Fitting new unused cannon pinion

[canthus]

I am currently messing about with a Chaika 1601 movement which had a very loose cannon pinion (gears turned but hands not moving). I tried nipping it up but managed to mess it up, so it is of no use now. I have got a new unused cannon pinion but it just slips on and has obviously not been crimped (is this normal?).  

To fit/crimp it to the centrewheel pinion, do I crimp it in situ (I have a tool that will do this) or do I do it away from the pinion (I do not have a core pin that is small or hard enough to fit, so cannot do it off the movement). The movement is from a ladies watch and the cannon pinion is very small with the bore about 0.3mm.

[watchweasol]

Hi  Have a rifle through the wifes sewing basket for a pin/needle to fit the bore of the cannon. I prefer to use a small chistle  punch to close them as you can do it by degrees slowly and check after each tap. The use of blunt top cutters has less control. Have a look on the bay for canon pinion tools, might be cheaper than buying new ones.

[clockboy]

There are many methods to tighten a cannon pinion BUT the key is a controlled pressure when nipping and supporting the inside at the same time. 

[VWatchie]

12 hours ago, canthus said:

To fit/crimp it to the centrewheel pinion, do I crimp it in situ (I have a tool that will do this)

I'm curious about what tool you use? Personally I have Bergeon's cannon pinion tightener, and "Seitz Jewelling Pushers and Stake for Lanterning Cannon Pinions". I imagine none of these tools would be ideal for a ladies watch cannon pinion, so that's why I'm curious.

12 hours ago, canthus said:

I do not have a core pin that is small or hard enough to fit, so cannot do it off the movement

To hold the cannon pinion as I tighten it, I carve a piece of peg wood that I stick into the bore of the cannon pinion.

Edited March 7, 2020 by VWatchie
clarification

[jdm]

18 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

To hold the cannon pinion as I tighten it, I carve a piece of peg wood that I stick into the bore of the cannon pinion.

As per OP, the bore is 0.3mm. Can't imagine using wood in there would be practical. I'd rather go with watchweasol's advice.

Edited March 7, 2020 by jdm

[Graziano]

Hi there, I have used this tool for a long time and it is fantastic I have also got one for pocket watches. They come up every now and then, worth the investment. That's an omega 485 ladies movement cannon pinion fitted. 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Graziano

[VWatchie]

12 hours ago, watchweasol said:

I prefer to use a small chistle  punch to close them as you can do it by degrees slowly and check after each tap.

As mentioned in my previous post I have Bergeon's cannon pinion tightener, and "Seitz Jewelling Pushers and Stake for Lanterning Cannon Pinions" so I'm curious about your "chistle punch". I'm not not english speaking and translating this to my native language it just Google translates to "screwdriver" 

[VWatchie]

38 minutes ago, jdm said:

As per OP, the bore is 0.3mm. Can't imagine using wood in there would be practical. I'd rather go with watchweasol's advice.

Well, I just thought it could possibly be an option to try in case the OP doesn't have a wife in his toolbox.

[watchweasol]

  Hi a chistle punch is a small screwdriver ended hard punch. the cannon is mounted on a fixed chistle shaped stump  and the loose punch taps down of the nipping point to slightly indent the cannon for the friction fit.  There are purpose build tools for the job, I made one years back, cant find it now it will be somewhere in a box.

[watchweasol]

Hi Graziano  that tool does exactly the same job but uses a screw  others use a small punch to do the job. I think your tool is better as it has micro adjust which is more controllable

[canthus]

Thanks for all your responses and ideas.  I am only a hobbyist and rarely encounter loose pinions, so expensive tools are not really an option.  I have been through the sewing box but no needle fine enough, will have a look for one next time I,m out shopping.  I have made a tool from an old pair of nail clippers.  The sharp edge has been taken off and  a screw (8BA) fitted, with locking nut, into one of the arms so that the gap can be limited and fine adjusted.  It works OK with about the same care as needed for similar tools.  I am trying to improve its rigidity for better control (cost so far zero !). 

As I asked in my original post, would it be ok to crimp onto the centrewheel shaft whilst it is still in the movement?

[watchweasol]

Hi Canthus  Thats a nifty idea you have come up with,   It  will probably be safe enough to do what you suggest, The only drawback I can see is if you nip it up a bit too tight you may never get it off again, Doing it with a mandrel in side and fitting onto the shaft will enable you to remove it again using a cannon pinion remover.

[obsoletewatchparts]

the c/p needs to be tightened OFF the center wheel.

its a friction fit so it will not tighten when in place, it needs to be tightened on preferably a brass tapered wire.

Dont forget to apply a smear of grease or thick oil on the center wheel post so that the c/p does not seize or wear loose.

especially in calendar watches were there is no rapid date setting. 

john

[canthus]

OK thanks.  I did try a piece of brass wire in the old cannon, but I think it was too soft and I over-crimped it, and now can't get it out, that why it is no longer useful !!   I'll try and find a steel needle and try again off the movement.

I just love this forum, members are so helpful to us non-professionals.