Jump to content

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, ifibrin said:

Which seems entirely opposite to this reasoning

Not necessarily. If you run the movement dry for a short period then the (hopefully) the contact between the end of the pivot and the cap jewel will wear away the epilame where the oil is needed. I guess you would have to run the movement in all positions to account for clearences and to ensure that the epilame is removed where it needs to be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Marc said:

Not necessarily. If you run the movement dry for a short period then the (hopefully) the contact between the end of the pivot and the cap jewel will wear away the epilame where the oil is needed. I guess you would have to run the movement in all positions to account for clearences and to ensure that the epilame is removed where it needs to be.

I mean that the epilame coating is supposed to be oleophobic, as seen by the oil droplet being a tight ball and not spreading (think of a drop of water on top of a Teflon pan), yet this is good because the oil droplet is stuck there and won’t spread.

Apparently, the epilame surface is oleophobic enough to prevent the oil from spreading, but adhesive enough to keep the oil in place?

Ive not heard of running the cap jewel dry to remove the epilame coating on a point of cap jewels, only for pallet fork pivots.

Edited by ifibrin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think if the entire surface is epilame treated, oil deposited will stay fixed in position. If there’s a surface that is partially epilame treated, oil will migrate from the epilame coated surface to the untreated surface.

This means that the epilame is oil repelling, but if the entire surface is oil repelling, the oil will not migrate. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Marc said:

The idea is that it is an oil repellent.

And I think of it as an oil attractor! In my experience it works a bit like a magnet. That is, even tough the surrounding areas are magnetic (epilame treated) the ferrous object (oil) doesn't readily move from one spot to another. Your reasoning makes a lot of sense though, but it would also mean that you would have to be using the entire watch dry to wear off the epilame before you oil it. Except for cap jewels and pallet jewels I epilame treat most parts of the winding and setting mechanism and I believe it would take too long to reach a state were the epilame has worn off sufficiently. That is, the dry jewel holes would start to act abrasive on the pivots and on other friction points where there's metal to metal. Anyway, it's a complex topic worth reasoning around.

Edited by VWatchie
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Don't know if anyone else noticed this but Moebious are now doing a slightly cheaper route into using their Fixodrop, Moebius 8981 Fixodrop (Ready to Use), 10ml

Supplied in a small application bottle with mesh filter built into the bottle, only 10ml but also under £30, should do a few pallets and end stones and a cheaper route into seeing if an Epelame works as claimed, at that price even I may get some.

I wonder what the evaporation time is for 10ml in a none pinched neck bottle.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Paul80 said:

I wonder what the evaporation time is for 10ml in a none pinched neck bottle.

you have to go and look at their website supposedly a the chemistry is changed with the solvent is an's as volatile as it used to be and then the indication was of course it wouldn't of app rate is much.

Because the old stuff eventually would just evaporate out of a tightly sealed bottle. Your eventually left with the empty bottle with a small amount of residue in the bottom of the bottle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I have come across a different brand of epilam.

Does anybody have experience with it? I want to buy it to service a few eta automatic movements.

This are the specs

 

Product information 

LRCB Eco 50, epilam, ready-to-use solution, 20 ml

Color: Clear

Contents: 20 ml

Density: 1,43 g/ml (20 °C)

Operating temperature range: < 150 °C

Product area: Adhesives, lubricants & chemicals

Shape: Epilame

Viscosity: Low

Weight (kg): 0.043

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't used LRCB stuff but they are reputed to be equal to Moebius. I'm sure they think they are superior! The big problem for a horological oil maker is the fact that all manufacturers use and recommend Moebius, or perhaps some in house lubricant, so it's an even smaller market for a small maker like LRCB. I am curious to try their epilame, but I have two 100ml bottles of Fixodop on the shelf so it will be a while.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually wanted to buy fixodrop v105 but Beco does not sell it anymore that is why I stumbled upon this one.

Do you think it will do the same? I need it for reverser wheels.

I never buy anything from Moebius just do not like there prices 🙂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Tony13 said:

I actually wanted to buy fixodrop v105 but Beco does not sell it anymore that is why I stumbled upon this one.

Do you think it will do the same? I need it for reverser wheels.

I never buy anything from Moebius just do not like there prices 🙂

I'm sure it will work at least as well as Fixodrop. 👍

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any reason you not using the smaller fixodrop bottle?

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/8981-fixodrop-esbs10-ready-to-use?code=M61650

I've been using it for a few weeks now and the fact that it is ready to use (having a sieve integrated into the bottle) helps keep the eventual price down. Obviously you want to make sure that whatever you put in there is perfectly clean so as not to spoil the contents. But even 10ml will last a long time for hobbyist use and for 25GBP it's not as painful as buying a 100ml bottle

Edited by gbyleveldt
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Paul80 said:

As Boley dont supply to us mere mortals, anyone know where I can order the Dr Tillwich Antispread in the UK or an EU supplier that ships to the UK.

I bought it here (ships to UK):

https://www.uhrmacherwerkzeuge.com/epages/62662707.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectPath=%2FShops%2F62662707%2FProducts%2F4439.1420

56 minutes ago, gbyleveldt said:

Any reason you not using the smaller fixodrop bottle?

It seems to evaporate quite fast. So with 100ml I feel being on the save side.

I didn‘t know about the integrated sieve of the 10ml Fixodrop. Good info!

A picture from the Cousins website:
4B593D24-E70C-4C2D-B9EE-0F670080A590.thumb.jpeg.97288dea569fe151521834b9d8f90cf2.jpeg

Edited by Kalanag
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

It seems to evaporate quite fast. So with 100ml I feel being on the save side. I didn‘t know about the integrated sieve. Good info!
 

Yes it does evaporate fast so you need to obviously keep that in mind and not leave the bottle open unnecessarily. That being said the smaller size and integrated sieve does make it a lot cheaper to start using it in your workflow, as opposed to having to spend 4 times that on 100ml and another 4 times that on a suitable decanting bottle. If I was using it every day that would be another story of course. 

Edited by gbyleveldt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, gbyleveldt said:

…integrated sieve does make it a lot cheaper to start using it in your workflow, as opposed to having to spend 4 times that on 100ml and another 4 times that on a suitable decanting bottle…

I don‘t feel the need for a decanting bottle. I just dip the parts in for a view seconds with my tweezers.

Edited by Kalanag
Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

I don‘t feel the need for a decanting bottle. I just dip the parts in for a view seconds with my tweezers.

Heh I agree you don't need it. I just mention it as there was just a long thread on one of the FB groups about it the other day where certain people INSISTED on using a decanting bottle because it's "accepted practice".

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually just started using Fixodrop, thanks to the new 10ml bottle, I made a mark on the bottle label so I can see how quick it's disappearing.

On a side note I was a little sceptical about this product and was more than happy not to pay the obscene amount Moebious ask for their bigger bottles. Only used it a few times but can already see that it does actually seem to work, now when I add the drop of oil to the pallet stone it stays on the stone, before no matter how careful I was adding it as soon as it hit the stone it would start running down the side of the stone.

At least it only cost £30 to be converted, I would never have tried it if I had to buy a big bottle and the even more obscenely priced applicator bottle.  Now Alli need is to just buy the bigger bottle and refill the small one when it eventually empties, through use or evaporation;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

At least it only cost £30 to be converted, I would never have tried it if I had to buy a big bottle and the even more obscenely priced applicator bottle.  Now Alli need is to just buy the bigger bottle and refill the small one when it eventually empties, through use or evaporation;)

Haha that was exactly my thinking as well. For 25GBP I was curious, for 180GBP all in not so much. And yes I'm also pretty impressed with how well it works. When you oil the exit stone and it rubs against the escape tooth, you could see the grease spreading unevenly before. Now the grease sticks to only the face of the tooth, not running up the length anymore.

Now that you bring it up, it does make sense to keep the cheap 10ml bottle and just buy the 100ml to refill the smaller one. Good thinking!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Paul80 said:

Only used it a few times but can already see that it does actually seem to work, now when I add the drop of oil to the pallet stone it stays on the stone, before no matter how careful I was adding it as soon as it hit the stone it would start running down the side of the stone.

 

Are you applying the epilame to the entire pallet or just the stones?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For ease of application I just drop the pallet onto the mesh and turn the bottle upside down for 30 seconds as per the instructions.

Then once it's dried I just use an EVEFLEX Rubber abrasive stick to clean it off the pivots.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Paul80 said:

For ease of application I just drop the pallet onto the mesh and turn the bottle upside down for 30 seconds as per the instructions.

Then once it's dried I just use an EVEFLEX Rubber abrasive stick to clean it off the pivots.

Sounds like a very practical approach. Thanks for sharing! Just to make sure, have you ensured that all FixoDrop is really removed from the pivots? The reason I'm asking is that I read somewhere that FixoDrop can survive several service cycles. Or perhaps that was before modern cleaning liquids!?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be honest nope, not sure how I could check that it's been removed or not as the coating seems invisible, to my eyes at least, so it might be all gone or it's still there and I can't see it.

Any thoughts on how I can check it is actually removed by my method. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Similar Content

  • Recently Browsing

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Picking up this side-tracked post again as I just removed a balance staff of a 1920's Omega (35,5L-T1) I was impressed by the way @Delgetti had his setup when he had to change out a balance-staff (https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/28854-new-balance-staff-not-riveting-to-balance/page/2/#comment-244054 Not only that, but also the idea of removing the seat first before punching the staff out from the seat-side, avoiding the whole discussion of the rivet yes/no enlarging the hole. I didn't have the fancy clamps & tools Delgetti has, so I used my screw-head polishing tool. Initially I used #1500 grit diamond paste on the steel wheel, which kinda worked, but very slow. I changed to #800 grit diamond, which worked better, but still slow. Then I glued #240 sanding paper to the steel disk; That worked and with the disk hand-driven. Once close to the balance wheel, I took the sanding paper off and continued with #800 diamond paste. One can only do this when the balance wheel sits true on the staff and it has no "wobble". I went on grinding until I saw some diamond paste on the rim of the balance wheel. This was as far as I could grind and it seemed that there wasn't much left of the seat. Carefully, with my staking set, I knocked the staff out. Turns out that the thickness of the seat left, now a small ring, was only 0.1mm. The balance wheel hole is in perfect shape and no damage done to the wheel at all. Of course, if the wheel has a "wobble" or isn't seated true on the balance staff, you can't get as close and there will be more left of the seat. In my case, it worked perfect 🙂 Very happy how this worked for me 😊  
    • As is tradition, one step forward, two steps back. Got the board populated and soldered into place without any issues.   But no hum. So I started testing the coils with an ohmmeter. I got 5.84k ohms across D1 (from red to red in the picture below), which is as expected. But I'm getting an open circuit for the other drive coil and feedback coil, D2 and F1 (from green to each of the two yellows).   Since the movement was working with my breadboard setup, it implies I somehow broke the connection between the coils and the solder lugs. They're all the way at the bottom of the lugs, but maybe the heat migrated down and broke the connections? I guess it's possible it happened while cleaning the flux off, but I used a soft artist's brush and isopropyl alcohol. I did a lot of high magnification examination, and I don't see any issues, but let me know if you see anything I missed or if you can think of anything else I should check.
    • 1947 NOS Ambassador 'C'. Actually, the case came without the movement so the movement isn't NOS, but she sure is pretty.
    • Hi attached is the AS 20XX. Service sheet although there is no 2063 mentioned it may be of some use to you AS_AS 2060,1,2,6,4,6.pdf
    • one of the problems we have is visible versus invisible. For instance millennium disulfide another high pressure lubricant black in color. I was told by somebody worked for the Boeing company that they had a piston like device somewhere that has eight call it around it to grab it so it has to slide and in the collet has to grab. But if somebody puts that type of dry grease on where grease with that in it it embeds itself basically in the metal and they have to throw the whole part away they get use it all. So I suspect on all the dry powdery lubricants that they will go into all the basically microscopic cracks and crannies of the metaland that's where it is visually at least until you scrub it off your visually going to see it which is good because you want your lubrication the stay word is. But I'm sure it doesn't last forever on the metal it's just a really nice lubrication  
×
×
  • Create New...