Another First strip down clean and rebuild Noobie

[Tiny]

So today I received my first watch for practice strip down, clean, repair and rebuild. 

I would Like to know more about this watch so if anyone could shed any light on it I would be grateful.

 Ingersoll 17 Jewels Incabloc Automatic Wrist Watch is the description on the ebay listing and while the photo's a very low quality I have taken some more but I'm unable to add them in a post but rather add as a attachment at the end of the post.

So I do have a question which maybe stupid but I suppose a unasked question is stupid and may cost me more that my pride. I don't see any grip points on the watch back but I also don't see any marks where a tool has been used to open the back. So my question is this watch back a screw off or do I use a back lifter knife thingy 

 

[Woolshire]

Looks like the back is already off. What am I missing?

[Tiny]

No that is a exhibition back

[watchweasol]

By the look of it its a s Tiny said  close uo there are scratches in the ctystal/plastic, movement lis an eta going by the logo (a bit blurred0

4 minutes ago, Tiny said:

No that is a exhibition back

[mikepilk]

Looking closely around the edge of the back, is there a small lip anywhere, i.e. a slightly larger gap at some point?

Maybe near the arrow ? 

If not, possible a front loader, as there's no case clamp.

 

[Nucejoe]

 When there is no grip point for Jax or similar tools, its then a pop up or front loader. 

Some watches put the lip where its hidden by the strap. 

I think its a pop up and first time I see an ETA behind one, interesting as screw slots look untouched. 

[JohnR725]

We need some slightly different pictures? It's hard to see what we need to see looking straight down. So we need some sideways pictures and maybe at a angle.

[Tiny]

Here are the updated photos John looks like a pry back to me. 

[mikepilk]

As @Nucejoe says, the screws look untouched, so the back has probably never been off, hence the lack of marks.

Rather than just dive in and try to prise it off, I would use a razor blade and work it gently all the way around the slot, just to get it started.

If the slot is not an actual slot, but just machined to look like one, then it's a front loader with a split stem. I've never seen one on an ETA movement.

[rodabod]

I opened this exact model of watch today.  It’s a snap on back. There did not appear to be a lip, but enough of a gap to get a case knife in. 

Movement is an ETA 2824. 

[Tiny]

Rod do you have any more information on this watch. Any idea when it was produced. Also what the model was called.

I have ordered my hand removal tools Also some screwdrivers ready to take the watch apart. 

[rodabod]

18 hours ago, Tiny said:

Rod do you have any more information on this watch. Any idea when it was produced. Also what the model was called.

I have ordered my hand removal tools Also some screwdrivers ready to take the watch apart. 

None I’m afraid - I didn’t buy the watch from new. I’d guess mid-90’s. Probably wasn’t cheap. 
 

A couple of tips as you suggested you were new: the Indian/Chinese presto hand lifters are not good, but you can risk using them on a watch of this value. Get some Swiss ones later. Same goes for the movement holder - get a Bergeon one or similar if you have not already. Finally, try not to deform the hairspring when removing the balance cock!

[jdm]

On 3/3/2022 at 7:36 PM, Tiny said:

So today I received my first watch for practice strip down, clean, repair and rebuild. 

I don't know its material value but that's a nice Swiss watch, automatic, date, with some vintage value. You risk big in throwing yourself at it, as an absolute beginner, with limited knowledge, dexterity, and tools. Below our topic about mov.ts recommended to beginners 

 

[mikepilk]

1 hour ago, rodabod said:

None I’m afraid - I didn’t buy the watch from new. I’d guess mid-90’s. Probably wasn’t cheap. 
 

A couple of tips as you suggested you were new: the Indian/Chinese presto hand lifters are not good, but you can risk using them on a watch of this value. Get some Swiss ones later. Same goes for the movement holder - get a Bergeon one or similar if you have not already. Finally, try not to deform the hairspring when removing the balance cock!

I agree with @rodabod - it's worth buying a good movement holder like Bergeon. And the cheap presto tools are poor. I prefer levers.  The three tools its worth spending more on, initially, are (or you will just end up buying better ones) , movement holder, tweezers (e.g. Dumont) and screwdrivers.

As it's your first watch strip down, I think there's a high risk of you damaging it, and it's quite a nice watch. I'd suggest buying a cheap non-automatic movement to practice on (<£10 on ebay). Manual wind Swiss with 15Jewels would be a good start.   

[Nucejoe]

 ETA 2824 powers some modern watches too , Tudor makes a Chronograde 2836 nearly the same as 2824, with a MSRP price of 4 to 5K, Standard grade Asian made ones cost about $300,   Parts to it are increasingly getting scarce.

Pay special attention to reversers, a good clean and lube makes lots of difference in power reserve.

 

 

[jdm]

55 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

 ETA 2824 powers some modern watches too

It powers virtually all Swiss made entry level automatic watch. I wrote vintage because the 17j version had been discontinued like 30 years ago.

 

55 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Standard grade Asian made ones cost about $300.

More like USD 100: https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/3-hands-seagull?code=TY2130M

 

55 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Parts to it are increasingly getting scarce.

Not really. Cousins has virtually all parts in stock. The mov.t has been produce is such a large volume that between NOS and grey market, there is no scarcity to speak of.

[rodabod]

I paid £12.50 for this exact watch, so I wouldn’t be too concerned about the value unless you are very short of cash.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Automatic-Ingersoll-Watch-for-spares-or-repair-Incabloc-17-Jewels-Swiss-made-/325069312897?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

[jdm]

22 minutes ago, rodabod said:

I paid £12.50 for this exact watch, so I wouldn’t be too concerned about the value unless you are very short of cash.

That is a great bargain, at the same time my respect for quality makes me shiver when seeing pointless damage to them, and the fact is a relatively small mov.t, with automatic and calendar complication, makes not ideal for a beginner to learn on.
I'm not the only one saying this, even out Host Mark Lovick uses a manual wind 6497 in his excellent training: watchfix.com

 

[Nucejoe]

 I was quoting price for brand new watches. Don't see why anyone would bother selling anything for £5 or £ 12.50,  wouldn't throwing it away be simpler. 

 

 

[jdm]

3 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

I was quoting price for brand new watches.

You can get a Chinese diver's watch with a chinese 2824 for €130, VAT and shipping included

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002986459520.html

Paying more would be a rip off, even if some fashion brands get away with that.

3 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Don't see why anyone would bother selling anything for £5 or £ 12.50,  wouldn't throwing it away be simpler. 

Some people have respect for fine objects and don't adopt the throwing away culture. Have you read our famous 404 topic for example. Plus, they can earn eBay reputation and make another person happy. All good things in my opinion.

[Tiny]

Well I have decided to place this watch on the todo list when I've have some practice on some other watches first. It's like this 30 to 40 year old masterpiece and the back looks like it's never been off just for me to come along at break it (not for me) I only paid 16 pounds for it but I was someone pride and joy some time. So I have bought a SAGA Timex auto movement to start on. this may also be someone loved time peace however it doesn't look so fragile. 

 

Quick question how is the rotor removed I don't see a screw

 

 

 

[jdm]

3 minutes ago, Tiny said:

.So I have bought a SAGA Timex auto movement to start on. this may also be someone loved time peace however it doesn't look so fragile. 

Quick question how is the rotor removed I don't see a screw

To save money these mov.ts used pressed posts and rivets, reduced parts count and more weird things. They are built very much unlike a normal mechanical watch. Not made to be taken apart and even repaired, the specifics of this simple fact do change from a model to another, but in the end they are an even poorer choice than a quality ETA for a beginner. If you enter Timex in the search box above you will get all the explanations and tips from the folks that know how to work on them.

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Tiny said:

Quick question how is the rotor removed I don't see a screw

If you really want it off grab it with something just rip it off.

58 minutes ago, jdm said:

but in the end they are an even poorer choice than a quality ETA for a beginner. If you enter Timex in the search box above you will get all the explanations and tips from the folks that know how to work on them.

Yes this is a very very poor choice to learn on. Even if it had screws which it doesn't Timex grade movements that people do work on are still horrible choices to learn on and not very good at all. There's so many other better watches out there that have screws that can come apart that resemble a real watch.

[Tiny]

So I'm ashamed to ask Has anyone got a good automatic watch I could buy to get me on my way or even just the movement. I do have the fossil with TY2724 but it's a watch I would like to repair and use/sell on 

If this sort of post is not allowed please delete

 

 

 

[mikepilk]

A manual wind is easier (and cheaper) to start with than an automatic. Auto mechanisms can be a bit fiddly - eg cleaning  and oiling the reverser wheels correctly (as @Nucejoe mentioned).

Start off simple !