curious, inquisitive, and success. I shall never forget my meeting with Mstislav Rostropovich in the early 1980s. I was a violin student and he was coming for a visit to our music school. We, the students, and the music world thought of him as a god. In my mind, I was picturing us, the students, bowing before him and thanking him for visiting our school, but when he arrived he shook hands with each student, introduced himself, and thanked us for the invitation. I will never forget it. And as I remember it he had more questions for us than we of him. It blew my mind.

[RickTock]

Just as a data point, I've placed five small orders with Cousins this year, all shipped via Royal Mail to Canada. No issues with any of the orders.

And Cousins packs up my orders better than any other vendor I deal with. For example, small parts (say the size of a watch crystal or smaller) come in their own bag or envelope, which is then placed with other small parts in a small white ~10x5x0.5cm box, which is then placed in a large plastic bag with other small boxes and/or medium sized parts/tools, which is then placed in a Styrofoam-peanut filled shipping box.

I do try to shop local (e.g., Perrin and Somal in Canada) when I can, but Cousins has the best online inventory I've found so far and often best price. Cousins price for shipping from UK to Canada via Royal Mail is comparable to what Canadian vendors charge for shipping across Canada.

[JohnR725]

8 hours ago, Jon said:

I'm sorry John, I didn't mean to come across like that. You are far from incompetent and I never meant to offend you, so if I have, again, I'm sorry!

Frustrations we all get to have bad days of frustrations. You get to have a frustrating day of what the heck is John trying to say. I get to be frustrated with the dictation software it sets me free and allows me to come and play with you but it's just frustrating. Sometimes it has a mind of its own sometimes a spot on. Sometimes for complicated things I spent like an entire afternoon being obsessed with trying to get something perfect and then I notice peculiar things and I've proofread it like 1 million times it's just frustrating

maybe in the future if I do a you don't understand the paragraph just quit we can have a laugh at the stupidity of dictation software or I might have just said the words wrong. Yes there are times why cannot figure out for the life of me why it's done what it's done. It's supposed to have intelligence to grasp what the conversation is but still like for instance let's see if? The words C? It's going to make no sense at all to anybody what I just did but where I said let's see if we get the word C let me help you out here what's going on I'm saying the exact same word of see=C yes the probably take a little bit a deciphering of what I've just done I keep saying the same thing except dictation gives me the C sometimes and other times it actually will spell it out the way it's supposed to be and often times I just won't see it at all. Really weird how it does stuff so it's really troubling you don't grasp it just do a quote and we'll see if we can decipher it hopefully.

 

8 hours ago, Jon said:

Cousins you have the contract with and not the supplier

Now back to the discussion which is actually a multiple discussion for instance if you purchase something from cousins is the contract really with cousins? We end up with some really amusingly peculiar problems here typically with most stuff they sell it in a package it sealed up they just receive and send it off to you things are fine or not fine. But what about equipment that has warranties from other companies may be expensive equipment that what happens who honors the warranty or what if the warranty gets Well refuse to be honored because of the claim was damaged in shipping due to incompetence With packaging for instance then the problem becomes whose packaging yes the company was incompetent with their packaging but broken in shipping to wherever it was purchased from broken when being shipped to you who is your warranty with?

I should go "up above but I'll continue in my example in the state of Washington sales tax is collected on the final product. So one of my material houses will only sell wholesale for watch parts. She can sell you tools and supplies because the watchmaker is the final user of the product. Some of this I think is an excuse to protect the trade because I know she can collect sales tax because usually I have or collect the sales tax for me even though I do have a business license because typically I'm the final user of watch parts. Or one of my friends ordered something from her and she shipped it to the state of Oregon which does not have sales tax they do income tax and that was okay because she didn't have to collect tax. On the other hand you have your value added tax and sooner or later the tax people want their tax money and if cousins isn't collecting the tax money from you guess who gets stuck with it and probably a penalty.

So our discussion appears to be going in a multiple of directions like are the various material houses protecting the wholesale trade of their watchmakers? Or is it purely a tax reason?

 

The warranty issue though does bring up an interesting problem of who honors the warranty. I guess what is suggesting is if you're going to purchase an expensive item from cousins you better inquire as to who is going to handle warranty issues. Especially with anything that's breakable often times the shipping people get stuck with this but if the item was shipped to cousins and already damaged then getting a warranty claim on a broken item may be nonexistent. This is where maybe purchasing at least in the UK from one of the other physical material houses where he could physically go with open up your whatever verify that it does work versus cousins Who doesn't seem to physically exist at all. Yes I do know they physically exist a tractor address down once but you look online they claim they don't physically exist they exist in the cloud only.

 

 

[VWatchie]

I placed my first order with CousinsUK in 2017. Since then I have had two problematic products delivered. The first was the Bergeon cannon pinion remover, advertised as able to extract cannon pinions of any size, but in reality only cannon pinions with a diameter >= 1mm. Cousins contacted Bergeon about it, changed the description on their site and refunded me my money. The other situation was a pallet fork for an ETA movement. The package was opened and the exit jewel was missing. This time they sent me a new pallet fork stamped "chronometer" which was not even listed on their site.

Through the years I have learned that the most efficient way to resolve a situation is to ask for help even if you're entitled to demand help.

So, so far I have only praise for CousinsUK and through the years I've probably spent an amount close to a Rolex submariner on them.

On 12/29/2023 at 1:36 AM, JohnR725 said:

I apologize I was born with dyslexia.

No worries John, we all are, the only difference most of us are fortunate to get over it 

[Waggy]

4 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

so far I have only praise for CousinsUK

I agree, I purchased a Robour press from them and it siezed half way down on the first use, I was unable to move it up or down. All they asked for was a video showing the problem and once they reviewed it they (CousinsUK) agreed to replace it. They initially asked for me to return the damaged tool (also at their expense), but as shipping out of (but not into?!?!) the UAE is so expensive they agreed to let me keep the damaged one and just shipped a new on to me. Initially I was dreading reporting the problem, but pleasantly surprised by the level of customer service and the whole process was resolved in under 1 week - now I'm a loyal customer. Also, I have constantly compared their prices to the likes of eBay and Ali Express and found them to be extremely competitive and often cheaper.

On 12/30/2023 at 12:56 AM, JohnR725 said:

The warranty issue though does bring up an interesting problem of who honors the warranty. I guess what is suggesting is if you're going to purchase an expensive item from cousins you better inquire as to who is going to handle warranty issues.

Technically contract of sale is made in the UK, i.e. you offer to buy the product from wherever you are located in the world and they then accept your offer, as the acceptance of your offer and, therefore, the creation of the contract is made by CousinsUK in the UK, hence, UK law (technically English law) applies no matter where you are in the world. Thus, the UK Consumer Rights Act 2015 applies which states that your contract is with CousinsUK not with the original manufacturer (they have a contract with the manufacturer, not you) and they (CousinsUK) have a duty to replace or refund (at your discretion, not theirs) if the goods are not of "satisfactory quality" - See section 20 ss 7 of the act. There are some caveats for perishable goods, sanitary items and time limits etc. Unfortunately, Many retailers will try it on and fob you off to the manufacturer hence avoiding any liability/risk/cost, but they are relying on your (and probably also their) ignorance of the law, once you remind them of this they will usually back down and do what they are required to do, or you can take your complaint to the Trading Standards office (free of charge) and they will force them to comply. Basically, you just don't accept any nonsense about sending to the manufacturer, or "store policy states we only issue store credit..." or any other BS and insist on your consumer rights as per the law...the law trumps their "store policy" every time. Also, the principal still applies that 'you cannot contract out of the law', so any comments they try on about you accepting the stores return policy when you bought the goods is just nonsense.

However, I fully agree with @VWatchie that the carrot gets you much further than the stick and a nice polite conversation will often get you what you need much quicker and nicer without having to argue the technicalities of the Consumer Rights Act.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but I have studied the Consumer Rights Act as part of my DBA, so please treat the above as friendly advice only.