Enthusiast Considering A Career

[Barsomn]

Hello All! My name is Miles and I've been (more seriously) into watches since 2014, but after a few mods and basic regulation (without a timegrapher mind you) I just wore and enjoyed, taking pieces to a professional if I ever ran into an issue.

 

Fast forward 7 years, my fiancée asked me why I never went to watchmaking school. I started looking up the NAIOSW in Dallas, it is slowly becoming a career goal. I will be applying to get certified in the next 5 years. First I need to actually be accepted for the 2023-2024 class year. Plus I would have to move away from my home state to Texas. I am extremely motivated individual, when I want something I get it. Even if that takes a lot of commitment and follow-through. 

With that out of the way, I am simply passionate about horology, the history and the craft. I was not born independently wealthy so the focus is not on luxury metals or materials but simply mechanical efficiency, complication, and longevity. Gotta love it when a watch is built well and keeps good time.

I'm going to get as much experience as I can before going to school for watchmaking, starting with work on my own humble collection, and expanding to buying refurbished or broken pieces and attempting to repair them. As of now I have a basic, cheap set of tools, a timegrapher, and patience but limited time. I am good at regulation, but have not completely disassembled a movement yet. Mods of the past were done with aftermarket dials, hands; I have a little experience in mixing and applying lume as well. Mostly, I need help troubleshooting what a problem might be and I have used this forum as a resource for years without joining. it was time to take the plunge.

Thank you for being a part of this exciting journey, cheers!

 

 

 

[Klassiker]

Good luck, and please keep us up-to-date with your progress.

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Barsomn said:

I would have to move away from my home state to Texas.

out of curiosity what state are you in?

1 hour ago, Barsomn said:

NAIOSW

schools with initials aren't very informative as to what they are so I Google. I have the link below.

That I'm curious what drew you to this school versus all the other schools in the US?

linehttps://www.iosw.com/en/school-dallas-3/

[Barsomn]

58 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

out of curiosity what state are you in?

Florida, and I have lived here for my whole life.

 

58 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

That I'm curious what drew you to this school versus all the other schools in the US?

Good point on the link, I wasn't sure if it was faux pas to link but I suppose it's non-commercial so thank you for adding that to the thread!

I will never live in south FL for the Miami school, and my SO has family and friends in Texas we could be close to. Outside of that it seems like the closest viable solution for a WOSTEP (Watchmakers of Switzerland Training and Educational Program) Certification.

With a broader view, I would be happy to work for a larger company to accrue some professional experience after schooling but the end goal is an independent practice so long as I could afford to work for myself. (Health benefits, retirement benefits, etc.)

I'm open to opinions, comments, and options though. Maybe there's another solution I am not considering? The tough part is convincing my fiancée. She was actually the driving force behind this idea... At least I know I found someone who will back my passions even if it means a pay cut for some time.

[JohnR725]

15 minutes ago, Barsomn said:

I will never live in south FL for the Miami school,

as a shame so close and yet so far? In case anyone's curious about what were talking about there's a school in Florida it's found at the link below. it's also I believe another free school with the only requirement you purchase tools which I think cost a couple of thousand dollars tool kits tend to be quite pricey.

https://www.nghayekwatchmakingschool.com/

18 minutes ago, Barsomn said:

With a broader view, I would be happy to work for a larger company to accrue some professional experience after schooling but the end goal is an independent practice so long as I could afford to work for myself. (Health benefits, retirement benefits, etc.)

the good and bad of schools? The good of the school is you get a good solid background and you get a nifty certificate that opens doors. The bad they don't have enough time to teach you everything. The other bad thing is what do they think you're being taught and why? in other words when you getting free education what do they think you're going to do with that? My suspicion is they would be really happy if you would go and work for there service centers. They probably not actually going to teach you to be a independent watchmaker.

.Advantage of going out working for just about anyone is it gives you additional experiences.

 

 

[Barsomn]

It's true, Miami is geographically close. The city however is horrible to live in/around. We are considering moving out of the state anyway, Dallas just gave us the right distance from home that didn't involve moving up north. Your link is valid, the Hayek school would have been a more-local option.

 

58 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

the good and bad of schools? The good of the school is you get a good solid background and you get a nifty certificate that opens doors. The bad they don't have enough time to teach you everything. The other bad thing is what do they think you're being taught and why? in other words when you getting free education what do they think you're going to do with that? My suspicion is they would be really happy if you would go and work for there service centers. They probably not actually going to teach you to be a independent watchmaker.

.Advantage of going out working for just about anyone is it gives you additional experiences.

 

 

All valid points I would consider.

I only have an Associates Degree (two year college degree for those not in the states) at the moment and work in an Engineering field for Industrial Refrigeration Control Systems. It is a very technical job but not too hard once you get the basics down.

This same thought translates to a pursuit of watchmaking, but I view it more as an art form once the basics are mastered. No two watches are exactly identical, but at the same time the fundamental technology has been the same for over a century, albeit with improvements in materials sciences and manufacturing ability.

It would not be impossible to imagine working for a service center after getting the certification. The thoughts of working for myself are at least a decade out, after plenty of day to day experience and the insurance of a larger company to supply backing. It's more a point of driving my tenacity, my pride of work/craftsmanship has translated to nearly every job I've held so it only seemed natural to make that transition one day.

 

Also, thank you for conversing about all this. I appreciate having a sounding board for these ideas. For now this is very much still a hobby and I would love to buy the proper tools to get a couple of pieces apart and back together again.

-M

Edited August 12, 2021 by Barsomn

[Nucejoe]

Welcome to WRT forum and good luck with your career plans.

[Klassiker]

Have a look at this link to someone who has gone before and encountered similar issues.

https://learnwatchmaking.com/about-and-contact/

[oldhippy]

Thank you for your introduction and welcome to this friendly forum.

It must be very frustrating for you. I wish you all the best in your quest.

[clockboy]

Welcome Miles, enjoy the forum and best of luck with your career ambitions.

[Barsomn]

Thanks for the support all!

@Klassiker - thank you for the link, resources are slim in regards to actual experience with one of these schools.

I checked with my local watchmaker yesterday while picking up a watch from service (they are a pair of brothers actually,) and they said their father passed the craft down to them. Eventually they got certified as a formality for their customers but only after a lengthy apprenticeship with their father.

The thought I have always held is: most professionalism in watchmaking can be chalked up to experience or knowledge passed down through time. Through whatever means.

Much like the true cobblers, jewelry makers, artisans: watchmaking in itself is an art that is becoming more and more scarce due to the progress of automation.

It is my understanding that, part of this path would be acquiring knowledge on the subject through whatever means possible in order to further the lineage of a craft that we are all passionate about. What is the next generation of watchmakers? What happens when those with the skills age out and retire?

I am young, but I would hate to see a future of horology dominated by wrist-sized computers 30 years from now. This is coming from someone who makes a living in technology and builds computers for fun. There is simply too much history to cast aside for the convenience of answering a text message on your watch. 

No one will pass an Apple Watch down to their kin, so if I can impact even just a few lives by one day restoring their heirloom watch so it is fit for the next generation, I would consider myself lucky.

[LittleWatchShop]

On 8/12/2021 at 10:26 AM, Barsomn said:

move away from my home state to Texas

Texas is great.  Dallas...meh.

Good luck!!

[nickelsilver]

8 hours ago, Barsomn said:

It is my understanding that, part of this path would be acquiring knowledge on the subject through whatever means possible in order to further the lineage of a craft that we are all passionate about. What is the next generation of watchmakers? What happens when those with the skills age out and retire?

 

Yes to the bold print.

 

There are several directions one can go as a professional watchmaker and none are better or worse than the other. By far most watchmakers don't ever make anything; an in depth repair would be restaffing a balance. If they are competent they will be able to diagnose and adjust escapements and true balance springs to factory spec. The above is the bulk of the famed (and now defunct) WOSTEP Refresher Course. It was a  course meant for professionals with a minimum of 5 years of work under their belt already. Despite the frivolous name, it was a grueling 20 week course that had more than a few burnouts in that relatively short time- and when they handed you your paper you absolutely knew how to set up an escapement, vibrate hairsprings (not that 99.999% would ever do it after the course, but you knew hairsprings then), could perfectly restaff a balance and true any wheel and so forth. I.E. you were a very competent  bench watchmaker.

 

With the above skills you can work for a brand or group, a store or watch repair center, or as an independent. It's satisfying work, and as an independent you quickly develop the skills to source unobtanium parts without losing too much time too, haha.

 

If you are more focused on the "making" aspect that's a smaller niche, but sparsely populated. The investment in tools and machines is substantial, as well as the investment in finding mentors and spending time with them and simply learning from reading and experience. A watchmaker who goes down this path really has to love the making aspect, as the pitfalls become deeper and the monetary reward not necessarily bigger.

 

Whichever way one goes, continual learning is essential. I am independent and share a workshop space with several other watchmakers, ranging in experience from equal to fresh out of school, and we are all constantly learning from each other. Us older ones have all worked in numerous places too, the idea of "journeyman" comes from spending time learning in different places learning from different people.

 

Often the most important thing to learn is what not to do.

 

 

[LittleWatchShop]

11 hours ago, Barsomn said:

I am young, but I would hate to see a future of horology dominated by wrist-sized computers 30 years from now.

You are not the first to grasp this.  My Dad had a watchmaker working for him...his name was Victor.  I was young and working at the shop helping out.  I was fascinated with the new LED watches that had just come out. (Ultimately, I became a technologist...maybe those watches inspired me)  Victor said to me, that there was no lasting value in those circuit boards...no beauty.  He was right, and I never forgot him saying it.  Perhaps it was that gnawing remembrance that drew me back to watchmaking after so many years.  Who knows?

[Plato]

8 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

there was no lasting value in those circuit boards...no beauty.

Maybe in a few years from now practical electronics skills might be as esteemed as watchmaking is now? Some early quartz watches are fascinating... I draw the line at 'smart' watches though!!

[LittleWatchShop]

Well, in retrospect, some beauty does lie in the world of electronics. I spent my 40+ yr career as an integrated circuit designer. Some IC layouts were quite beautiful in the early days when you could make out the various layers. 

[Plato]

2 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Some IC layouts were quite beautiful in the early days

Could the image on this dial be an actual circuit layout or is it an artistic representation?

[Plato]

On 8/12/2021 at 4:26 PM, Barsomn said:

Hello All! My name is Miles

Good luck Miles, sorry for veering off topic with my electronics questions.

[LittleWatchShop]

3 hours ago, Plato said:

Could the image on this dial be an actual circuit layout or is it an artistic representation?

Could very well be.  The orange traces would have to represent two different layers because they overlap in a way that seems unlikely.  At any rate, ICs do look like this.  I will attach an image of my very first chip.

[dadistic]

Funny, I googled MK5387 and what came back filling the whole first page was a Michael Kors watch

Cheers.

[dadistic]

Got it!

Mostek DTMF tone generator, yes?

Very Cool.

[LittleWatchShop]

7 minutes ago, dadistic said:

Funny

It is funny indeed.  This device is from 1979...long since out of production.

[LittleWatchShop]

2 minutes ago, dadistic said:

Got it!

Mostek DTMF tone generator, yes?

Very Cool.

Yes

[Barsomn]

20 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

There are several directions one can go as a professional watchmaker and none are better or worse than the other. 

Often the most important thing to learn is what not to do.

I did take your whole message to heart, just wanted to follow up by replying to a few points as well.

My watch journey has been just that, buying and selling. Spending only within my budget but really to acquire tastes and learn what I appreciated. The way a Swiss watch feels vs. their Japanese counterparts. Indian, Russian, Chinese mechanicals, even some cased in the US albeit without a true US calibre. I like variety and I appreciate the differences between watches of the world.

So learning how they work was a big part of the experience for me which has allowed me to value design and execution. I'm approaching taking them apart and putting them back together with the same mindset, it is indeed a journey. I'm starting now so I can eventually make it an option for livelihood, with a little luck. If that means working in service for a while to have some steady income and possibly benefits, personal feelings aside it is a job and I would want to support my family. Some sacrifices must be made in order to keep that learning continuous and still live a comfortable life if I am to combine passions and career aspirations.

[Barsomn]

5 hours ago, Plato said:

Good luck Miles, sorry for veering off topic with my electronics questions.

Quite all right, my day job is in electronics so I find it fascinating too. Isn't forum loosely defined as a place where all meet to converse and offer their opinions anyway? It's no fun if I'm the only one in my first thread!

Edited August 14, 2021 by Barsomn