Sourcing hairspring

[spectre6000]

What need do you have for 1K hairsprings? Sounds like a fun project!

[Nucejoe]

24 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

What need do you have for 1K hairsprings? Sounds like a fun project!

Have many vintage Oris watches in need of hairsprings. 

[Nucejoe]

32 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

What need do you have for 1K hairsprings? Sounds like a fun project!

I don't understand French, No luck so far getting a decent translation to English. Machine translation is ambigueous.

I appreciate if a French speaking member translates it.

 

 

[dadistic]

Well, I don't speak French, but I can try a quick translation.

 

SPECIFICATIONS CLIENT

 

Type de spiral : plat          cylindrique        sphérique 

Type of Hairspring: flat    cylindrical  spherical

Inertie du balancier : ………………..g.cm2

Balance inertia:

Fréquence : ………………………...… Hz

Frequency:

Rayon de la virole : ……………….… mm

Radius of the ferrule (collet?)

Diamètre extérieur du spiral : ……….. mm

Hairspring outer diameter:

Hauteur du spiral : …………………... mm (si spiral de forme))

Hairpring height:

N°CGS : …………………….

Yes, CGS number.

Hope this helps.

 

[spectre6000]

1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

Have many vintage Oris watches in need of hairsprings. 

You have ONE THOUSAND Oris watches in need of hairsprings???? All with the same balance? How did you stumble onto such a hoard? That's crazy to think of...

[Nucejoe]

42 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

You have ONE THOUSAND Oris watches in need of hairsprings???? All with the same balance? How did you stumble onto such a hoard? That's crazy to think of...

 Oris manufactured its own hairsprings and used the same in many in- house calibers, 671kif 672, 677,680 ,704.. and many other calibers were vibrated with springs of same CGS No.

I mainly collected Oris calendar pointers.

About 300 calender pointers are in need of good hairspring waiting to join my collection. 

Friends tell me I should start selling , which I don't mind, but as of now, can not sell on ebay neither on any other international sites.  

One would need paypal to transfer funds, all my US accounts have gone dorment now.

Bank charges for fund transfer is almost constant regardless of the amount being trasferred.

Loooonge story.

 

Regs

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, dadistic said:

Well, I don't speak French, but I can try a quick translation.

 

SPECIFICATIONS CLIENT

if you look at the specifications it looks like they're trying to help you out. Which means if you give them the specifications you're balance wheel the frequency where the regulator pins are etc. they will give you hairspring is going to work. Or you probably just give them the CGS and approximately how big it is and you get to do all the rest of the work.

49 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

You have ONE THOUSAND Oris watches in need of hairsprings???? All with the same balance? How did you stumble onto such a hoard? That's crazy to think of...

or if you have 1000 identical watches Swiss watches you could just tell them that and who knows maybe they have the specifications for that.

Then acquiring 1000 watches all identical isn't necessarily that unusual? Not necessarily as impressive as mechanical watches but I once acquired several of thousands identical quartz watches. I was doing after sales service for company that was selling thousands of identical watches and they went out of business so I got the backlog of all the watches. Basically at any one time we had one third of the watches they sold waiting to be serviced in one form or another.

perhaps understand something better I have a link. If you look at the movement you can see it's not a lever escapement it's a relatively inexpensive movement. Which meant somebody had exposure to the service center where they probably just replace the movement and now somebody has thousands of watches needing a hairspring.

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Oris_671

then out of curiosity I looked up the cross reference for the balance complete looks like it will fit several of the watches

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=[^[DXMTJ

now that we've a part number I looked on their website unfortunately according to julesborel.com the only cost $19 but they're out of stock.

then of interest the company is still in business? I'm giving you a link to the history page plus I swiped something off the history page. I'm not a big fan a pin lever escapement's but I do like the model it looks interesting. If you read carefully they weren't allowed to use lever escapement's but in later years they hired an attorney and change the rules so now they can make better grade watches and much farther down the page they apparently have a chronometer. but seeing as how they are still in business who knows maybe you can find somebody with technical knowledge that will explain what hairspring they used or maybe they have balance wheels still in stock lurking in some dark corner the warehouse.

https://www.oris.ch/en/history

 

 

 

 

 

[Nucejoe]

Good idea John, will email them, who knows they might reply with a CGS number.

I suggested sending atlasmicrotech an actual piece if that helps، awaiting reply now.

Interesting a display piece like the one on your post was among the stuff in a Lot of vintage Oris supposedly put aside for me.  These were displayed at dealers windows, where  kids would gather to watch how it works, it displays the working of escapement only, not meant to keep time and no need for epilame fixodrop treatment. haha

Long story short the seller said he meant to just show this dispaly piece , not a part of the Lot , he said.  Asking  outrageous price for it. 

Regs 

Joe

[Nucejoe]

13 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

if you look at the specifications it looks like they're trying to help you out.

You are right John,

In fact Dr Benghalem at atlasmicrotech, has agreed  to examine a sample hairspring and save me all the trouble of comming up with intertia of the wheel and other tech specifications.

Fingers crossed, this endevour will be fruitful.

Will keep you all posted.

Regs 

[Nucejoe]

just out of curiosity , Is calculating a balance moment of intertia a subject of watch repair? 

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Is calculating a balance moment of intertia a subject of watch repair? 

anything on this group could be a subject of watch repair up until a moderator gets upset and terminates it which would be unlikely as long as it stays within horology.

But wouldn't normally be considered a subject to watch repair no. I don't even recall in school when I was learning how to vibrated hairsprings wasn't even a subject at least that what I'm remembering. It would be more of we were going to manufacture a watch. Which is why when you look at the information they asked you they asked you for a whole bunch of different things hoping that you could give them anything so they could give you the correct hairspring. Just in case you didn't have that one magical number of CGS.

[clockboy]

12 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

anything on this group could be a subject of watch repair up until a moderator gets upset and terminates it which would be unlikely as long as it stays within horology.

But wouldn't normally be considered a subject to watch repair no. I don't even recall in school when I was learning how to vibrated hairsprings wasn't even a subject at least that what I'm remembering. It would be more of we were going to manufacture a watch. Which is why when you look at the information they asked you they asked you for a whole bunch of different things hoping that you could give them anything so they could give you the correct hairspring. Just in case you didn't have that one magical number of CGS.

John it is very rare indeed for a post is removed. Us mods are a very tolerant group allowing all views and keeping the forum a friendly place to visit. There is always the “Relax zone” for posts not relating to horological subjects. 
 

[Nucejoe]

 Of those interested in the subject of this thread, some might not have come accross the following calculation method to  select the hairsprings you need. Their prices are considerable if you need one spring.

https://watchparts24.com/Balance-hairspring-with-roller-for-watch-movements-NIVAROX-New-old-stock

It provides you with a tabulated beat factor, which obviously has been worked backwards from original CGS No and dynamics of the oscilator/ spring. 

Regs

Joe

 

 

 

 

[praezis]

What he does: he expands tables - that suppose the beat rate to be 18000 - to different beat rates.

You must still select according his table, with issues already mentioned. He avoids mentioning CGS, but that doesn't make things easier imho.

Frank

N.B. It seems - if I don't commit a fallacy  - his calculation is wrong.

Edited October 14, 2021 by praezis

[JohnR725]

8 hours ago, praezis said:

What he does: he expands tables - that suppose the beat rate to be 18000 - to different beat rates.

You must still select according his table, with issues already mentioned. He avoids mentioning CGS, but that doesn't make things easier imho.

unfortunately I'm not a math whiz but I have a suspicion of what he's trying to do.

then if you look at the very bottom of his advertisement the fine print of "Please note: This is a raw hairspring that needs to be modified and regulated." which is a clever way of saying that it's still a raw hairspring you probably still have to verify by vibrating it and you of course you have to warm the terminal curve etc.

I have a suspicion what he's trying to do is adapt an existing formula. When you learn how to vibrated hairspring and one of those schools influenced by the Swiss they also teach you something else. Then as you can take and hairspring close to whatever you need as long as you know the CGS vibrated and do some math to come up with the correct CGS spring. To understand that I'm attaching some images some light reading for you math whiz.

 

[Nucejoe]

Update, so the ( sample) hairspring  I sent to atlasmicrotech metalab has been analyzied and we now know its  tech specs.

The company has provided excellent customer service, I certainly recommend them to those who may come to  purchases part in bulk. 

Regs

[Nucejoe]

Heres tech specs, in French again, need translation to English just to make sure.

 

[dadistic]

I've got most of it.

Calibre = Caliber

Inertie = Inertia 

Frequence = Frequency

Hauteur = Height

Epaisseur = Thickness

Pas = ?

Dext = Outside Diameter

Dint = Inside Diameter

N CGS = Our friend the CGS number

[Nucejoe]

3 hours ago, dadistic said:

I've got most of it.

Calibre = Caliber

Inertie = Inertia 

Frequence = Frequency

Hauteur = Height

Epaisseur = Thickness

Pas = ?

Dext = Outside Diameter

Dint = Inside Diameter

N CGS = Our friend the CGS number

Hi @dadistic .  Mention was made of currently available spring of closest CGS,   its alawys an aprox to previous aprox, which is understandable , different springs are in demand nowadays than demand in Golden days of mechanical watches.

Have you ever considered making friends with a French girl?  Just for fluency in French ofcourse.

Many thanks for your help.

Regs

[nickelsilver]

Dadistic got it- and pas is the spacing coil to coil.

[Nucejoe]

12 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

Dadistic got it- and pas is the spacing coil to coil.

Hi Niickelsilver, Yes dadistic has been helpful as usual.

Thank you for introducing atlasmicrotech and helping all along. 

its been my long time quest to acquire some hairspring, price has not yet been quoted   fingers crossed it will not be forbidding.

Many thanks to you,

All the best.

Joe

 

 

 

[dadistic]

22 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Have you ever considered making friends with a French girl?  Just for fluency in French ofcourse.

Many thanks for your help.

Regs

Well, no, I think my wife might get suspicious, even if we were just friends!

Not many French speakers around here anyway. I'd have to move to Quebec (Canada). 

Come to think of it ................... Nah.

[Nucejoe]

Update, 

 Price quoted for MOQ 250 pieces was 10SFfr a piece. Not long ago Cousins UK had 704 kif balance complete for €13 .

Didn't need much though I simply had to pass the forbiddingly high quoted price. 

Looks like  hairsprings Swiss manufactures today are good to go in two thousand dollar watches. 

Reg

 

 

[praezis]

Joe, you will hardly get anything from a Swiss manufacturer under a few thousand Francs - no matter what the quantity is.
In fact I think, 10/piece is not too much for a Nivarox hairspring. Was the quote for colleted or for naked hairsprings?

Frank

 

[Nucejoe]

12 minutes ago, praezis said:

Joe, you will hardly get anything from a Swiss manufacturer under a few thousand Francs - no matter what the quantity is.
In fact I think, 10/piece is not too much for a Nivarox hairspring. Was the quote for colleted or for naked hairsprings?

Frank

 

10 Sfr/ piece for Colleted spring. 

I best practice my Mandarin, its back to Chinese producers for me. 

Regs