Seiko 5 6309a

[Dave84]

Hi guys 

Hope you are all well.

I have a 6309a movement that came as part of a Seiko 5 'ebay special' I bought last year. 

It would run for a few seconds and then stop again.

The hairspring had a bit of a kink in it which I very gently 'straightened' but the same problem occurred.

Strangely, the watch would run for a while but when I put the case back on and turned it face up, it would stop, every time. 

Also, the oscillating weight feels very slack despite the screw being tight. 

Any ideas of what it could be or advice on where to start with fault findings id be very grateful. 

Thanks in advance.

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Dave84

[jdm]

First, the hairsping in the picture is unacceptably distorted, many topics on the subject of correcting an HS and the difficulty of the task - high. If you want to show how an HS looks like, remove cock, lay it down and shoot from above.

Then, fault finding consist of taking the entire mov't apart, clean it the best possible, inspect every part under magnification, pivots, jewel, gear teeth for damage. Put it back in the most basic form and test every function, end shake of every wheel  etc. You can do that even without oiling because it will run anyway, not perfectly but it must not stop. Again, the forum has many many repetitive threads, which will tell you always the same things, just as any book would.

Edited January 18, 2020 by jdm

[oldhippy]

jdm has saved me from writing up. Just to say that hairspring is in a right old mess. 

[jdm]

18 minutes ago, Dave84 said:

Also, the oscillating weight feels very slack despite the screw being tight. 

This is also often asked. It's common for ball bearings to be a bit lose or noisy, especially after decades of use without any lubrication. The screw has not effect whatsoever as it's there to just keep it in place. As long the weight doesn't touch anywhere, and the watch winds, all is good.

[Dave84]

Thank you guys 

Little bit apprehensive, as I have only ever fully dismantled and rebuilt a pocket watch movement, but I do want to try. 

much appreciated as always. 

 

[Shane]

Take heart, my Seiko 5`s hairspring came in looking like a bird's nest also.

I forgot to get a photo of it just before it went back in, it looked somewhat  better than the second photo shown.  It's now running (though out of beat and unregulated) but still needs to be torn down to flush out the quart of oil someone added.

 

[saswatch88]

7 hours ago, Dave84 said:

Thank you guys 

Little bit apprehensive, as I have only ever fully dismantled and rebuilt a pocket watch movement, but I do want to try. 

much appreciated as always. 

 

Watch stopping dial up could mean a broken/bent staff, or cracked balance jewel, so you most likely have that issue on top of the hairspring. Suffices to say your entire balance assemble is shot. As far the rotor, it has to do with the ball bearings, nothing to do with the screw.

I appreciate your willingness to try and fix this movement, as you know these 3 o’clock 6309s are very cheap a running complete watch just like the one you have can be purchased for $25. I understand you want the learning experience so i suggest you disassemble, check every part, replace parts as needed from running donor Incl. balance ass. And rotor bearings, oil properly, then reassemble. When learning its good to have donors laying around, sourcing parts from a donor that’s running is a big plus because at least you know the parts your replacing will actually work.

[watchweasol]

Hi Dave this could be handy 6309 tech sheets

276_Seiko6309A.pdf

[Nucejoe]

May be it is not in as bad of a shape as we think, how about taking the balance out to see more details.

[jdm]

Just as an example here some pictures of what I think is, at least visually, the minimum acceptable "look" for a Seiko hairsping installed installed on cock, which can be very different from picturing the separated hairspring. I have corrected the HS to the best of my abilities, which have slowly improved with practice. This one had a single kink caused by my own mis-handling about middle of the outer coil which affected both planes. I am including also a picture of the upper pivot because one has always to check both!
To my dismay, it ran as in barely swinging, so having a new spare I replaced it, probably in too much hurry. Then had trouble with the new one also, but with some patience found the problem, as in the HS rubbing on the balance spoke, there is a really minimal clearance there. Some more manipulation, and finally at least it started running good 

Edited January 19, 2020 by jdm

[Dave84]

I will get the balance off tomorrow and post the pic, but looking at the pics JDM posted above I think mines shot. I will also check the staff and jewels as an observation, (thanks for the tip saswatch88) and will start looking for a donor, I'm likely to need one and Id like to use the movement in a diver case or at least with a different dial.  

Thanks for the tech sheet watchweasol that's very helpful. 

Much appreciated, as always guys. 

[Dave84]

Hi guys

Just an update.

I set about dismantling the movement yesterday, it was going surprisingly well for a first attempt.  I did notice a few framework screws missing on the automatic device side.

Reassembly went smoothly until I noticed my setting lever axle was missing, so I have stopped there. 

To get it ticking again it seems to need a few  framework screws, a setting lever axle, and the balance complete as i'm pretty sure its had it.

Now on the search for a donor movement.  

Thanks 

Dave 

 

 

[Nucejoe]

Is HS collet the removable type? Possible to sort out the HS.

[jdm]

47 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Is HS collet the removable type? Possible to sort out the HS.

No. At the time Seiko had already adopted the practice of listing and commercializing the balance complete only. 

[Dave84]

I found the setting lever axle, In my cleaning machine .. 

Also, a rogue frame screw took out a jewel from the pallet fork .. (rookie) 

Good news: Found a donor movement, and its on its way. hopefully it has what I need from it :-) 

[Dave84]

I have a small predicament to share with you guys. 

My donor movement arrived today and unexpectedly it came to life with a shake. After a quick inspection the minute hand appears loose as its dragging across the dial markers. I inserted my own crown and it set date and time function but wouldn't wind up.

Otherwise, from the outside at least the donor movement doesn't appears to have had half as hard of a life as the one I am attempting to repair. I am tempted to use the donor movement as the ''keeper''. and now use the watch I was repairing for parts.  

Anyone else been in this position before ?

[jdm]

41 minutes ago, Dave84 said:

I inserted my own crown and it set date and time function but wouldn't wind up.

What do you mean? It is automatic only. 

41 minutes ago, Dave84 said:

I am tempted to use the donor movement as the ''keeper''. and now use the watch I was repairing for parts.

External look may mean little. You should use the one which has better performances on the timegrapher, after accurate servicing. Unless you just want it to run "for show". 

[Dave84]

Hi jdm

 

Yes, it is automatic only although I have not yet owned a ''working'' 6309a so this might be normal ?

I would certainly like to wear it and for it to run accurately, so it looks like a timegrapher will be on the shopping list when funds allow. 

[jdm]

12 minutes ago, Dave84 said:

Yes, it is automatic only although I have not yet owned a ''working'' 6309a so this might be normal ?

Well, let's put it this way: you can't manually wind an "automatic only" turning the crown. But you can shake it, or wind at the barrel.

12 minutes ago, Dave84 said:

I would certainly like to wear it and for it to run accurately, so it looks like a timegrapher will be on the shopping list when funds allow. 

You can't do with mechanical watch work without a timegrapher. An hardware one is practical but you can save a bunch using an app and an arranged microphone.

[Dave84]

That would explain why it wouldn't wind.. 

 

[watchweasol]

Hi Dave  If a time grapher is not on the list yet  have a look at the  watch-o=scope software to run on a pc , Developed by a contributor a while ago. If you use the lite(demo)version and build the amplifier    plus pickup  It is well capable and produces some usefull data. There is the full details on the web and if successful the full license costs approx £40 for unlimited use.

[Dave84]

Thanks watchweasol 

That's definitely an option, id like a time grapher but they are a pretty expensive piece of kit for me, at this stage anyway.