B-Dip residue?

[pent]

So I was cleaning an especially dirty balance spring with B-dip because several turns were sticking together.  However, after a wash and dry, it seems there are more turns sticking due to the B-Dip.  I can see it clearly in-between the spring turns and it is not evaporating.  I even stretched the spring upwards a bit to let them air out and they continue to stick.  This is after two washes.  You can still see the liquid between the springs.

Not sure if anyone has seen this, but I don't know if this is an indicator of my dip going bad or being contaminated.  I would rise with IPA, but the stud and collet aren't pinned--they are either glued or shellacked so I won't risk it.  If I keep seeing this, I'll probably switch back to a heptane or naphtha for this type of cleaning, but I wanted to see if anyone else has seen this with B-Dip. 

[KarlvonKoln]

One-dip or naphtha should be safe, but are you sure it isn't magnetized?  I would also check that.  Although, if that balance is from an Elgin 760 0r 761, I would think it would have a hairspring of non-magnetic alloy.

[pent]

On 5/5/2024 at 8:44 PM, KarlvonKoln said:

One-dip or naphtha should be safe, but are you sure it isn't magnetized?  I would also check that.  Although, if that balance is from an Elgin 760 0r 761, I would think it would have a hairspring of non-magnetic alloy.

Yes, threw it on the demagnetizer before I cleaned it to be sure.  This picture doesn't show it well, but I can definitely see liquid where the turns meet up.

[KarlvonKoln]

You could also use a very fine artist's brush to brush between the coils.  If you get a size 00 or even 000 that should be small enough for convenience, and with bristles so fine that they are incapable of damaging the hairspring.  Get a good one though, like Windsor-Newton or similar.  I have never had a Windsor-Newton brush shed on my art or other work.  You want a soft brush that will not shed.

Edited May 8 by KarlvonKoln

[Waggy]

On 5/6/2024 at 4:44 AM, KarlvonKoln said:

are you sure it isn't magnetized?

I was about to ask the same question, it sounds a lot like magnetism which is a quick fix (assuming you have access to the correct tool) and ideally something you should do anyway.

[HectorLooi]

Sometimes a sticky hairspring might unravel after using a demagnetizer. But if you push the coils until they touch, they will stick together again.

I find that brushing the coils gently while submerged in naptha the most effective way to cure a sticky hairspring. Sometimes it requires 2 or 3 washes to cure it.

I often wondered what causes a hairspring to become sticky. The 9010 in the jewels are unlikely to drip onto the hairspring. The other possibility is the 9415 on the pallets. But then that's on the other side, below the balance. Can it "splash" onto the hairspring? 

Looking at the stickiness and tenacity, I'm leaning towards 9415.

[Waggy]

Forgot to mention that only demagnetize a balance when its in the movement, otherwise the magnetic field will snatch the coils and damage them

[pent]

Well, this stickiness was only on 1 or 2 turns at first.  After using the B-Dip, I can actually manipulate the the turns in such a way that ALL of them stick on one side and I can pull them apart and you will still see a few sticking still so there is either residue from the B-dip or the initial crud that B-dip didn't remove.  

What bothers me most is that I can still see liquid in-between the turns holding them together, as if the dip didn't completely evaporate.  When I get a chance, I'm going to try an alcohol or lighter fluid dip and see what happens.  I don't have a very fine brush for this, so that might have to be the next step.

[Neverenoughwatches]

16 minutes ago, pent said:

Well, this stickiness was only on 1 or 2 turns at first.  After using the B-Dip, I can actually manipulate the the turns in such a way that ALL of them stick on one side and I can pull them apart and you will still see a few sticking still so there is either residue from the B-dip or the initial crud that B-dip didn't remove.  

What bothers me most is that I can still see liquid in-between the turns holding them together, as if the dip didn't completely evaporate.  When I get a chance, I'm going to try an alcohol or lighter fluid dip and see what happens.  I don't have a very fine brush for this, so that might have to be the next step.

I use a nylon bristle from a brush to run around the coils or a thin piece of copper wire, you need .1 - .15mm.

Edited May 9 by Neverenoughwatches

[Geotex]

We think about these preps as "one-dips" partly because they are terrific solvents but also because the parts they are used on are often cleaner in general than many other parts. But old oils petrify, and even something like B-Dip can't clean up over-soiled parts without some extra effort, as mentioned above. There is an intermediate step during cleaning where the solvent can partially dissolve tarry residues so they have a more liquid varnish-like consistency, and that could well be what you are seeing on the coils after two washes. I wouldn't worry that your B-Dip was contaminated before you used it on this hairspring, but it I wouldn't re-use that aliquot AFTER this cleaning!

[oldhippy]

Demagnetize it first and the tools you are using. Get yourself a tin of  Ronsonol lighter fluid. A small jar with a screw on lid. Put the balance in that for a few minutes, get some tissue paper put the balance on that then dry with you bench blower, oil both staff pivots and put it back in the movement. This is what I always used to do never had any problems. I have tried one dip and it was rubbish a waste of money. Ronsonol is very friendly to shellac so no worries there.