ETA 2789-1

[LittleWatchShop]

  On 2/25/2022 at 11:19 PM, rossjackson01 said:

two pieces.

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It is one piece.  The picture shows two orthogonal views.

[rossjackson01]

  On 2/25/2022 at 11:25 PM, LittleWatchShop said:

It is one piece.  The picture shows two orthogonal views.

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Ah. Thank you. Been trying for an hour now. Can only move it by hard tweezer pressure. I will get there.

Ross

[rossjackson01]

Did it. Did it. Did it. Finally got the Setting Lever lose. Phew! Next. NuceJoe's Coca-Cola clean. 

I know I'm excited. But hey. It's my fist ever dissemble in a proper manner.

Ross

[LittleWatchShop]

Yay!!

[rossjackson01]

I've a long way to go. However I have, in my opinion achieved a milestone. I've dissemble part of a watch and cleaned the rusty parts with an ultrasonic cleaner.  Next will be the oil an re-assembly. 

The youtube videos from members and others is a great boon in learning. 

Ross

Edited February 28, 2022 by rossjackson01
grammar

[Nucejoe]

  There should be a datasheet online  for this caliber or a schematic diagram, wouldn't hurt to have in additjon to the pix you have taken, I can show where every parts goes, but datasheet is best to follow for oiling.

You can't oveclean the parts specically reversers, fork, escape,and balance.

You didn't put the fork or balance in ultrasonic, did you?  if you did, best is to check if any shellac is lost.

Regards 

 

[jdm]

  On 2/28/2022 at 7:06 PM, Nucejoe said:

You didn't put the fork or balance in ultrasonic, did you?  if you did, best is to check if any shellac is lost.

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Once again..  correct use of ultrasonic cleaners and related fluisce does not damage shellac.

[Nucejoe]

  On 2/28/2022 at 8:53 PM, jdm said:

Once again..  correct use of ultrasonic cleaners and related fluisce does not damage shellac.

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OP is a hobbiest and new to watchrepair, nothing like a professional repair shop, so name is a cleaning solution that suits him.

Regs

[watchweasol]

Hi Ross   attached is the parts/tech sheet in case you need it.

1999_ETA2779, 2789 (1).pdfFetching info...

[VWatchie]

  On 2/28/2022 at 7:06 PM, Nucejoe said:

You didn't put the fork or balance in ultrasonic, did you?  if you did, best is to check if any shellac is lost

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Being a relatively modern movement (1976-1980), I would expect the impulse jewel to be friction fitted rather than fixed with shellac(?), so we shouldn't have to worry about the balance. The fork is, of course, another matter.

[Nucejoe]

  On 3/1/2022 at 2:55 PM, VWatchie said:

Being a relatively modern movement (1976-1980), I would expect the impulse jewel to be friction fitted rather than fixed with shellac(?), so we shouldn't have to worry about the balance. The fork is, of course, another matter.

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Hi VWatchie, thanks for enlightening me, had noticed not loosing modern impulse jewel in ultrasonic, didn't know the reason. 

Regards

[jdm]

  On 3/1/2022 at 12:59 PM, Nucejoe said:

OP is a hobbiest and new to watchrepair, nothing like a professional repair shop, so name is a cleaning solution that suits him.

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There below our pinned, all-levels covered, comprehensive topic on the subject:

 

[rossjackson01]

I did not put the shellac items in the ultrasonic. I have to say, it worked a treat on the setting lever. Used lighter fluid. 

Found the problem with the movement. The gear on the escapement wheel does not contact the teeth on the 2nd wheel? Screwing down the bridge draws the escapement away from the 2nd wheel. Hmm. Been at it all afternoon. 

Ross

[Nucejoe]

  On 3/1/2022 at 9:12 PM, rossjackson01 said:

 

Found the problem with the movement. The gear on the escapement wheel does not contact the teeth on the 2nd wheel? Screwing down the bridge draws the escapement away from the 2nd wheel. Hmm. Been at it all afternoon. 

 

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Are you sure pivot are correct and in holes?     Could be a bent pivot. Do gears in the train turn effortlessly? 

Check the side shake on pivots you say move apart, you grab each arbour in your tweezers and shake it from side to side , should feel no noticable side shake. 

Are you set up to show a vid of what gears moving apart?

 

[rossjackson01]

  On 3/1/2022 at 10:07 PM, Nucejoe said:

Are you sure pivot are correct and in holes?     Could be a bent pivot. Do gears in the train turn effortlessly? 

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Yes. All move effortless when the bridge is off. All pivots site into gems when bridge placed. All moves correctly. Bridge tightened and balance is then aligned off (away) from Centre wheel. When bridge fully tight (not massively) then all pivots seize. 

Don't know how to make a video. Only have an android phone. Hence stills. Will take some photographs and post tomorrow. My head hurts now.

Good fun though. 

Ross

Edited March 1, 2022 by rossjackson01
more information

[Klassiker]

@rossjackson01 are you sure you have all the wheels in the right places?

[Nucejoe]

  On 3/1/2022 at 11:49 PM, rossjackson01 said:

 Bridge tightened and balance is then aligned off (away) from Centre wheel. When bridge fully tight (not massively) then all pivots seize. 

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I can't correctly understand you, locating pins are there to align the cock/ bridges, sounds like defective/ loose/ missing locating pins. 

 

  On 3/1/2022 at 11:49 PM, rossjackson01 said:

 When bridge fully tight (not massively) then all pivots seize. 

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One possible cause is bent bridge, which lowers all jewels. 

 

[jdm]

  On 3/1/2022 at 11:49 PM, rossjackson01 said:

Bridge tightened and balance is then aligned off (away) from Centre wheel.

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I think you mean escape wheel, not balance.

 

  On 3/1/2022 at 11:49 PM, rossjackson01 said:

When bridge fully tight (not massively) then all pivots seize. 

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It is normal for beginners to have major trouble fitting all pivots under the main bridge, especially the escape wheel. You can try fitting one wheel at the time to identify which one seizes. If you have fully tightened the bridge with a pivot out, it may have bent, and all bets are off. 

[watchweasol]

Hi Ross  at this point in the proceedings I tend to agree with jdm's conclusion. The thing to do is to remove the bridge and the wheels, including the balance and fork/pallet  . Then check each wheels pivots for being bent/broken. If they ckeck out ok then fit one at a time checking its seated in the lower jewel then fit the bridge loosely  Then fit a couple of bridge screws loosely to prevent the bridge from moving about but not screwed down. Then manipulate all the wheels into place checking that the end shake is good and the up/ movement is free. When all wheels are in their locations and before screwing down the bridge further check the up/down (end shake) on each wheel. When tightening the screws down do it a degree at a time constantly checking the shake and free dom untill the bridge is seated but not finaly screwed down. At this point check the rotation on the train. Then and oly then tighten the bridge.

[VWatchie]

  On 3/1/2022 at 3:59 PM, Nucejoe said:

didn't know the reason

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And I, in turn, was informed by @nickelsilver! 

[Nucejoe]

  On 3/1/2022 at 11:49 PM, rossjackson01 said:

then all pivots seize. 

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I think you meant the gear train seizes, when a gear does sieze it will keep the entire train from turning, in such a case,  you should  see end shake on some pivots thence  identify the seized one, so there is no need to instal and  test each gear seperately. Shouldn't unneccessarily toy with a movement/part .

Regs

[watchweasol]

Hi  The reasoning behind testing  each wheel is as the plate has been screwed down there mat be a sightly deformed pivot and checking esch individual wheel in its jewels you will be able to locate any duff pivot or a wheel not running flat. It is easier to check the individual rather than the whole. Its a londrawn out method but in the end you are assured that either something is off /broken or running ok. Its just being confident in you diagnosis.

[jdm]

  On 3/2/2022 at 11:24 AM, watchweasol said:

 It is easier to check the individual rather than the whole.

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Indeed. The other day I had a Seiko train strangely seizing and the reason why it did became apparent only when I tested the 4th wheel (center seconds) alone. Reason was that the upper jewel had moved down a tiny bit due to a shock.

Watchmaking It's all about reasoning, inspecting, testing, and even fight gremlins. A procedure that is in the book may prove inconvenient, or you may happen to get things working by sheer luck. In the end, it's the result that counts.
 

[Nucejoe]

 I gradually loosen bridge screws until the train unseize, then turn gears and see if any is not flat.... etc. 

As we disassemble we have a chance to check if the thing does what its suppose to do. 

Regs Joe the 

 

[rossjackson01]

Good to read all the comments.

I place each wheel in the appropriate gems. Each seats ok. None appear bent. Each rotates. The alignment of the balance wheel place the head (cog) away from the Centre wheel. When the Bridge is place, the balance wheel is in the same position, away from the Centre wheel. No cog contact. Photographs attached.